BA - Should I complain?
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BA - Should I complain?
Wanted to get some advice or just opinion from those in the know. This might seem like a petty gripe but I'm hacked off enough to wonder if I should try and get some satisfaction/apology from BA. I fly on business quite a bit, use whoever gets me where I want to be at the best price (that's business), but when possible I try to stick with BA. I'm also a member of the "exec club" and a small shareholder in the Company.
I booked a ticket online last week for what should have been an uneventful trip to Holland, thought I'd booked Gatwick - Amsterdam March 22nd, returning March 23rd. When I got to the Airport for the return leg, I realised (red face) that I'd booked the return leg for April 23rd - no excuses, cocked it up - my mistake. Much as a month in Holland sounds appealing it's not what I had in mind. I approached the check- in and explained to the nice man that I'd made a mistake and could he help me get home? Yes came the answer, he'd happily sell me another ticket. Slight problem here, I have a few Euro's left, enough for a paper and a coffee - and a credit card (maxed out - I'm sure I'm not the only one who treats their limit as a target). In short insufficient funds at that precise moment in time to buy another one-way ticket home at the quoted 230 EURO's.
Although nice man recognised it was a genuine error, he was in no position to assist me getting home and basically told me to buy a ticket from our Orange friends. Rang BA exec club to see if they could do anything, use their discretion/help me get a ticket using my air miles - answer sorry no joy mate. Trundled off and bought a ticket to fly home with Easy for 145 Euros (credit card shouldn't have worked but did) but sadly no nice sandwich and glass of wine to see me home. As it was I had a nice - on time - flight with smiling crew on shiny new A319 - not what I'd expected and perhaps the last thing BA would have wanted.
My question is, I realise I'm in the wrong and my case wasn't helped by holding a cheap non-flexible BA ticket, but I find it really strange that they were not willing to assist me, what if my card hadn't worked at the Easy counter? Would BA really have left me sitting in the terminal with no way home? What's the point in a loyalty program, when the reward for loyalty seems only to be the Airline selling your name on to credit card Companies for mailings but no help when you are - genuinely - in a fix? That said I think the exec club membership is neither here nor there, all it should have done was underline my status as a loyal customer -
Do I have any grounds to complain and if so to whom? Am I just a misguided fool expecting them to help me - I kind of assume if they could sell me a ticket as the flight was almost closed, they had an empty seat that I could have been in? As a passenger the attitude worries me, what happens if there is a next time, the more flights I take the more chances something like this could happen again. As an exec club member I just think, what's the point? and as a Shareholder I think, what is the Company doing turning away loyal customers to a competitor? As a business man I think, are they mad? Nobody was rude to me, I wasn't rude to them. Just confused and maybe a bit naive?
edited to remove duplicate in slf
I booked a ticket online last week for what should have been an uneventful trip to Holland, thought I'd booked Gatwick - Amsterdam March 22nd, returning March 23rd. When I got to the Airport for the return leg, I realised (red face) that I'd booked the return leg for April 23rd - no excuses, cocked it up - my mistake. Much as a month in Holland sounds appealing it's not what I had in mind. I approached the check- in and explained to the nice man that I'd made a mistake and could he help me get home? Yes came the answer, he'd happily sell me another ticket. Slight problem here, I have a few Euro's left, enough for a paper and a coffee - and a credit card (maxed out - I'm sure I'm not the only one who treats their limit as a target). In short insufficient funds at that precise moment in time to buy another one-way ticket home at the quoted 230 EURO's.
Although nice man recognised it was a genuine error, he was in no position to assist me getting home and basically told me to buy a ticket from our Orange friends. Rang BA exec club to see if they could do anything, use their discretion/help me get a ticket using my air miles - answer sorry no joy mate. Trundled off and bought a ticket to fly home with Easy for 145 Euros (credit card shouldn't have worked but did) but sadly no nice sandwich and glass of wine to see me home. As it was I had a nice - on time - flight with smiling crew on shiny new A319 - not what I'd expected and perhaps the last thing BA would have wanted.
My question is, I realise I'm in the wrong and my case wasn't helped by holding a cheap non-flexible BA ticket, but I find it really strange that they were not willing to assist me, what if my card hadn't worked at the Easy counter? Would BA really have left me sitting in the terminal with no way home? What's the point in a loyalty program, when the reward for loyalty seems only to be the Airline selling your name on to credit card Companies for mailings but no help when you are - genuinely - in a fix? That said I think the exec club membership is neither here nor there, all it should have done was underline my status as a loyal customer -
Do I have any grounds to complain and if so to whom? Am I just a misguided fool expecting them to help me - I kind of assume if they could sell me a ticket as the flight was almost closed, they had an empty seat that I could have been in? As a passenger the attitude worries me, what happens if there is a next time, the more flights I take the more chances something like this could happen again. As an exec club member I just think, what's the point? and as a Shareholder I think, what is the Company doing turning away loyal customers to a competitor? As a business man I think, are they mad? Nobody was rude to me, I wasn't rude to them. Just confused and maybe a bit naive?
edited to remove duplicate in slf
Last edited by bizflyer; 24th Mar 2004 at 18:44.
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I went off BA quite a few years ago, and swore never to fly them again. To date I haven't, and I certainly don't miss them. I do appreciate all the extra money I retain in my bank account though.
Welcome to the real world - the future's Orange.
Oops - sorry, wrong advert...
Welcome to the real world - the future's Orange.
Oops - sorry, wrong advert...
Shining Example, apparently...
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Sorry biz, I'm with BA on this one. The whole point of (conventional) cheap tickets is that they're inflexible. If airlines made more exceptions, there'd be lots of 'genuine' mistakes. And it's not the carrier's problem if you don't have emergency credit available. Hope this doesn't sound harsh.
The cheapest normally gets my business, but:
- Fly LCC if your schedule may change (EZY have done very nicely out of me over this!)
- Fly conventional if you prefer allocated seating
- Fly LCC if you want to buy crack from fellow passengers, seemingly...
The cheapest normally gets my business, but:
- Fly LCC if your schedule may change (EZY have done very nicely out of me over this!)
- Fly conventional if you prefer allocated seating
- Fly LCC if you want to buy crack from fellow passengers, seemingly...
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I don't imagine there's any serious grounds for complaint here - BA don't appear to have done anything wrong. That being said, what they did may not have been commercially sensible, if it drives a frequent flyer into the arms of the opposition. I wonder how high up the (many-too-many) layers of bureaucracy this would have needed to have gone, before reaching the level at which a 'free' ticket could have been issued - perhaps bealine or a colleague could tell us?
I can sympathize with bizflyer - I've almost done the same thing once. On-line booking is very handy, but the boys in Marketing will keep changing the web interface every few days (not knocking BA here, a general observation).
I can sympathize with bizflyer - I've almost done the same thing once. On-line booking is very handy, but the boys in Marketing will keep changing the web interface every few days (not knocking BA here, a general observation).
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I booked a cheap on-line ticket for Mrs DM for AMS-TLS back in Feb. with KLM (They are the only airline who do a direct flight too!)
Muggins here got the departure date wrong and had her leaving on a Tuesday instead the Monday. Mrs DM was not amused when she received her e-ticket confirmation e-mail.
So I called KLM - OK it was within one hour of booking the ticket.
First guy - sorry - that's the electronic bookings dept. you have to talk to them but it is a lowest fare non-changeable non-refundable.....
Called number he suggested - no answer......shut.
Called someone else at Cus Help....not same guy....girl who says sorry it's impossible. But try this number...123456 whatever and so I called again, explained that Mr DM didn't fancy going home tonight unless I had sorted the problem which I had created. Got a laugh from the girl and "I'm sorry it really can't be changed. I'll have to speak to a supervisor."
8-10mins waiting...then back she comes.... "OK Mr Pascoe, <Exceptionally> it has been changed as per your request. Same ref E-ticket number we'll send another e-mail confirmation to your wife. Have a good trip...." ME profusely thankful and able to go home without fear of decapitation.
SO a little POLITE persistence, a little humour and I appealed to the culture that very often shrugs shoulders and points out it's my problem - tough. After all there are rules and I screwed it up. (It is clear on the web pages what is what.) BUT KLM have a happy customer and that's good 'cos I'll be commuting most weekends on that route (hopefully) from Sept!
KLM!
Muggins here got the departure date wrong and had her leaving on a Tuesday instead the Monday. Mrs DM was not amused when she received her e-ticket confirmation e-mail.
So I called KLM - OK it was within one hour of booking the ticket.
First guy - sorry - that's the electronic bookings dept. you have to talk to them but it is a lowest fare non-changeable non-refundable.....
Called number he suggested - no answer......shut.
Called someone else at Cus Help....not same guy....girl who says sorry it's impossible. But try this number...123456 whatever and so I called again, explained that Mr DM didn't fancy going home tonight unless I had sorted the problem which I had created. Got a laugh from the girl and "I'm sorry it really can't be changed. I'll have to speak to a supervisor."
8-10mins waiting...then back she comes.... "OK Mr Pascoe, <Exceptionally> it has been changed as per your request. Same ref E-ticket number we'll send another e-mail confirmation to your wife. Have a good trip...." ME profusely thankful and able to go home without fear of decapitation.
SO a little POLITE persistence, a little humour and I appealed to the culture that very often shrugs shoulders and points out it's my problem - tough. After all there are rules and I screwed it up. (It is clear on the web pages what is what.) BUT KLM have a happy customer and that's good 'cos I'll be commuting most weekends on that route (hopefully) from Sept!
KLM!
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While I agree that the passenger caused his own problems by making a mistake, I think that the interests of the customer and in the long terms the airline could have been looked after a bit better here. All this episode has done is driven a loyal customer to a competitor. Still I suppose that this is one of the reasons why BA is not doing so well.
I am a little puzzled with the following remark from Crepello !!!!
Fly LCC if you want to buy crack from fellow passengers, seemingly...
Good to know that LCC's are now being described as assisting drug dealers. I thought that I had heard everything from the high fare supporters. At least it is good to hear that nothing like that goes on in their flights.
I am a little puzzled with the following remark from Crepello !!!!
Fly LCC if you want to buy crack from fellow passengers, seemingly...
Good to know that LCC's are now being described as assisting drug dealers. I thought that I had heard everything from the high fare supporters. At least it is good to hear that nothing like that goes on in their flights.
When e tickets first appeared the odd mistake was usually changed without fuss.
Now the airports are inundated with passengers who are trying to save some money by booking the "wrong" date.
It simply spoils it for those who have made a genuine error.
Now the airports are inundated with passengers who are trying to save some money by booking the "wrong" date.
It simply spoils it for those who have made a genuine error.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
I think renfrew has hit it on the head. Too many "mistakes" are being made these days and too many pax are just plain dishonest about it. Ascribing fault to the web interface isn't really an answer because you are given the dates and times of the flights on so many successive screens during the booking process that you really shouldn't manage to overlook the fact that you're booking the wrong flights.
However, if the agent genuinely accepted that it had been a genuine mistake, and if there was genuinely an open seat on the aircraft and that it was not overbooked at that stage, then it is a bit inflexible for an exception not to be made. But inflexibility on these things is part of the delicate balance between revenue protection and customer service - and it's obvious that with BA's lower fares must come stronger revenue protection.
It's at this sort of time that frequent flyer status can work wonders (although never guaranteed). An entry level card probably won't get you anywhere - but I'd be surprised if this had happened to a BA Gold.
However, if the agent genuinely accepted that it had been a genuine mistake, and if there was genuinely an open seat on the aircraft and that it was not overbooked at that stage, then it is a bit inflexible for an exception not to be made. But inflexibility on these things is part of the delicate balance between revenue protection and customer service - and it's obvious that with BA's lower fares must come stronger revenue protection.
It's at this sort of time that frequent flyer status can work wonders (although never guaranteed). An entry level card probably won't get you anywhere - but I'd be surprised if this had happened to a BA Gold.
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Just wondering, can BA staff use your EC number pull up on their magical screens a history of complaining/milking the system, whatever you care to call it?
I understand from another thread that they can have some kind of weighting to see how important you are in terms of revenues: just wondering, is this adjusted for how far into your membership year you are? That is, 2000 points towards the end of your year is probably so-so, but the same score three months into the year is much more substantial.
I understand from another thread that they can have some kind of weighting to see how important you are in terms of revenues: just wondering, is this adjusted for how far into your membership year you are? That is, 2000 points towards the end of your year is probably so-so, but the same score three months into the year is much more substantial.
Paxing All Over The World
Sorry Biz - no cause for complaint. Renfrew has hit a very plausible reason. I, too, made a similar mistake but realised after I had printed out the confirmation. Rang BA and it was changed at no cost but that was within ten minutes of making the mistake. Which mean that I did not have to spend a whole month with my mother ... 
I dare say that BA would want to help loyal customers and the genuine mistake but the volume of traffic and the need to keep costs down mean that it is not possible to provide the level of service that we all grew up with. The LCCs will fall prey to this themselves as time goes by. It is a natural progression of commerce and human beings!
If you are paying for your tickets then I use EZY, I live near LTN and have used them since they started and am very happy. If someone else is paying and you can get the Club Miles - go BA!
I dare say that BA would want to help loyal customers and the genuine mistake but the volume of traffic and the need to keep costs down mean that it is not possible to provide the level of service that we all grew up with. The LCCs will fall prey to this themselves as time goes by. It is a natural progression of commerce and human beings!
If you are paying for your tickets then I use EZY, I live near LTN and have used them since they started and am very happy. If someone else is paying and you can get the Club Miles - go BA!
This has happened to me several times, all genuine mistakes:
- Years ago, parents confused 8am and 8pm on the same day. BA carried them first flight the next morning, no charge.
- Checked in very early on a discounted ticket, (for business trips I always book the last flight home) asked for earlier flight, usually allowed to go earlier at no charge.
- Telephone e-ticket from SAS, right flight, wrong day. They took me.
- Airline took return portion of ticket on outward flight, so checked in without valid ticket. BA supervisor in Moscow moved heaven and earth to fix it, and apologised.
- Lost ticket. BMI said they could reissue it, but would cost £25. Said happy to pay, they waived the charge.
Changed flight on the phone via travel agent, checked in, right flight, wrong day. Flight overbooked, BMI captain overheard the discussion at the desk, came home on the jump seat. Awesome!
Perhaps I have been lucky: more cynically, I'm white, middle aged, have english as a first language, like to think I look respectable, and grovel a bit. Some of the kids who work for me have been a lot less lucky.
- Years ago, parents confused 8am and 8pm on the same day. BA carried them first flight the next morning, no charge.
- Checked in very early on a discounted ticket, (for business trips I always book the last flight home) asked for earlier flight, usually allowed to go earlier at no charge.
- Telephone e-ticket from SAS, right flight, wrong day. They took me.
- Airline took return portion of ticket on outward flight, so checked in without valid ticket. BA supervisor in Moscow moved heaven and earth to fix it, and apologised.
- Lost ticket. BMI said they could reissue it, but would cost £25. Said happy to pay, they waived the charge.
Changed flight on the phone via travel agent, checked in, right flight, wrong day. Flight overbooked, BMI captain overheard the discussion at the desk, came home on the jump seat. Awesome!
Perhaps I have been lucky: more cynically, I'm white, middle aged, have english as a first language, like to think I look respectable, and grovel a bit. Some of the kids who work for me have been a lot less lucky.
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The LCCs will fall prey to this themselves as time goes by. It is a natural progression of commerce and human beings!
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Globaliser,
Web based systems make mistakes, I once managed to book three single seats on three PNRs on the same BA flight. I maintain I only saw one confirmation screen. BA didn't make a fuss when I checked in, the guy seemed to think it normal. Anyway, if I book the same flight with the same credit card, the same name and the same FF number the system should NOT book three separate reservations on the same flight. Bad front/back end validation which that time BA resolved to my satisfaction.
Since then I had to change my return flight on a cheap ticket that was changeable for a fee, and a BA phone customer service rep made such a change for me. When I checked in the check in lady and her supervisor refused to accept the change and refused me boarding. The station manager told me I should realise that cheap flights are not changeable, yet she told me the CSR who changed my reservation was not expected to know the same. Final straw
Anyway, bizflyer, never accept the story that they can do nothing about it. They can if they want to, in your case they just didn't want to.
Web based systems make mistakes, I once managed to book three single seats on three PNRs on the same BA flight. I maintain I only saw one confirmation screen. BA didn't make a fuss when I checked in, the guy seemed to think it normal. Anyway, if I book the same flight with the same credit card, the same name and the same FF number the system should NOT book three separate reservations on the same flight. Bad front/back end validation which that time BA resolved to my satisfaction.
Since then I had to change my return flight on a cheap ticket that was changeable for a fee, and a BA phone customer service rep made such a change for me. When I checked in the check in lady and her supervisor refused to accept the change and refused me boarding. The station manager told me I should realise that cheap flights are not changeable, yet she told me the CSR who changed my reservation was not expected to know the same. Final straw
Anyway, bizflyer, never accept the story that they can do nothing about it. They can if they want to, in your case they just didn't want to.
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couple of points. I have a blue card - not silver/gold. I fly a lot but always book cheap seats (I own the firm therefore it's my money) so a blue card doesn't get you too far it would seem. Still, I do get regular upgrades from econ across the pond. I guess they are hoping one day I'll buy one!
I'm pretty confident there was no price advantage on the flights returning april 23rd over march 23rd, so they probably could have figured I wasn't trying to pull one.
I have had to change flights many times with BA, have always paid except on one occasion when I changed a return to london from new york to philadelphia - on the departure day, but could have/would have/expected to pay for that, just wasn't asked. On balance, buying a cheap seat non-flexible and paying extra on the occasions you need to change is still cheaper.
am sure that BA could easily have pulled my record from their system - as mentioned probably couldn't be bothered.
I didn't make a fuss at check in, maybe I should have but I'm not really that type.
I'll put it down to experience. Won't stop flying BA - I'll just be more careful next time - and will be more willing to give Easy a go. I'm going back to Holland 20th of April so being the tight fisted git that I am, will still manage to use my return leg after all. Actually, I'd probably have gone just to make sure I used it!
On balance I'm a bit of a git whinging about this, but figure it does say something about the BA system and their attitude when you're in a fix, I just would have thought there would be some duty of care toward a customer. You also wouldn't eed to be einstein to sort the one's trying it on from those who need a bit of extra customer care.
while I'm on here, a question for the Easy fliers, when I booked last minute with them, I paid what I guess was their upper end fare. Was it a coincidence that I was called in the first batch to board (therefore a choice of seat)?
I'm pretty confident there was no price advantage on the flights returning april 23rd over march 23rd, so they probably could have figured I wasn't trying to pull one.
I have had to change flights many times with BA, have always paid except on one occasion when I changed a return to london from new york to philadelphia - on the departure day, but could have/would have/expected to pay for that, just wasn't asked. On balance, buying a cheap seat non-flexible and paying extra on the occasions you need to change is still cheaper.
am sure that BA could easily have pulled my record from their system - as mentioned probably couldn't be bothered.
I didn't make a fuss at check in, maybe I should have but I'm not really that type.
I'll put it down to experience. Won't stop flying BA - I'll just be more careful next time - and will be more willing to give Easy a go. I'm going back to Holland 20th of April so being the tight fisted git that I am, will still manage to use my return leg after all. Actually, I'd probably have gone just to make sure I used it!
On balance I'm a bit of a git whinging about this, but figure it does say something about the BA system and their attitude when you're in a fix, I just would have thought there would be some duty of care toward a customer. You also wouldn't eed to be einstein to sort the one's trying it on from those who need a bit of extra customer care.
while I'm on here, a question for the Easy fliers, when I booked last minute with them, I paid what I guess was their upper end fare. Was it a coincidence that I was called in the first batch to board (therefore a choice of seat)?
Paxing All Over The World
Don't really understand this "fall prey" comment Paxboy, as the LCCs already provide this service as a norm.
Any large company will - somewhere - just be too big. The person at the front desk/phone will not know all the rules (as per examples above) and another will not be motivated to ensure that the customer still thinks the company are the best. Whether you are selling fish paste or airline seats, you will - eventually - get too big to care.
The interesting thing is what happens then? i.e. Does the company realise what has happened and pull back, regroup and continue to improve or does it just slide down the other side of the growth parabola?
I find that one of the common problems today is that both sales and check-in personnel are given minimum training and seriously discouraged from using any initiative. A far cry from the long past. I often find that I am more knowledgeable than the airline people I have to deal with.
Shining Example, apparently...
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Biz, sounds like you booked late but checked in early - boarding priority's first come, first served - no reflection of the price.
I guess the point here is that there is no duty of care, just an opportunity for an airline to show some good customer service and win a friend for life. A pity they missed it.
RW31, that wasn't what I was saying, as I think you well know. My point was that LCC pax sometimes span a 'broader section of society', ahem.
I guess the point here is that there is no duty of care, just an opportunity for an airline to show some good customer service and win a friend for life. A pity they missed it.
RW31, that wasn't what I was saying, as I think you well know
. My point was that LCC pax sometimes span a 'broader section of society', ahem.
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Many, many years ago I used to be a check-in chappie and had to deal with this type of problem. It was easy... explain the rules and offer to get the pax away on the next available flight.
No, you can't get a confirmed seat (until you're on board and the door closed AND THE AIRCRAFT IS TAXIING), but the airline that I worked for obviously realised that a seat is perishable (you can't sell it after the flight takes off) and any revenue is better than none.
Note... this was done at the airport face to face with the passenger at the information/standby counter with the passenger ready to travel - not over the telephone.
No, you can't get a confirmed seat (until you're on board and the door closed AND THE AIRCRAFT IS TAXIING), but the airline that I worked for obviously realised that a seat is perishable (you can't sell it after the flight takes off) and any revenue is better than none.
Note... this was done at the airport face to face with the passenger at the information/standby counter with the passenger ready to travel - not over the telephone.
Last point is well made: you will only get flexibility at the coal face, ie, with the airline concerned at the airport check in desk.
Forget alliances: they are as much use as a chocolate teapot when something goes wrong.
For a SAS flight with a problem ticket, I went to check in at the Star desk at Paddington. Can't help. Called SAS customer services (from whom I'd bought the ticket). Wouldn't help. Went to Heathrow on spec, with 40 minutes to flight time, no problem. Have had similar experiences with OneWorld.
Second handy hint: keep a record of your ticket number / locator separate from the ticket. My experience is if you lose the ticket, and don't have these details, you have to get the credit card out.
Forget alliances: they are as much use as a chocolate teapot when something goes wrong.
For a SAS flight with a problem ticket, I went to check in at the Star desk at Paddington. Can't help. Called SAS customer services (from whom I'd bought the ticket). Wouldn't help. Went to Heathrow on spec, with 40 minutes to flight time, no problem. Have had similar experiences with OneWorld.
Second handy hint: keep a record of your ticket number / locator separate from the ticket. My experience is if you lose the ticket, and don't have these details, you have to get the credit card out.