RyanAir lose court case
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RyanAir lose court case
from the BBC:
A disabled man who was forced to pay to use a wheelchair at Stansted Airport has won his case against Ryanair.
Bob Ross, 54, argued he was being charged extra because he is "not able to walk to the check-in desk".
The Disability Rights Commission took the case against Ryanair on his behalf last month.
Mr Ross has suffered from cerebral palsy since birth and later developed arthritis, so walking is very painful.
It seems to me that, what's happening, is that disabled passengers are being charged simply because of their disability
Judge Crawford Lindsay QC ruled that Ryanair acted unlawfully by not ensuring that a wheelchair was provided free of charge for Mr Ross to use at Stansted Airport.
He was awarded £1,336 in compensation.
The community worker from Islington in north London had told the court he usually used crutches, but the 1km distance he had to travel through the airport meant he had to use a wheelchair.
In February 2002, he was charged £18 for the use the chair when he travelled between Stansted and Perpignan, France - a trip he makes regularly.
He was also charged £18 for the wheelchair on his return to Stansted a month later.
This made it more expensive than his £20 return flight to France.
'Felt insulted'
Neither the airline or the airport were prepared to be responsible for the wheelchair charge.
Mr Ross told BBC Breakfast: "My feeling is that I pay the same price as anybody else and it seems to me I'm being surcharged because I'm not able to walk to the check-in desk and I feel that's wrong.
"I felt insulted, to be honest, and I know other people have used the word disgusted simply because it seems to me that, what's happening, is that disabled passengers are being charged simply because of their disability."
Too right too!!
BB
A disabled man who was forced to pay to use a wheelchair at Stansted Airport has won his case against Ryanair.
Bob Ross, 54, argued he was being charged extra because he is "not able to walk to the check-in desk".
The Disability Rights Commission took the case against Ryanair on his behalf last month.
Mr Ross has suffered from cerebral palsy since birth and later developed arthritis, so walking is very painful.
It seems to me that, what's happening, is that disabled passengers are being charged simply because of their disability
Judge Crawford Lindsay QC ruled that Ryanair acted unlawfully by not ensuring that a wheelchair was provided free of charge for Mr Ross to use at Stansted Airport.
He was awarded £1,336 in compensation.
The community worker from Islington in north London had told the court he usually used crutches, but the 1km distance he had to travel through the airport meant he had to use a wheelchair.
In February 2002, he was charged £18 for the use the chair when he travelled between Stansted and Perpignan, France - a trip he makes regularly.
He was also charged £18 for the wheelchair on his return to Stansted a month later.
This made it more expensive than his £20 return flight to France.
'Felt insulted'
Neither the airline or the airport were prepared to be responsible for the wheelchair charge.
Mr Ross told BBC Breakfast: "My feeling is that I pay the same price as anybody else and it seems to me I'm being surcharged because I'm not able to walk to the check-in desk and I feel that's wrong.
"I felt insulted, to be honest, and I know other people have used the word disgusted simply because it seems to me that, what's happening, is that disabled passengers are being charged simply because of their disability."
Too right too!!
BB
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I thought that charging for wheelchairs was fairly common throughout the EU. While this policy is unfair, inconvenient and expensive, it is surely BAA or their European equivalent that make the rules on who pays what for which facilities in their airport. I'm struggling to see how Ryanair has anything to do with this. If he was charged to bring his wheelchair onto the plane that would be different - but the airport?
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So the cost of one persons "special needs" is passed on to all the other passengers in future then! A low cost airline can only remain so if it keeps it's costs low! Hands up all those who think that a specially chartered air ambulance should be included in the £20 ticket charge where the passenger is completely disabled!
Lets take this ridiculous situation a step further and ask if the airline should be responsible for a taxi fare for thsi disabled passenger from his home and onward to his destination in France and return because he (or others like him) cannot use normal transport!
Lets take this ridiculous situation a step further and ask if the airline should be responsible for a taxi fare for thsi disabled passenger from his home and onward to his destination in France and return because he (or others like him) cannot use normal transport!
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Airports should supply wheelchairs, crutches and maybe even pushchairs for those passengers who put their means of getting themselves or others about into their checked luggage. At airports, at least in the US, it is not the airline that supplies the wheelchair, it is the airport - thus, Sensible, the cost of the wheelchair is paid by the airport, and once spread over all the airlines that use the wheelchairs (etc) the cost is incredibly low per chair. Long and short: Ryanair should have nothing to do with the supply of wheelchairs etc, it's the airport's responsibility.
Yes good point sensible , lets expand that - if they can't afford taxis ,wheelchairs & lets not forget all the expensive ramps & wide doors we have to pay for the blighters !( not my taxes thank you! ) ,should'nt they just stay at home , out of sight behind closed doors ?.
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Sounds to me that Ryanair have pretty good grounds for an appeal here. If the airline is charged by the airport authority for transporting passengers around the terminal, then it is only right that the airline reserves the right to charge a small fee for this service.
Disabled individuals receive disability benefit to assist in the payment of services and provisions associated with their disabilty.
Disabled individuals receive disability benefit to assist in the payment of services and provisions associated with their disabilty.
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Wheelchair?
The Government should pay. It's their policy and they do take an awful lot in passenger taxes for very little return. This judgement would logically lead to the conclusion that any part of the terminal building beyond the check-in desk is the responsibility of whichever airline[s] happened to be on stand at the time......this cannot be right! Go to appeal.....this is comic book stuff.
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Disability Benefit - Some Facts
Freeway - as the father of a severely disabled child, I know just a little about Disability Benefits. Whilst you are correct in saying that such benefits are paid, the amounts paid are not exactly vast. Moreover, there has been a concerted campaign over the past few years (pre Labour but still continuing) for all claimants to be put on the lowest tier of benefit when their case is periodically reviewed .
Depending upon the individual's circumstances, the level of benefits received frequently doesn't cover the extra expenditure that is necessary to enable the disabled person to get around etc.
Also remember, those that are disabled didn't ask for their disabilities. Moreover, although the public are frequently very helpful in suggesting that my wife should have had an abortion so as not to give rise to the situation, in many, many situations there is no knowledge of the disability before birth.
Sensible - it's called social responsibility; that those that have try to help those who have not.
Depending upon the individual's circumstances, the level of benefits received frequently doesn't cover the extra expenditure that is necessary to enable the disabled person to get around etc.
Also remember, those that are disabled didn't ask for their disabilities. Moreover, although the public are frequently very helpful in suggesting that my wife should have had an abortion so as not to give rise to the situation, in many, many situations there is no knowledge of the disability before birth.
Sensible - it's called social responsibility; that those that have try to help those who have not.
Last edited by OLNEY 1 BRAVO; 30th Jan 2004 at 19:54.
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I can't believe what I am reading! What planet are you guys from? It seems every airline except the UK el cheapos provide wheel chair service to the needy. I'm not just talking international carriers but domestic in my neck of the woods provide wheelchair and driver at check in, boarding and disembarkation. I am delighted to hear Ryanair lost the case they never had.
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I feel the airport should be responsible for providing access to aircraft, after all abled bodied people are not charged to use moving walkways etc.
Perhaps the solution would be to provide wheel chairs on loan from a customer services desk at the airport free of charge for use by the passenger. Many shopping centres have this sort of arrangement.
If the passenger then needs to board an aircraft by stairs, as the airline chooses not to pay for an airbridge, then the airline needs to cover arrangements for the passenger to board. ( Has anyone had experince of using one of these - http://www.alber.co.uk/new/mobility/...max_mainU2.asp - if so please PM me I am doing some research.)
However if the passenger needs someone to push the chair for them and is not travelling with a companion able or willing to help then a small fee would be resonable.
If this is not resonable where do you draw the line?
Perhaps the solution would be to provide wheel chairs on loan from a customer services desk at the airport free of charge for use by the passenger. Many shopping centres have this sort of arrangement.
If the passenger then needs to board an aircraft by stairs, as the airline chooses not to pay for an airbridge, then the airline needs to cover arrangements for the passenger to board. ( Has anyone had experince of using one of these - http://www.alber.co.uk/new/mobility/...max_mainU2.asp - if so please PM me I am doing some research.)
However if the passenger needs someone to push the chair for them and is not travelling with a companion able or willing to help then a small fee would be resonable.
If this is not resonable where do you draw the line?
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At least this has given Ryanair an opportunity to raise some funds another - handy given their profits warning. They have announced (in a fit of pique I would suggest) that as a result of losing this case they will be surcharging all their passengers 50p, to cover the cost of providing wheelchairs at Stansted, Gatwick, Dublin and Shannon, they only airports they use that do charge. By that calculation it would seem that every 36th passenger on Ryanair requires a wheelchair at one of the above 4 airports. Ot they are trying to make a quick buck - you choose!
I can't help feeling that Ryanair may get a backlash on this one - most of their vitriol is levelled at airports and similar, who the public will feel are fair game, but this one leaves a bad taste.
I can't help feeling that Ryanair may get a backlash on this one - most of their vitriol is levelled at airports and similar, who the public will feel are fair game, but this one leaves a bad taste.
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Lets take this ridiculous situation a step further
And why not. It's a completely fair and 'sensible' thing by the sounds of it. Clearly they are not worth a whole 50p of my hard earned cash.
Can't believe some of the posts here. Incredible attitudes and I DON'T mean about whether the airport or airline should pay for the wheelchair / person to push it!
Ryanair's reputation has just gone down even further in my humble opinion. And, sad to say, certain Ppruners' even more.
rant mode off
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Will Ryanair stop charging 20Euro each way ?
Will this mean that Ryanair will provide wheelchairs at Dublin Airport, and all other stations from now on?
To charge a disabled passenger for a wheelchair is a disgrace. They do discriminate against the disabled. How others can argue about the necessity of this service is beyond me. Im sure its not a service you would want to be using if there was a choice.
My understanding is that at Ryanair in STN, are passing a charge to the passenger, which, in turn has been passed to them by the agent or the airport. Given that Ryanair are the agents at Dublin Airport, and Aer Rianta being the Airport Authority does not impose this charge upon Ryanair or any other airline, I would like to hear their reasons behind the 20 Euro charge at Dublin.
I firmly believe that Ryanair or the Government/EU President should address this area and stop trying to make it sound as if airport authorities are unfairly charging the airline. It does not cost a lot for the airline to provide wheelchairs. All they got to do is buy them.
To charge a disabled passenger for a wheelchair is a disgrace. They do discriminate against the disabled. How others can argue about the necessity of this service is beyond me. Im sure its not a service you would want to be using if there was a choice.
My understanding is that at Ryanair in STN, are passing a charge to the passenger, which, in turn has been passed to them by the agent or the airport. Given that Ryanair are the agents at Dublin Airport, and Aer Rianta being the Airport Authority does not impose this charge upon Ryanair or any other airline, I would like to hear their reasons behind the 20 Euro charge at Dublin.
I firmly believe that Ryanair or the Government/EU President should address this area and stop trying to make it sound as if airport authorities are unfairly charging the airline. It does not cost a lot for the airline to provide wheelchairs. All they got to do is buy them.
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Olney, the point that I was making was that we cannot expect a service which the airport authority charges for, to be ignored by the airline. The fact is that Ryanair operate to extremely tight margins and the charging for the use of the wheelchair offsets the cost incurred to the airline by the airport authority. It is a low fares airline. Like it or not this is how these airlines operate.I might add that this is fact that I am writing and not my own personal opinion.
My airline has not ever charged for the use of a wheelchair, it simply adds a small amount of the service charge into everybody's ticket price, a move I see Ryanair says it will now implement.
When I referred earlier to disability benefit I did not refer to the level of disability benefit. Yes, I am well aware that the level is woefully inadequate, the debate on that subject is for another time and place. However, I stated correctly that the benefit is there for disabled individuals to assist in the payment of services and provisions associated with their disability.
My airline has not ever charged for the use of a wheelchair, it simply adds a small amount of the service charge into everybody's ticket price, a move I see Ryanair says it will now implement.
When I referred earlier to disability benefit I did not refer to the level of disability benefit. Yes, I am well aware that the level is woefully inadequate, the debate on that subject is for another time and place. However, I stated correctly that the benefit is there for disabled individuals to assist in the payment of services and provisions associated with their disability.
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Un believable. I am a firm believer in the low cost revolution but to charge the disabled is taking it too far. The 50P per pax makes it even more stupid! The 216 million that MOL and RYR make is more than enough to pay for the odd wheelchair!!
Feel sorry for people who are so short sighted by saying that it is up to the individual as it could be you or me tommorrow! Even in the most individualistic society called the states it is always taken care of be it by either the airport or the airline!
Feel sorry for people who are so short sighted by saying that it is up to the individual as it could be you or me tommorrow! Even in the most individualistic society called the states it is always taken care of be it by either the airport or the airline!
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Hmm. The Disability Discrimination Act says that people can't receive less favourable treatment regardless of disabilities. This has an impact across the whole country - from access to public buildings to job recruitment. There is no reason that what happens at airports should be different.
Who should pay? Who said the government? In case you don't know, money that "the government" pays comes from the taxpayer - so you are effectively asking not only every other passenger to pay, but everybody in the country. Seems pretty arbitrary, if you never use airports ....
I would plump for the airport. However, STN is run by BAA - which still behaves like a branch of government - it fails to treat the airlines as its customers (which they are - i.e. the people who they are paid by); it feels happy to get airlines who aren't going to benefit from (e.g.) Terminal 5 at LHR to pay for it - up front - and basically any "business risk" is passed on to the airlines. Oh, and the government backs them up in this regard. So fat chance of that, then.
This being the case, it is left to the airline. The real issue is not that disabled people have a right to equal treatment, it is over where the liability for that equal treatment ought to lie.
Who should pay? Who said the government? In case you don't know, money that "the government" pays comes from the taxpayer - so you are effectively asking not only every other passenger to pay, but everybody in the country. Seems pretty arbitrary, if you never use airports ....
I would plump for the airport. However, STN is run by BAA - which still behaves like a branch of government - it fails to treat the airlines as its customers (which they are - i.e. the people who they are paid by); it feels happy to get airlines who aren't going to benefit from (e.g.) Terminal 5 at LHR to pay for it - up front - and basically any "business risk" is passed on to the airlines. Oh, and the government backs them up in this regard. So fat chance of that, then.
This being the case, it is left to the airline. The real issue is not that disabled people have a right to equal treatment, it is over where the liability for that equal treatment ought to lie.
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shame...
It's quite a shame seeing a post like this with such different opinions. The person using a wheelchair is not using it on his/her own will, they're using it cause they can't go without it. I would like to see any of you saying disabled people should be charged apart sitting on a wheel chair. You'd be the first to run to the post and complain about this abuse. And who is the (the right word for this is not correct to use in a forum) complaining about having to pay extra 50P?? If that annoys you then use any other company and pay ten times more. A little bit of common sense. Please...
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I would suggest that the individual concerned was not treated less favourably by Ryanair although it is clear that he expected MORE favourable treatment insomuch that he wanted a wheelchair as a freeby thrown in. How many freeby's can you throw in on a 20 quid ticket for heavens sake!
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I take my hat off to Ryanair for thinking about another way to increase revenue above the stated fare. By charging 50p disability tax to all passengers they will make a small fortune compared to what they will pay out.
Also from today Ryanair are charging a new handling fee for customers purchasing fares on the internet with a credit card.
The charge is £1.75 per person per sector instead of a £3 credit card fee. A family of 4 will now be paying a fee of £14 for a return flight when using a credit card.
Also from today Ryanair are charging a new handling fee for customers purchasing fares on the internet with a credit card.
The charge is £1.75 per person per sector instead of a £3 credit card fee. A family of 4 will now be paying a fee of £14 for a return flight when using a credit card.