North West abuses PAX - can't believe it!
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North West abuses PAX - can't believe it!
I am at a loss where to turn, and so am looking for some help and advice.
I am an FAA Instrument Rated PPL, and enjoy flying a Cirrus around europe.
Last week I flew a new SR22 back from the factory near Duluth in the USA to London UK.
I took an Instructor that we use in the UK to the factory with me to recieve his CSIP (Cirrus Certified Instructor Program) training and accreditation.
On the last day my instructor was due to Fly Duluth - MSP and then back to Gatwick.
On the same Day I wanted to visit a pilot shop near Minniapolis, so rather than dump my friend at Duluth airport 5 hours before his flight, I offered to give him a lift in the new Cirrus to MSP to pick up his long haul leg there.
He checked in for the London flight just fine, they took his ticket, and his bags. He told them that he was not using the Duluth section of the ticket.
This was in MSP before the Duluth flight left Duluth.
He then wandered arround and eventually got to the gate an hour before the London departure, just as the staff at the gate appeared. He immediately talked to them and asked if he could have a seat change. They said thay would call him. They took his name.
Twenty mins before the flight he is called. He thinks "great seat change", but no such luck. They said they had "been trying to find you" and that they would "off load his bags....."
They said that when he did not show up for the Duluth flight they canceled his ticket (even though he was checked in for the London flight at at MSP already!) They then sold his London seat to someone else, (Dispite taking his bags and giving him a boarding card)
So my poor friend, after waiting in the airport and gate for hours - checked in and everything, was being told just twenty mins before departure that he could not get on the flight and home to London!!!!
They then said that the ONLY WAY he could board the flight was if he BOUGHT ANOTHER TICKET!!!
His total round trip fair was about £480 (I know I paid for it!). Now they wanted another $1850 for a single (about £1000), and he had NO CHOICE!. They said to get a cheap fair he must stay in the US two weeks longer!
So my poor friend gets his credit card out and buys another ticket for the plane he already has a ticket for, and on which his bags are already on!
He was incensed!
This really does seem like the airline ripping someone off on an opportunistic basis, just because their ticketing staff and their check in staff are not communicating.
A gross injustice....
What should we do???
Ian
www.cirrus147.com
I am an FAA Instrument Rated PPL, and enjoy flying a Cirrus around europe.
Last week I flew a new SR22 back from the factory near Duluth in the USA to London UK.
I took an Instructor that we use in the UK to the factory with me to recieve his CSIP (Cirrus Certified Instructor Program) training and accreditation.
On the last day my instructor was due to Fly Duluth - MSP and then back to Gatwick.
On the same Day I wanted to visit a pilot shop near Minniapolis, so rather than dump my friend at Duluth airport 5 hours before his flight, I offered to give him a lift in the new Cirrus to MSP to pick up his long haul leg there.
He checked in for the London flight just fine, they took his ticket, and his bags. He told them that he was not using the Duluth section of the ticket.
This was in MSP before the Duluth flight left Duluth.
He then wandered arround and eventually got to the gate an hour before the London departure, just as the staff at the gate appeared. He immediately talked to them and asked if he could have a seat change. They said thay would call him. They took his name.
Twenty mins before the flight he is called. He thinks "great seat change", but no such luck. They said they had "been trying to find you" and that they would "off load his bags....."
They said that when he did not show up for the Duluth flight they canceled his ticket (even though he was checked in for the London flight at at MSP already!) They then sold his London seat to someone else, (Dispite taking his bags and giving him a boarding card)
So my poor friend, after waiting in the airport and gate for hours - checked in and everything, was being told just twenty mins before departure that he could not get on the flight and home to London!!!!
They then said that the ONLY WAY he could board the flight was if he BOUGHT ANOTHER TICKET!!!
His total round trip fair was about £480 (I know I paid for it!). Now they wanted another $1850 for a single (about £1000), and he had NO CHOICE!. They said to get a cheap fair he must stay in the US two weeks longer!
So my poor friend gets his credit card out and buys another ticket for the plane he already has a ticket for, and on which his bags are already on!
He was incensed!
This really does seem like the airline ripping someone off on an opportunistic basis, just because their ticketing staff and their check in staff are not communicating.
A gross injustice....
What should we do???
Ian
www.cirrus147.com
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Gatvol
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Better Yet......Get A Lawyer. That is absoulte trash. If he had to buy another ticket that means they had seats available and he had a ticket........
Go for the throat..........
Go for the throat..........
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valenii
I'm afraid NWA did it right. Rules and restrictions for most of tickets (fare basis) are stipulating you should use flight coupons in the sequence they are. When your friend didn't use first segment his ticket was automatically cancelled by system at the end of check-in time as "no show".
Even he was able to check-in for second segment separately it doesn't mean he complied with the rules.
There are many reasons behind such restrictions but it is too long subject...
I'm afraid NWA did it right. Rules and restrictions for most of tickets (fare basis) are stipulating you should use flight coupons in the sequence they are. When your friend didn't use first segment his ticket was automatically cancelled by system at the end of check-in time as "no show".
Even he was able to check-in for second segment separately it doesn't mean he complied with the rules.
There are many reasons behind such restrictions but it is too long subject...
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If he had a through ticket and all the flights were connected to each other and he didnt cancel the portion of the flight before the LON one then he'd go down as a no show and yes his LON wd be cancelled, saying that seems little harsh that it was not just reinstated.....
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Where's the customer service though?
Yeah I agree that the fare rules probably did state that each sector should be used, otherwise the subsequent ones would be autocanx.
However when checking in at MSP the agent there really ought to have known about that sorta thing and pointed it out to the customer there and then, especially as they had been informed that the previous sector had not been used.
How do they expect to keep customers when they can't even point out when the rules have been broken?
cheers
FF
However when checking in at MSP the agent there really ought to have known about that sorta thing and pointed it out to the customer there and then, especially as they had been informed that the previous sector had not been used.
How do they expect to keep customers when they can't even point out when the rules have been broken?
cheers
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FormerFlyer
My best guess how it happend:
He checked in at MSP for the second segment at the time, when check-in for the first segment at Duluth was still open so effectively ticket was not cancelled at that time.
I believe that system is not that smart to deny such things because it is legal and possible to check-in for the first segment only (i.e. Duluth-MSP) and fly. Then collect your bags on arrival to MSP and go to check-in in order to check-in for the second segment (MSP-LGW).
Why he was not reinstated? Exactly for the reasons why such restrictions are existing.
My best guess how it happend:
He checked in at MSP for the second segment at the time, when check-in for the first segment at Duluth was still open so effectively ticket was not cancelled at that time.
I believe that system is not that smart to deny such things because it is legal and possible to check-in for the first segment only (i.e. Duluth-MSP) and fly. Then collect your bags on arrival to MSP and go to check-in in order to check-in for the second segment (MSP-LGW).
Why he was not reinstated? Exactly for the reasons why such restrictions are existing.
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probably if you present a coupon to a checkin agent for a flight that is open they are none the wiser as flights that have been taken or not beforehand and it would let you checkin, it would only subsequently cancel when the previous flight has closed then the auto cancel would kick in, unfortunately all these rules probably are on the small print that knowbody ever reads...
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Rules correctly stated. Do not show up for any segment and the remainder of the reservation is cancelled forthwith. As to the why, I suggest googling for "hidden-city ticket" rather than me trying to explain it.
That said, it does seem that the system should not have allowed the checkin at MSP. The PNR ought to have shown DLH as the origin for the itinerary and immediately flagged as out-of-sequence. The only thing I can think of is that because DLH-MSP is not NW main-line but a commuter codeshare, perhaps the NW system did not have the reservation for that segment ?
Worth complaining to NW just for the MSP screwup. Might even get a voucher out of them, but no $$$ I suspect.
That said, it does seem that the system should not have allowed the checkin at MSP. The PNR ought to have shown DLH as the origin for the itinerary and immediately flagged as out-of-sequence. The only thing I can think of is that because DLH-MSP is not NW main-line but a commuter codeshare, perhaps the NW system did not have the reservation for that segment ?
Worth complaining to NW just for the MSP screwup. Might even get a voucher out of them, but no $$$ I suspect.
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This thread inspired me to spend (way too much) time last night walking through the NWA Contract of Carriage. Based on that once-through (which was, by no means comprehensive), I'd have to agree with the other posts as to why NWA can do this. However, whether or not they should have done it is a different matter. The rules are there, in part, to keep people from gaming the system to get a lower fare (and that is a vast oversimplification... it's not just about the fare, but also about seat inventory and a lot more). The Contract goes into some detail regarding this issue, and if they discover you playing this game they can legally cut off your hand or something. But that doesn't mean that everything that appears to fit this bill is, indeed, in conflict with the Contract. The case at hand is a wonderful example of a circumstance which should have prompted thinking, human intervention by NWA staff. This is especially the case given the distances and costs to the passenger involved. In short, it appears to me that NWA did something that they legally could do. But it was unnecessary, stupid, and petty under the circumstances. That’s not customer service. NWA has done little to increase its bottom line in making the pax buy a new ticket, and has all but guaranteed that this passenger will never again be a NWA customer. Therefore, that passenger won’t have learned from the experience—it’s not like he won’t make the same mistake and skip a segment on NWA again, because he’s never going to fly NWA again. There’s just no upside for the company on this decision.
Note: that ain't legal advice.
Dave
Note: that ain't legal advice.
Dave
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What an amazing forum
Can'thank you guys enough for all your help and interest.
I am about to sit down with my instructor and work out an action plan.
I have had problems accessing this forum in post mode from my work computer, but have now got it back.
I would love to reply individually to all the good advise, but thats not possible. I will keep you informed about progress on the compalint though!
Ian
I am about to sit down with my instructor and work out an action plan.
I have had problems accessing this forum in post mode from my work computer, but have now got it back.
I would love to reply individually to all the good advise, but thats not possible. I will keep you informed about progress on the compalint though!
Ian
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Valenii,
Unfortunately, airlines can do this, unethical as it seems. I recently had a reservation with SN Brussels cancelled because I found an alternative to the outbound sector. The whole booking was cancelled, they kept my money and probably sold the seat again.
Who actually reads the Conditions of Carriage? I do...now!
Seems that something should be done about this!
Unfortunately, airlines can do this, unethical as it seems. I recently had a reservation with SN Brussels cancelled because I found an alternative to the outbound sector. The whole booking was cancelled, they kept my money and probably sold the seat again.
Who actually reads the Conditions of Carriage? I do...now!
Seems that something should be done about this!
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SN Brussels are unbelievable bunch of ^*&^)(
Unfortunately they have one of the best African networks ex Europe so we have no choice. Every week we have at least one or more guys travelling with them. And every second time there are problems. First, they tend to cancel bookings (made by our travel agent) before the ticketing deadline (prescribed by SN!). Very funny to make booking 3 weeks in advance and then a week before the flight when you calling travel agent to as for tickting you are informed that booking is cancelled by SN! And the fare you booked before is no longer available so you need now to spend EUR 2500 instead of EUR 1200 for round trip.
When you flying SN to Freetown ex BRU, your baggage will be lost every second flight. Because aircraft is continuing to Abijan and your bags are going there as well. And in the best case it takes a week to receive it. In 25% cases it is lost forever (we have quite extensive statictics about SN and certain destinations).
Many other stories to tell but I think it is not relevant to this tread.
Unfortunately they have one of the best African networks ex Europe so we have no choice. Every week we have at least one or more guys travelling with them. And every second time there are problems. First, they tend to cancel bookings (made by our travel agent) before the ticketing deadline (prescribed by SN!). Very funny to make booking 3 weeks in advance and then a week before the flight when you calling travel agent to as for tickting you are informed that booking is cancelled by SN! And the fare you booked before is no longer available so you need now to spend EUR 2500 instead of EUR 1200 for round trip.
When you flying SN to Freetown ex BRU, your baggage will be lost every second flight. Because aircraft is continuing to Abijan and your bags are going there as well. And in the best case it takes a week to receive it. In 25% cases it is lost forever (we have quite extensive statictics about SN and certain destinations).
Many other stories to tell but I think it is not relevant to this tread.
