Check-in Desk Scales?
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
Originally Posted by PVGSLF
Just seen another thread about Ryan air cracking down on check-in staff being generous with baggage allowances... So come on MOL, lets see current and valid calibration certificates posted next to the scales. And let's see Trading Standards taking a regular interest in there accuracy.
One of things that got me was the question regarding check-in scales. I checked in a Stanstead to fly to Gerona as I have a property nearby. My bag weighed in at 11kg (check-in) and was too large to have as carry-on, so it put in the hold. No problems.
Went to Gerona for about 10 days and left half the contents of my hold lugauge at my place and went back to the airport (Gerona) to check-in to fly home. Guess what my bag weighed on the scales?? Yeap 11kgs.
NO WAY was my bag that heavy. Thankfully it was not over the limit they set (15kg) otherwise I would have refused to fly in protest. I did question it though with the Duty Manager there, who quite frankly couldn't give a **** about it. She just smiled at me and said with a thick Spanish accent. "English" From that point onwards, I knew that the scales were fiddled and I would rather walk than fly with FR again.
FE
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
I suppose if we really doubt the scales we could just turn up with a few litres of water and weigh those first... then either drink them or bin them!
I'm sure if the first set of scales were not accurate the check-in staff wouldn't mind me using another set.... but what if they all turned out to be innaccurate and i had just proved it?
Hmmm.... I'm travelling to PVG again at the end of the month and I fear Mrs PVG's London shopping spree is going to be pushing the weight limit, so watch out for the weary traveller carrying a few bottles of Highland spring
I'm sure if the first set of scales were not accurate the check-in staff wouldn't mind me using another set.... but what if they all turned out to be innaccurate and i had just proved it?
Hmmm.... I'm travelling to PVG again at the end of the month and I fear Mrs PVG's London shopping spree is going to be pushing the weight limit, so watch out for the weary traveller carrying a few bottles of Highland spring
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
At BA, our managers would love us to crack down on excess baggage and charge for every solitary kilo!!!
Fortunately, most of us at GatQuick tend to allow a discretionary excess. (I allow up to 7kgs over the allowance before thinking about kicking in charges).
It's also not worth the airlines' while to collect charges lower than GBP40.00 due to the administrative costs involved so, by ignoring the management's instructions to charge for every kilo, I'm actually doing my company a huge favour, and "enhancing" airline / customer relations!!!
If you know you're going to have excess before you travel, BA (and other airlines will follow) will shortly allow you to pre-pay by credit / debit card on-line. In return, the excess rate will be reduced by a significant amount (50% is being discussed at present), to reflect the easier administration and quicker transaction times.
Fortunately, most of us at GatQuick tend to allow a discretionary excess. (I allow up to 7kgs over the allowance before thinking about kicking in charges).
It's also not worth the airlines' while to collect charges lower than GBP40.00 due to the administrative costs involved so, by ignoring the management's instructions to charge for every kilo, I'm actually doing my company a huge favour, and "enhancing" airline / customer relations!!!
If you know you're going to have excess before you travel, BA (and other airlines will follow) will shortly allow you to pre-pay by credit / debit card on-line. In return, the excess rate will be reduced by a significant amount (50% is being discussed at present), to reflect the easier administration and quicker transaction times.
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
The old line about excess baggage costing more to carry is a bit of a white lie too.
Sure if ALL pax had excess baggage then yes more fuel would be required to carry it all, however on 90% of flights that isn't the case (excuse the pun). Those that have little or no bags normally off set the ones that do have excess - but the airlines will not let you pool your baggage with total strangers, as they would not be able to make more money out of you then.
Most short haul flights - especially on the lo-co's don't have that much cargo, if any either so the a/c is normally nowhere near close to any of it's max weights - so all that weight it could carry is going spare anyway.
There are exceptions to this though where flights are weight restricted etc., but the passenger at check-in would never know what flights were or were not weight restricted, so the excess bagagge rule applies across the board.
Sure if ALL pax had excess baggage then yes more fuel would be required to carry it all, however on 90% of flights that isn't the case (excuse the pun). Those that have little or no bags normally off set the ones that do have excess - but the airlines will not let you pool your baggage with total strangers, as they would not be able to make more money out of you then.
Most short haul flights - especially on the lo-co's don't have that much cargo, if any either so the a/c is normally nowhere near close to any of it's max weights - so all that weight it could carry is going spare anyway.
There are exceptions to this though where flights are weight restricted etc., but the passenger at check-in would never know what flights were or were not weight restricted, so the excess bagagge rule applies across the board.
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
What a load of bollo*ks Leezyjet! The aircraft uses extra fuel for every single thing we carry that isn't needed - even sugar sachets. Much of our profits come from excess baggage which we are entitled to charge for.
Just because pax a decides not to carry any baggage, this does not entitle pax b to double his baggage allowance (unless pax a and pax b share the same booking reference).
You cannot have it all ways - Low Fares = More Vigilance on Baggage Charges.
Just because pax a decides not to carry any baggage, this does not entitle pax b to double his baggage allowance (unless pax a and pax b share the same booking reference).
You cannot have it all ways - Low Fares = More Vigilance on Baggage Charges.
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
What a load of bollo*ks Leezyjet!
The flight is planned on estimated weights, and f/plan is produced on those estimates. When the flight closes out there are not many instances where crew will opt to take less fuel than the f/plan says just because the weight was a few hundred kgs lower than estimated. Most f/crew I've sent on the way will always take what has been planned even if the weight did drop off as they would rather have the extra. Out of all the short haul flights I've sent out, it's only on a very small % that the weight goes above the estimate, and when it does that isn't usually down to excess baggage, it's down to flights being combined and pax figs going up or extra cargo being carried. Excess baggage would normally only cause an increase if a majority of the pax had excess rather than the odd one or two.
So if pax A turns up with 50kgs excess bagagge, it isn't costing the airline any more to carry it as the fuel has already been planned in most instances and this is also offset by the fact that pax B,C,D or E might have less than the allowance anyway. I'm not saying it does entitle pax A to bring more and get away with it, I'm just saying that it's not actually costing the airlines any more to carry it when it's the odd 1 or 2 pax that bring it and it's mainly an extra way they can make money. A certain UK airline never used to charge excess until the last few of years when things have got a bit tight.
I'm mainly basing this on the 737 size a/c that is common among most lo-co's as this is what most of the discussion was about although I have only worked with the majors, not lo-co's but they are in an even better situation as they don't take cargo.
So not talking bollocks at all. After nearly 10 years of load planning flights, I have a good idea how the system works.
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
but the airlines will not let you pool your baggage with total strangers, as they would not be able to make more money out of you then.
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
Originally Posted by lexxity
No, actually I belive the CAA and DTR would have something to say about that.
If 100 pax travel and have 20kgs each, then thats 2000kgs of baggage that could potentially travel.
If 20 don't have bags then the weight would go down to 1600kgs of potential baggage however their allowance could go back into the pool for each flight.
Once that extra 400kgs is reached, then charge.
If set up and managed properly, it could work and it wouldn't be breaking any laws as the baggage would not actually be pooled with any specific person, it would just be taken off the running total of the flight
So thats why I say that it is just another way for the airlines to make money as there is an alternative, but non of them would ever do it.
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
And then Leezyjet there would be no consistency.
A passenger could travel 10 times a year and not have to pay excess. Imagine then trying to explain to them that on this one occasion they are going to have to pay because their fellow passengers all turned up with 20 KGS.
It will be interesting to see how the new Flybe policy will work
A passenger could travel 10 times a year and not have to pay excess. Imagine then trying to explain to them that on this one occasion they are going to have to pay because their fellow passengers all turned up with 20 KGS.
It will be interesting to see how the new Flybe policy will work
Hold baggage allowances have been increased to 25kgs per person. For those of you still wishing to take luggage in the hold of the aircraft we will be making a small charge. Simply book in your baggage and pay for it at the time of booking and pay just £2 per bag per flight. Alternatively you can pay for your bags at the airport for a cost of £4 per bag per flight.
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
Originally Posted by Leezyjet
Those that have little or no bags normally off set the ones that do have excess - but the airlines will not let you pool your baggage with total strangers, as they would not be able to make more money out of you then.
Totally unworkable IMO.
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
Full Emergency
And then RyanAir would smile and say that of course you are entitled not to fly and thereby forfeit the payment for the flight. When people say of a company "Oh, they don't care." Bear in mind that FR really don't care!
Leezyjet
I think that Silverelise states clearly why it is unworkable. The admin load would be horrendous. Secondly, you would get many pax stating that this was not 'possible to arrange at check-in' as the web site states but a 'guarantee' of luggage to be carried! As you may have noticed, the IQ factor of today's pax would rule this out!!
otherwise I would have refused to fly in protest.
Leezyjet
If set up and managed properly, it could work and it wouldn't be breaking any laws as the baggage would not actually be pooled with any specific person, it would just be taken off the running total of the flight
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
Apologies for being thick, but I just don't get this line of argument? You purchase a ticket from an airline company that entitles you to a seat and a fixed amount of weight for baggage. If you want an enhanced seat, you pay for it: If you want to take additional baggage weight you pay for it. If you do not wish to pay for it, then do not take the extra weight. Airlines have a right, like any other business, to attempt to make the most profitable use of their assets. What I never understand is why airlines are expected to behave differently to other businesses with whom we all deal? There is another thread in this forum asking about how to best obtain an upgrade that hasn't been paid for: Here we have a proposal to share baggage weight with unknown third parties, apparently in the expectation that the airlines should be expected to connive in depriving themselves of revenue while simultaneously reducing the efficiency of their own check-in staff.
The waters always get muddied because there is a core of users in this forum who are very high mileage frequent flyers, who regularly travel a great deal in First & Business class. These people are absolutely entitled to expect enhanced services from airlines on the basis of their experience. Many of us however, do nothing like that kind of mileage, not even at a corporate level. So - we pay our money, we keep within the baggage weight, we sit in the seat assigned, in the class of travel paid for and then we get off at the other end - it really doesn't seem to be that complicated?
P.S. I'm sorry - I'm revising for the annual safety exam (SEP) and in a very bad mood!!!
P.P.S. Also - if the scales are mis-calibrated, then clearly that is a very bad thing: I'm now going to lie down for a bit
The waters always get muddied because there is a core of users in this forum who are very high mileage frequent flyers, who regularly travel a great deal in First & Business class. These people are absolutely entitled to expect enhanced services from airlines on the basis of their experience. Many of us however, do nothing like that kind of mileage, not even at a corporate level. So - we pay our money, we keep within the baggage weight, we sit in the seat assigned, in the class of travel paid for and then we get off at the other end - it really doesn't seem to be that complicated?
P.S. I'm sorry - I'm revising for the annual safety exam (SEP) and in a very bad mood!!!
P.P.S. Also - if the scales are mis-calibrated, then clearly that is a very bad thing: I'm now going to lie down for a bit
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
Originally Posted by TightSlot
P.P.S. Also - if the scales are mis-calibrated, then clearly that is a very bad thing: I'm now going to lie down for a bit[/SIZE]
If I need to take excess, I'll pay the price (whether that price is fair or not is a whole different topic), but I just want to be sure I'm being charged fairly.
From reading other threads recently, I gather there are a whole host of industry wide rules and regulations governing prices and upgrades that us SLF are unaware of. If these were made a little clearer, perhaps some peoples false expectations may be changed.
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Re: Check-in Desk Scales?
Originally Posted by TightSlot
What I never understand is why airlines are expected to behave differently to other businesses with whom we all deal?
Then there's all these strange procedures ... What's going to happen next? Where do I have to go? ... Am I going to die horribly in the next 30 minutes?
When they've got into that psychological frame of mind, and approach their journey with a mental "special" label attached to it, it's no surprise when they suddenly start demanding "special" treatment of one sort or another. Favours on x, y or z. Free upgrades. Extra baggage without charge. Etc., etc. I think that's why there's so many of these incessant demands that wouldn't be made of other businesses.
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Agreed, but in that case, why does easyJet have probably the easiest policy - if your bag fits the size, & you can lift it into the overhead locker, it can be carried!
As it is, I'm pretty sure our OLCI and Self Service customers are getting way over the 6kgs they are allowed, and some of our lockers are only plated to 22kg maximimum!!!
So, there is likely to ba a major, major incident before long with some luckless airline and overhead stowage - or has the CAA got the maximum permitted labels all wrong???
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Well, if something was dangerously wrong with the easyJet policy, I'm sure CAA SRG would have stopped it by now!
....explains why the CAA do nine-thenths of fanny adams about it!!!
http://www.ttd.org/Resolutions/Mar1998/no.9.htm
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/trans...ryon_8-19.html
http://www.arawak.net/pages/carry-on-bags.html
......shows the very real dangers of heavy cabin baggage
However, the CAA and the FAA are happy to sit on the fence for the time being!!!
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[quote]
What is the point of a CAA plate on overhead stowage bins telling you the "Maximum Permissible Weight" if you don't actually know what weight is going into your lockers because you allow your passengers to put what they likeup there!!!
[\quote]
Got to say - I have been wondering this for a while. Even if everyone stuck to their weight max (where applicable), but then adds the duty free shopping, the MPW for the bins could be exceeded.
I noticed that more and more airlines now insist that "heavy items" and specifically duty free booze be stored under the seat as they may cause injury when falling out. Now I would see bottles at more risk of falling out on opening as they are not well packed and most often round (good for rolling off the briefcase).
A far bigger worry however is indeed what happens when the MPW for the bin is significantly exceeded - I guess it could fall off completely, e.g. on a firm landing, and that would be nasty.
If you don't have a max weight per bag established, you don't have a means of monitoring weights. Bins (afaik) don't have built in scales... so that leaves you with an approximation - e.g. in that space, "normal" luggage would never exceed x kgs because you cannot squeeze it in.
Not a rule / defense I would want to rely on in a court.
Anyone with an engineering background who looks after cabin fixtures and can shed more light?
What is the point of a CAA plate on overhead stowage bins telling you the "Maximum Permissible Weight" if you don't actually know what weight is going into your lockers because you allow your passengers to put what they likeup there!!!
[\quote]
Got to say - I have been wondering this for a while. Even if everyone stuck to their weight max (where applicable), but then adds the duty free shopping, the MPW for the bins could be exceeded.
I noticed that more and more airlines now insist that "heavy items" and specifically duty free booze be stored under the seat as they may cause injury when falling out. Now I would see bottles at more risk of falling out on opening as they are not well packed and most often round (good for rolling off the briefcase).
A far bigger worry however is indeed what happens when the MPW for the bin is significantly exceeded - I guess it could fall off completely, e.g. on a firm landing, and that would be nasty.
If you don't have a max weight per bag established, you don't have a means of monitoring weights. Bins (afaik) don't have built in scales... so that leaves you with an approximation - e.g. in that space, "normal" luggage would never exceed x kgs because you cannot squeeze it in.
Not a rule / defense I would want to rely on in a court.
Anyone with an engineering background who looks after cabin fixtures and can shed more light?
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When stressing an aircraft we stress to a lot of loadcases not just too much weight but manoeuvres and various other stages of flight. So with regards to the amount of weight in the luggage bins, the danger of the whole bin coming off only come into play in extreme circumstances and not during reasonably normal flight operations (a firm landing in the aircraft during normal ops is very much reduced from what is actually accounted for or tested for during trials, I believe there is a video clip on the internet of a DC something during such trials that snaps the fuselage).
A lot of the discussion here it seems is coming from whether people are as special as they think they are. In general, no, each person has paid for a specified level of service and allowances, to exceed these knowingly is being pigheaded if you don't expect to pay for it. Otherwise pay up and get on with your life.
Back to the original question about scales, I checked two bags in one being 52 lbs and the other being 47 lbs, I was asked to move 2 lbs from one to the other to make them within limits. Fine, I pulled them off the scales and shifted 2 lbs from the heavier to the lighter. I put them back on the scales the first one weighed 51lbs and the second weighed 52 lbs! Somewhere in the minute it took to transfer the weight I had found an additional 4 lbs.
A lot of the discussion here it seems is coming from whether people are as special as they think they are. In general, no, each person has paid for a specified level of service and allowances, to exceed these knowingly is being pigheaded if you don't expect to pay for it. Otherwise pay up and get on with your life.
Back to the original question about scales, I checked two bags in one being 52 lbs and the other being 47 lbs, I was asked to move 2 lbs from one to the other to make them within limits. Fine, I pulled them off the scales and shifted 2 lbs from the heavier to the lighter. I put them back on the scales the first one weighed 51lbs and the second weighed 52 lbs! Somewhere in the minute it took to transfer the weight I had found an additional 4 lbs.