Self Check-In Machines

[bealine]

Well ay my airline you still are security profiled whether you check in using the kiosk or an agent. They sort out the passport/visa stuff.

Are you 100% certain??? Doesn't the odd one or two slip the net??? I'll bet you don't do 100% security profiling - no one does!!!

If you are as thorough as you claim, then your airline must be making losses because your costs would be astronomical compared to that of your competitors!!! Self-service machines are there to cut staff numbers - not increase the bureacracy of 100% security profiling!!!

[Final 3 Greens]

Paddy

"If perhaps the checkin agent walked over to the self service machine with you, talked you through the process and then tagged your luggage up for you, would you be happy???"

On a C/J ticket, no. On a discounted Y, I'd already be using the machine.

You don't seem to be able to understand the difference in expectations between the classes. On a cheap Y ticket I expect safe carriage from A-B and cooperate to keep costs low, but on a C/J ticket, I expect all the bells and whistles, which is why I've paid 350-400% more and if the airline expect me to be part of their economy drive, I would just consider them to be barking mad.

[striparella]

Originally Posted by bealine

Are you 100% certain??? Doesn't the odd one or two slip the net??? I'll bet you don't do 100% security profiling - no one does!!!
If you are as thorough as you claim, then your airline must be making losses because your costs would be astronomical compared to that of your competitors!!! Self-service machines are there to cut staff numbers - not increase the bureacracy of 100% security profiling!!!

You're profiled at check in and the gates.

No-one slips the net believe me - especially at the gates - you HAVE to stop for the security. That is how we achieve 100% security. It pisses passengers off, they have to get all their documents out, answer the questions - and OH MY GOD GET AN E-TICKET RECEIPT!

But we do it 100% for every flight. Especially some flights my airline does - we'd get in big trouble if we didn't profile everyone.

You're thinking along the wrong and easy lines. Self Check In Machines aren't to get rid of staff and save costs at my airline - they've not replaced the agents with machines - there's still the same number of check in desks and staff to man them before the kiosks turned up.

Self check in machines are all about getting the passenger involved with the process, empowerment as it were and maybe just another 'gimmick' - giving the passenger something to remember.

If anything these machines create more work at the gate like i said as passengers tend to think they don't need to drop their 15kg bag off. And believe it or not, check in staff don't just do check in - they have other roles as well! Just because a couple of kiosks turn up doesn't mean staff are axed, you've got it all wrong. It's not quite the industrial revolution you're making it out to be!

And FYI my airline is making a healthy profit.

[10secondsurvey]

Self check in is just dandy, if you always fly the same airline, with only hand baggage, and are not doing numerous international sectors with transfers.

In my experience, with complex flight routings, self check in is a complete pile of poo, as invariably it cannot cope with different seating arrangements from different airlines, and baggage limits, transfers etc...I could go on.

One thing that does hack me off is this, the airlines (BMI are you listening?) promote the idea of self check in as a way of avoiding queues. With BMI they don't have enough machines so, at LHR and EDI amongst others, you now have to join the queue to self check in.

I also strongly agree with previous concerns regarding security checks/screening. It is in a completely different league to lie to a machine compared with telling porkies to a human check in agent. A human check in agent may just spot the odd behaviour or inconsistent responses/attitude which a machine never will. And yes I know that is what security is for, but security is all about layers, and the more you have the more difficult it is for someone to breach completely, and besides usually all security staff do to me in airports (especially LHR!) is grunt. As someone has rightly said, the **** will hit the fan on this one sometime soon.

Just one final thought on jobs; are the check in staff who push you to use the machines for check-in the avaiation equivalent of turkeys voting for christmas. "please use the machines - I no longer want to have a career!"

[lexxity]

Just one final thought on jobs; are the check in staff who push you to use the machines for check-in the avaiation equivalent of turkeys voting for christmas. "please use the machines - I no longer want to have a career!"

No they are made by management to ask you to use the machines and yes, it is checked that you are bring asked.

[bealine]

stiparella - I don't mean to be cruel or unkind here, but I think you are very naiive if you believe that the machines aren't there to cut staff!!! I laughed my head off at the bit about "getting the passengers involved in the process!" - the best bit of marketing management bull5hit so far this century!!!

If your airline isn't reducing headcount now, then it won't be long in coming - of course, they may not make redundancies, but here at British Airways they just haven't replaced people who have left or gone to join other departments!!! Our managers are planning to make this the last year that we employ summer "temps" and, yet again, they are hoping large chunks of the work-force can be persuaded to take a period of "unpaid leave" - all thanks to self-service!!! Go to Gatwick on a late afternoon now, and all the live human-being check-in is all condensed into 5 or 6 desks only! Our managers now have the brainwave that if our passengers get pi55ed off with queueing, they'll use the seslf-service any way!!! So, poor Final 3 Greens will end up having to wait ages or capitulate - because there are no managers around to handle his complaints, and a letter to Customer Relations will only generate a standard reply!!!

striparella - I am intrigued as to which airline you work for? Emirates and Etihad are the only carriers currently making "healthy" profits. BA, VS and the other European "heritage" carriers are in profit, but it will be a couple of years before either of us are in a healthy situation (indeed, BA is very shaky if the black-hole in the pension fund is legally considered a "debt" - which the pilots' union BALPA is currently trying to establish!). Emirates and Eitihad are in a healthy situation, all the US carriers are still making losses, although Continental is about to go "into the black" for the first time since 09/11/.

This leaves the low-cost operators, none of whom yet fly to the USA (which would be the reason for 100% screening and checking return booking status) and the charterers (once again who have no requirement for 100% checks).

So, striparella, give us a clue???

[bealine]

One more reason against the great self-service fiasco:



http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5237514

[TightSlot]

I'm getting a dead link there bealine

[bealine]

Edited - this link should work:

One more reason against the great self-service fiasco:



http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5237514

[PAXboy]

You may be amused by this from a friend of mine. She had to do LHR ~ HEL (within the past two weeks) and had to use BA as it was a late booking and Finnair (her usual choice for this route) was now more expensive. Prior to departure, the BA computer invited her to do OLCI but then refused all attempts to do so ...

BA are really getting up my nose with their so called online check in (among other things ...). On the way out, not only was I not able to check in online, in spite of their sending me repeated emails urging me to do so - for some reason the website wouldn't let me. Then when I got to the airport, it wouldn't even let me check in at the self service desks, so I had to stand in line for ages behind large families and groups. Then no explanation as to why the system kept rejecting my booking, positively surly they were!

Prior to her return a week later ...

Now I've tried to check in online again for the flight back tomorrow, only to find that the drop down menu I can use to check in seems to feature every airport BA fly from ... except Helsinki! Go figure ....

I knew in my heart it would be endless source of frustration flying BA, but Finnair was much more expensive, plus they don't do as many flights from London now as they used to. A friend here told me that this is because they have now started to focus on the Far East much more, and apparently Helsinki is rapidly becoming the first choice arrival point in Europe for those coming from Japan and China. Interesting!

Why do BA continue to be so very cr@p, though??? It's not just that they are rubbish, but that they treat you like rubbish when something goes wrong, most often through their fault! Though other people have had different experiences - my Canadian friends always seem to get treated really nicely when flying from Canada and have been upgraded twice.

I can just hear the BA 'managers' saying, "But no one told us that there were problems ..." I have become used to the BA system inviting OLCI for a flight were no self-serve machine exists. They have not bothered to make the system check to see if your departing field has machines or not! If you follow the invitation to OLCI ... you then find that you cannot do so for that flight from that field (in thsi case - LTN for IOM). So they show themselves up before you even reach the airport!

[Final 3 Greens]

Bealine

"So, poor Final 3 Greens will end up having to wait ages or capitulate - because there are no managers around to handle his complaints, and a letter to Customer Relations will only generate a standard reply!!!"

Well, it won't happen with your mob, as I've been using OLCI without issues since it came in, unlike Paxboy's friend. OLCI adds value to the service and, when I can't fly Skyteam (who look after me very well), BA will win if they have a presence on the route purely because of the advantages of OLCI. On the other hand, when the others catch up on OLCI, it will no longer be differentiation and if BA wish to piss me off, well there are other options...

I used Air Berlin for the first time over the weekend and was very impressed by their service offering.

[pax2908]

I am sorry I have not read all the answers (yet). While I understand that the job (check-in agent) is a difficult and not always pleasant one (I would not be able to do this) and sometimes you may think you would like to do something different... well I would be very disappointed if this will go away and a machine will take your place. Incidentally I consider that one of the big advantages of my preferred airline, is the human presence of their check-in staff (the "competitors" seem to have opted for self check-in, not for me thanks).

[Red Snake]

Something doesn't work with Helsinki and online check-in. It's not just BA, KLM is the same. Online check-in to almost anywhere with KLM out of BRS through AMS, but just try it to HEL! And it doesn't tell you it's not available, it just doesn't work.

Anyone know why?

[FlyingConsultant]

On a cheap Y ticket I expect safe carriage from A-B and cooperate to keep costs low, but on a C/J ticket, I expect all the bells and whistles,

Interesting to see a very different perspective form my own.
All I want - on any ticket - is not to sit around at the airport for more than I have to. Anything that speeds up the process while providing security is fine for me. [1]
Machines, and especially online check-in, speed up the process for most of my trips [with the exception, as somebody mentioned, for international multi-legs].
And I mentioned my perspective on security before - the security checkpoint is good enough if done correctly. Spend the money there and not for check-in agents. It's just an opinion, but it is mine
FC
[1] I share your opinion once I am on the plane. If i am in business or first, I damn well want great service for the money my clients pay!

[bealine]

And I mentioned my perspective on security before - the security checkpoint is good enough if done correctly.

...........and, at the moment, we witness at least 10 major f*** ups by Central Security daily!!!

.....Pax arrive at the gatewith no boarding pass because they're not checked in!

.....Pax sitting at the gate happily waiting for Heathrow flights because security haven't red the Boarding Pass properly.

etc etc.

Conversely, because I don't want to be cruel, we have some very good staff who will seek me out, as an airline staff member, to alert me if a passenger in the bar has been imbibing too freely or if a passenger is carrying something which is a "grey area" in the Hazardous Goods list!!!

Unfortunately, it's the consistency of security staff that's the problem - and the fact they are not directly employed by the airline. Although I, and my colleagues, are called "Customer Service", our first priority is the safety, security and well being of the majority of our passengers and our fellow airline employees. Responsibility for the individual passenger comes second!!!

BAA security's forst responsibility is to the Retail Shops!!!

I'm glad you have such confidence in security, Flying Consultant!!!

[Final 3 Greens]

Flying Consultant

You have misinterpreted what I said, since being turned away from the agent and redirected to the machine would add time too.

Note my comments about BA OLCI.

[FlyingConsultant]

Originally Posted by Final 3 Greens

You have misinterpreted what I said, since being turned away from the agent and redirected to the machine would add time too.

True. Sorry.

[Final 3 Greens]

No sweat, like you I try and minimize travelling time, but reflect on the old saying that "if you have time to spare, go by air"

[Carry0nLuggage]

SSCI is about the only reason I still bother with my BA Executive Club card*. It means I get through check much quicker and on the rare occaisions I have baggage to check in, I get rid of it sooner. At LGW at least, I've found the agents at the fast drop desk to be very helpful indeed.
OLCI? For Moday morning flights, fuggedaboudid. If I waited to connect to that part of BA's site I'd miss my flight. Even if I tried the night before.
* Cheapskate employer means miles say frequent flier, points say not.

[TwinAisle]

Funny thing, OLCI. I have always found BA's to be very good, and generally quirk free. CX's is odd, though. Just done a BKK-HKG-LAX, couldn't check in on line using the BKK-HKG flight number - "no such sector". Managed it with the second (HKG-LAX) flight number, which also let me check in the first sector, which it had suddenly found existed.....

As for check in terminals.... can someone ask the people who write the software for the US ones to have another go at it? Why does it ask me every question in Christendom, including choosing my seat, before it decides that I am a European and therefore have to queue up to see an agent? Couldn't they put a note on them saying "US pax only?"

/spleen vent.....

TA