Self Check-In Machines
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Self Check-In Machines
The airline I am working for is pushing the self-checkin at the moment. Which means 40% of all passengers HAVE TO be checked-in at those machines.
Which means check in staff is not allowed to check in any passengers that did not try the machine first. (including business class passengers)
What would you think if you went to a check-in desk and were told that you have to try the machine first?
We have quite some discussions among the staff about this (some think it is great, some think it is rude) but i would like to know what passengers think about this approach.
Which means check in staff is not allowed to check in any passengers that did not try the machine first. (including business class passengers)
What would you think if you went to a check-in desk and were told that you have to try the machine first?
We have quite some discussions among the staff about this (some think it is great, some think it is rude) but i would like to know what passengers think about this approach.
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What you often find in the States are a long bank of checkin computers where the checkin desks used to be. Behind the line of computers you get one or two "roving" employees to help the customers with problems. I think I am extremely computer literate but can still have stupid brain-fart problems with these machines, so I expect less computer literate people might have too. So although these machines are brilliant, you need humans to help out. They also have unattended computers dotted around the area for people with hand luggage to use. Look at the way Southwest does it at places like LAX, they know how to treat their passengers well, just copy them.
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Its all in the approach! I personally prefer the human touch but at the same time the self service thingys are the way of the future whether we like it or not. The big problem is with human nature, people dont like trying new things so if we are to get people to use the machines we will literally have to force them into trying it. Eventually the customer will realise the benefits and wont be afraid of it anymore. If I were you I would encourage passengers to use the machines as much as possible, Self Service Machines are still a new thing but give it another few years and you will be surprised if people actually approach a checkin desk for anything other than to drop a bag off!!!
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Bloody brilliant idea. BA self-check in is brilliant - especially if you have your executive card with you! Best self check in I have ever had was at San Diego with NorthWest. I had WAAAAYYYY to much baggage but a combo of the great system and a very kind employee meant the whole process took less than 1 minuite. Which was better than the baggage arrival at LGW which took 1.5 hours....
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Self Check-in Machines
I came through CDG 2B for BA flight to BHX this morning for first time in about 12 months. BA seems to be relying almost exclusively on the machines now rather than traditional desks. A row of about 10 or 12 machines was monitored by one (very nice) BA lady with one other on a single ticket/enquiry desk nearby. Guess you can also check-in traditionally at the gate (one very bored lass at gate B33 check-in desk) but as the Gendarmes aren't inclined to let you through passport control without a boarding card, I'm not sure how the system copes with pax's who can't or won't use the machines.
Personally I like the machines & use them whenever I can particularly as they allow you to beat the normal check-in queues such as the Swiss desks @ Zurich, which seem to have perpetually long, slow queues.
Personally I like the machines & use them whenever I can particularly as they allow you to beat the normal check-in queues such as the Swiss desks @ Zurich, which seem to have perpetually long, slow queues.
However, checking in with America West in San Diego when you're connecting to BA 288 from Phoenix to Heathrow sends the machine into a wobbly. So when you've done that, you don't waste your energy the next time you arrive there to do the trip.
Personally, I prefer the nice, friendly, check in staff that BA have, rather than a bl**dy machine. But maybe the Gold card makes a difference..
Personally, I prefer the nice, friendly, check in staff that BA have, rather than a bl**dy machine. But maybe the Gold card makes a difference..
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The machine is designed to do 'a wobbly' as you have an international segment. Was talking to a LAX gate agent recently who said that they hope to have them all linked up with Immigration's passport/fingerprint/photo machines, so when you check yourself out of the US you will get your international boarding card.
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I love the machines. LH were the first ones, years ago, for domestic flights out of FRA. Now there are banks of them everywhere, including some that weigh your luggage and print the tags. You put them on yourself and put the luggage on the belt. (LH was even talking about sending a bar code to your cell phone for check-in and getting rid of paper completely somewhere around 2000. Not sure where that stands)
The U.S. was a late adopter. On the other hand, now you can check in online for most U.S. airlines, which I love even more. I travel mostly with cabin luggage only, so this is brilliant. The downside is that if there is a problem (say, a one-way first class ticket bought the same day that flags you as a potential security risk) you have to get in line - and the lines seem longer now that they cut down on staff. But by and large, I really like the machines/online check in.
Some of the machines now even read your passport, so you can check in on international flights. Memory is blurred, but I believe it was Continental that allowed that? Not sure
Happy flying
The U.S. was a late adopter. On the other hand, now you can check in online for most U.S. airlines, which I love even more. I travel mostly with cabin luggage only, so this is brilliant. The downside is that if there is a problem (say, a one-way first class ticket bought the same day that flags you as a potential security risk) you have to get in line - and the lines seem longer now that they cut down on staff. But by and large, I really like the machines/online check in.
Some of the machines now even read your passport, so you can check in on international flights. Memory is blurred, but I believe it was Continental that allowed that? Not sure
Happy flying
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I'm biding my time. The days of Self Service kiosks and On-Line Check In are numbered - there will be a major incident arising one day from the airlines' naiivety in believing that (a) a passenger wouldn't dare try to check in someone else (b) a passenger wouldn't dare check in baggage for a flight on which he wasn't going to travel and (c) that iris scanning technology is foolproof (it isn't)!!!
When (and I say when not if) something goes wrong, humankind are going to be recruited by the aviation world as never before!!!
When (and I say when not if) something goes wrong, humankind are going to be recruited by the aviation world as never before!!!
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Originally Posted by bealine
(a) a passenger wouldn't dare try to check in someone else
Originally Posted by bealine
(b) a passenger wouldn't dare check in baggage for a flight on which he wasn't going to travel
Originally Posted by bealine
(c) that iris scanning technology is foolproof (it isn't)!!!
irrelevant for this specific discussion. Check-in is before ID check. Relevant if anybody ever replaces in-person security with iris scanning only, which I find unlikely
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Flying Consultant - with respect
All this self-service rubbish was around in the late 1960's (without computers) at Gatwick. Passengers even pulled off their own (non-automated) baggage tags and tagged their own bags before dropping them on a conveyor! What immediately halted the concept was the hijackings of the early 1970's!!!
Ryanair and EasyJet have only gained strength because of 09/11. their meteoric ascendency without this disaster would not have happened - and with it the desire to run headlong along the automation route without thinking of the real consequences!!!
You pick holes in my arguments - (a) I can't say a lot about, except that security then don't have a clue about who is running around airside and what they're up to (b) Baggage regularly travels on some airlines (mainly US carriers) when the passenger has failed to turn up at the gate - happens every other week here at Gatwick, so who are you kidding??? (c) Plans are afoot (and trials at Heathrow are beginning with airport staff) to enable "FastTrack" Iris scanning for Elite Frequent Flyers where security personnel would no longer be checking identity - so not irrelevant, just a few years away!!!
You believe what you want - the next hijacking or major incident (and most airlines have already let their guards down) will put self service machines firmly back in the warehouses!!!
All this self-service rubbish was around in the late 1960's (without computers) at Gatwick. Passengers even pulled off their own (non-automated) baggage tags and tagged their own bags before dropping them on a conveyor! What immediately halted the concept was the hijackings of the early 1970's!!!
Ryanair and EasyJet have only gained strength because of 09/11. their meteoric ascendency without this disaster would not have happened - and with it the desire to run headlong along the automation route without thinking of the real consequences!!!
You pick holes in my arguments - (a) I can't say a lot about, except that security then don't have a clue about who is running around airside and what they're up to (b) Baggage regularly travels on some airlines (mainly US carriers) when the passenger has failed to turn up at the gate - happens every other week here at Gatwick, so who are you kidding??? (c) Plans are afoot (and trials at Heathrow are beginning with airport staff) to enable "FastTrack" Iris scanning for Elite Frequent Flyers where security personnel would no longer be checking identity - so not irrelevant, just a few years away!!!
You believe what you want - the next hijacking or major incident (and most airlines have already let their guards down) will put self service machines firmly back in the warehouses!!!
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Interesting about the Iris scan, that would indeed worry me. But I fail to see what it has to do with the check-in machines. Presumably somebody can check in with a check-in agent and still send somebody else to the gate, yesno? Only ID check at security can prevent that.
As for (b), I presume you refer to suitcases travelling alone before the passenger has travelled, not stray luggage that has to be sent after the traveller because somebody messed up or connection times were to short. Also interesting but not suprising. And nothing a check-in agent can do against somebody who checks-in luggage and then does not show up.
Bottom-line for me: There is no security difference between a check-in agent and a machine. The agent would take the luggage and check it in. Same as the machine. Whether or not that person, a different person, or no person shows up at the gate is not in the hands of the check-in agent. Pretending a check-in agent is more secure than a machine is just using the fear of travelers to secure jobs. Rather have more, better paid and trained people at security screening so it is better and faster instead of adding folks at the check-in
As for (b), I presume you refer to suitcases travelling alone before the passenger has travelled, not stray luggage that has to be sent after the traveller because somebody messed up or connection times were to short. Also interesting but not suprising. And nothing a check-in agent can do against somebody who checks-in luggage and then does not show up.
Bottom-line for me: There is no security difference between a check-in agent and a machine. The agent would take the luggage and check it in. Same as the machine. Whether or not that person, a different person, or no person shows up at the gate is not in the hands of the check-in agent. Pretending a check-in agent is more secure than a machine is just using the fear of travelers to secure jobs. Rather have more, better paid and trained people at security screening so it is better and faster instead of adding folks at the check-in
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The essential difference for me, check-in agent vs machine, is the security element. You perceive no difference, yet I do!
The check-in agent is better equipped, and better able to identify a passenger who is unfit to fly through illness, drink, drugs or underlying mental impairment. A harrassed (and often bullied) Gate Team pressed by their managers to achieve an on-time departure at all costs may very easily fail to spot (or choose to fail to spot) a passenger who could well be a hazard to the safety of the flight!
Security staff are also not solely to be relied upon in this regard - if you observe the average security firm in this country (Britain) (whether airport related or not) the majority of security staff are middle-aged ex-servicemen or elderly people with a good employment record (but just looking to fill the gap between redundancy from their last job and retirement!) The airport security guys are used to being ridiculed by the airline management if they do bring something to attention and are more being used to look pretty and instil some confidence into the travelling public than anything else!!! (But, of course, first and foremost they are to look after the security of the airport shops!!!)
Yes - BTW - I am referring to bags travelling ahead of the passenger. US carriers at Gatwick are doing this on a regular basis, both inbound and outbound!!! I am aware of this because of our connecting passengers where, very often, we receive the bags but the passenger hasn't actually travelled!!! On talking to their baggage agents, it transpires it is a regular occurrence and, in any case, it is perfectly permissible for US carriers to allow this for "Stand By" pax - the FAA and "Homeland Security" doesn't seem to have an issue with this!!!
Now - what I say about self-service is only my opinion, and your opinion is your own! Only time will tell which of us is right!!!
The check-in agent is better equipped, and better able to identify a passenger who is unfit to fly through illness, drink, drugs or underlying mental impairment. A harrassed (and often bullied) Gate Team pressed by their managers to achieve an on-time departure at all costs may very easily fail to spot (or choose to fail to spot) a passenger who could well be a hazard to the safety of the flight!
Security staff are also not solely to be relied upon in this regard - if you observe the average security firm in this country (Britain) (whether airport related or not) the majority of security staff are middle-aged ex-servicemen or elderly people with a good employment record (but just looking to fill the gap between redundancy from their last job and retirement!) The airport security guys are used to being ridiculed by the airline management if they do bring something to attention and are more being used to look pretty and instil some confidence into the travelling public than anything else!!! (But, of course, first and foremost they are to look after the security of the airport shops!!!)
Yes - BTW - I am referring to bags travelling ahead of the passenger. US carriers at Gatwick are doing this on a regular basis, both inbound and outbound!!! I am aware of this because of our connecting passengers where, very often, we receive the bags but the passenger hasn't actually travelled!!! On talking to their baggage agents, it transpires it is a regular occurrence and, in any case, it is perfectly permissible for US carriers to allow this for "Stand By" pax - the FAA and "Homeland Security" doesn't seem to have an issue with this!!!
Now - what I say about self-service is only my opinion, and your opinion is your own! Only time will tell which of us is right!!!
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Internet check-in is also becoming increasingly common. Check in at home on the computer, select seat, print boarding pass. At the airport, straight through security to the gate. I think it's excellent - instead of having to arrive at the airport ages in advance to join the queue & hope there's still a halfway decent seat left, I can wake up in the morning knowing my seat & that I only have to arrive at the airport in time to clear security before final call.
As for security - isn't that what the security check is for - confirming passenger & ticket identity & ensuring safe & suitable to fly? If it's done properly, it doesn't need to be done twice, & if it does need to be done more than once, is twice enough? Why not 10 times, just to be sure? Let's have aisles & aisles of security checks between the entrance & the gate!
Judging by the number of fellow passengers I see clutching computer printed boarding cards, I'd say the average business traveller doesn't want to be bothered with check-in desks. Internet check-in or a self service kiosk is increasingly the norm. The desk will still exist, in smaller numbers, to deal with families, groups, and problems. But this really isn't new - BA, KLM, SAS & the like have had self service check-ins for years & they've always been popular. Now even Ryanair has heralded in a brave new world of self service!
I suppose only the charters will remain - how could anyone ever start a bucket & spade trip without a 2 hour wait at the airport check-in desk and the certain knowledge that any available seat will be a 4 hour exercise in pain management?!
As for security - isn't that what the security check is for - confirming passenger & ticket identity & ensuring safe & suitable to fly? If it's done properly, it doesn't need to be done twice, & if it does need to be done more than once, is twice enough? Why not 10 times, just to be sure? Let's have aisles & aisles of security checks between the entrance & the gate!
Judging by the number of fellow passengers I see clutching computer printed boarding cards, I'd say the average business traveller doesn't want to be bothered with check-in desks. Internet check-in or a self service kiosk is increasingly the norm. The desk will still exist, in smaller numbers, to deal with families, groups, and problems. But this really isn't new - BA, KLM, SAS & the like have had self service check-ins for years & they've always been popular. Now even Ryanair has heralded in a brave new world of self service!
I suppose only the charters will remain - how could anyone ever start a bucket & spade trip without a 2 hour wait at the airport check-in desk and the certain knowledge that any available seat will be a 4 hour exercise in pain management?!
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BEAline, I always enjoy your posts as you are incredibly informative and make a lot of sense, however, on this subject I feel you are perhaps over reacting...or are you just anti self service as it takes away jobs??? This would be an understandable assumption.
If the gate staff are doing their job and checking ID's against the boarding passes then there should be no problem with self service. A terrorist could still check in with a "human" and still get on the plane no problem what soever because a well trained terrorist will not show any signs of fear and will appear perfectly normal. They can also travel under assumed identities!!! And even if someone else did check in for the terrorist at the desk and handed over a boarding pass, it is still down to the gate agent to ensure that the person has valid photo ID at the gate, if that fails, then someone is not doing their job correctly!!!
If the gate staff are doing their job and checking ID's against the boarding passes then there should be no problem with self service. A terrorist could still check in with a "human" and still get on the plane no problem what soever because a well trained terrorist will not show any signs of fear and will appear perfectly normal. They can also travel under assumed identities!!! And even if someone else did check in for the terrorist at the desk and handed over a boarding pass, it is still down to the gate agent to ensure that the person has valid photo ID at the gate, if that fails, then someone is not doing their job correctly!!!
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If the gate staff are doing their job and checking ID's against the boarding passes then there should be no problem with self service.
Even at BA, we are put under a lot of pressure to get flights away on time - especially since this bluddy EU compensation ruling! I have been guilty on a few occasions of not checking ID and, let's face it, how often are you asked for an ID on a British Airways Domestic Service???
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There is no requirement for ID checks at the gate on a domestic service in the UK. A check in agent is far more efficent at utilising their "sixth sense" than a machine. When was the last time a machine apprehended a suspicious pax?
I do not like self service machines and agree with Bealine that the time will come when real people are required.
I do not like self service machines and agree with Bealine that the time will come when real people are required.
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great things
In general I like having access to these machines, alot of my travel is withing europe on SAS, so with just handbagage, my frequent flyer card, and the express security lane it gets me, I can move from the ticketing all to the departure area in under 10 minutes.
I had to fly AF last week, and tried to use their machines, The line at ARN for my flight to CDG was huge, and I have no status with skyteam anymore, so i tried the ticketing machine to get through quicker, the damn thing ate my ticket... The hovering agent opened the machine, and fished it out, then pointed me towards the buiness class check-in. Brilliant stuff. Still a 10 minute checking instead of the 30 minutes it looked like the line would take.
I had to fly AF last week, and tried to use their machines, The line at ARN for my flight to CDG was huge, and I have no status with skyteam anymore, so i tried the ticketing machine to get through quicker, the damn thing ate my ticket... The hovering agent opened the machine, and fished it out, then pointed me towards the buiness class check-in. Brilliant stuff. Still a 10 minute checking instead of the 30 minutes it looked like the line would take.
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Bealine, I too have worked on the ground and I too must admit that I am sure I have forgotten to check ID's from time to time...however, its just one of those grey areas. The security element of our job is to check ID's and ask security questions...it indemnifies us. What if the pilot "forgot" to lock the flight deck door, or "forgot" to select an all important safety related switch in the flight deck (dont you love my technical terms!?!?!)!!
All it takes is for one situation to occur and the blame will not be placed on the Self Service machine but on the gate agent who did not do their job because they were busy concentrating on getting the flight out on time instead of their number one priority of concentrating on safety and security!!!
Its all about priorities and I dont think anyone could reprimand you for being thorough even here in BA. Im sure you remember a number of years ago the incident of the BAC1-11 that blew a flight deck window and had its captain partially sucked out the window. Well this was down to a less than thorough engineer who in a rush to dispatch the aircraft on time did not place the correct bolts into the window frame. Did the person who was pushing him for punctuality get the blame??? No, the poor engineer did.
Apologies for bad spelling!!!
All it takes is for one situation to occur and the blame will not be placed on the Self Service machine but on the gate agent who did not do their job because they were busy concentrating on getting the flight out on time instead of their number one priority of concentrating on safety and security!!!
Its all about priorities and I dont think anyone could reprimand you for being thorough even here in BA. Im sure you remember a number of years ago the incident of the BAC1-11 that blew a flight deck window and had its captain partially sucked out the window. Well this was down to a less than thorough engineer who in a rush to dispatch the aircraft on time did not place the correct bolts into the window frame. Did the person who was pushing him for punctuality get the blame??? No, the poor engineer did.
Apologies for bad spelling!!!
Last edited by apaddyinuk; 27th Jan 2006 at 06:41.