RyanAir lose court case
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DFC
A 'pikey' is a nickname referring to gypsies or the travelling fraternity....... its a word that the political correctness brigade jump up and down and huff and puff about......
A 'pikey' is a nickname referring to gypsies or the travelling fraternity....... its a word that the political correctness brigade jump up and down and huff and puff about......
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From www.ryanair.com/charter/policy.html
* Dublin, Leeds-Bradford, London Luton, London Gatwick, London Stansted and Shannon.
Why would someone who needs a wheelchair, not come to the airport in their wheelchair?
Ryanair will make every reasonable effort to provide assistance to all of our passengers. In the case of wheelchair passengers travelling in their own wheelchairs, Ryanair will pay for and absorb the cost of this service at all of our airports. Where passengers are not travelling in a wheelchair but request wheelchair assistance at airports, Ryanair will direct those passengers to the relevant third party wheelchair assistance provider, and if a fee is charged by that provider at that particular airport, then the individual passenger will be asked to pay for it. Ryanair will continue to lobby those few airports (currently 6* out of 56 airports served) who do not provide this service free of charge, to do so.
Why would someone who needs a wheelchair, not come to the airport in their wheelchair?
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Runway 31 your point is reasonable (and reasonably made) but sadly, the world isn't that black and white. There are people who can manage a certain distance, but not more, and others who choose not to bring their own equipment for a variety of valid reasons. One example might be some of those who use electric vehicles to get around town (the ones who proceed through Sainsbury's vegetable aisle in a manner reminscent of Boadicea) but do not possess a wchr. There are others who (as excellently detailed by Roghead) have valid personal reasons for wishing to minimise the fuss attendant on their situation.
Once again, I don't believe that an airline should be allowed to cherry pick those members of the human race that it approves of and penalise those that it does not - the world found out why in 1945.
I'm not suggesting that O'Leary et al are explicit Nazis, but I do feel that this would be the top of a very slippery slope indeed. If one of my passengers falls sick with coronary problems in flight, then the crew are required to spend a disproportionate amount of the short flight time attending to him, rather than others. This often means that the company loses revenue since a retail service may not be offered. It also lessens the attention that we are able to provide to others, and could incur significant expense in the event of an offload with delay or diversion. It ramps up the workload of the crew all round, and more particularly that of the Commander if a diversion is required, possibly not under ideal circumstances. If the sick passenger is also a smoker and eats and drinks to excess as part of their chosen lifestyle, then the question arises as to who should pay for all this and also as to whether or not the passenger should be boarded in the first place? A case can be made for applying financial sanctions against anybody who does not fit an airline's own concept of an "ideal" passenger. Let's not go there...
Once again, I don't believe that an airline should be allowed to cherry pick those members of the human race that it approves of and penalise those that it does not - the world found out why in 1945.
I'm not suggesting that O'Leary et al are explicit Nazis, but I do feel that this would be the top of a very slippery slope indeed. If one of my passengers falls sick with coronary problems in flight, then the crew are required to spend a disproportionate amount of the short flight time attending to him, rather than others. This often means that the company loses revenue since a retail service may not be offered. It also lessens the attention that we are able to provide to others, and could incur significant expense in the event of an offload with delay or diversion. It ramps up the workload of the crew all round, and more particularly that of the Commander if a diversion is required, possibly not under ideal circumstances. If the sick passenger is also a smoker and eats and drinks to excess as part of their chosen lifestyle, then the question arises as to who should pay for all this and also as to whether or not the passenger should be boarded in the first place? A case can be made for applying financial sanctions against anybody who does not fit an airline's own concept of an "ideal" passenger. Let's not go there...
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I do not mean to offend fellow human beings who are unfortunate to be disabled in some way but I wonder as a lay person, if the award in this case sets legal precedents and extends beyond this case. Perhaps a forum member with a legal background can answer some questions that I have.
If this sets case law and precedents have been set, will this judgement also be applicable to all businesses in the future ?. For example can someone go to an out of town shopping mall and request that they be provided with a wheel chair to get around the mall ?. Can some one enter the local library and request a wheel chair to get around the library?.
I also believe that the award against Ryanair included the sum of £200 to allow the passenger to buy a wheel chair. Why ?, surely if he required one having been disabled since birth he would have been provided with one or had purchased one himself.
If this sets case law and precedents have been set, will this judgement also be applicable to all businesses in the future ?. For example can someone go to an out of town shopping mall and request that they be provided with a wheel chair to get around the mall ?. Can some one enter the local library and request a wheel chair to get around the library?.
I also believe that the award against Ryanair included the sum of £200 to allow the passenger to buy a wheel chair. Why ?, surely if he required one having been disabled since birth he would have been provided with one or had purchased one himself.
Eight Gun Fighter
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Ryan Air is to appeal the judgement. Apparently MOLs main arguments centre around pax who walk in the airport doors and then ask for a wheelchair and that it's the airport that should be paying the cost..
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Tightslot
I agree with your sentiments 100%, although your argument about in care incidents and diversions is false since those are responses to emergencies, whereas providing wheelchairs for the disabled as a matter of course is not.
Is this not what happens with life and medical insurance premiums?
I believe that we should look after those less fortunate than us, but we need to face up to facts and the facts are that loco airlines are not in that business. If we wish (as a society) to have very cheap airfares, then how we deal with 'fairness' is an issue that needs to be faced.
The loco industry is relatively immature in Europe and issues such as this and the subsidies paid by airports and Chambers of Commerce need to be consdiered and dealt with.
It may be that loco carriers cannot surive with today's operating models.
I agree with your sentiments 100%, although your argument about in care incidents and diversions is false since those are responses to emergencies, whereas providing wheelchairs for the disabled as a matter of course is not.
A case can be made for applying financial sanctions against anybody who does not fit an airline's own concept of an "ideal" passenger.
I believe that we should look after those less fortunate than us, but we need to face up to facts and the facts are that loco airlines are not in that business. If we wish (as a society) to have very cheap airfares, then how we deal with 'fairness' is an issue that needs to be faced.
The loco industry is relatively immature in Europe and issues such as this and the subsidies paid by airports and Chambers of Commerce need to be consdiered and dealt with.
It may be that loco carriers cannot surive with today's operating models.
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Rollingthunder,if your premise is correct that MOL intends to base his appeal on such a contentious issue, Ryanair deserve to lose and be further penalised-I sincerely hope so!I find the original fit of pique to surcharge all tickets by the huge sum of 50p to be un unexpected but sensible solution.Methinks the man has a far wider agenda which includes carrying only "normal" pax.
Runway31,what you outline is now almost the norm- even in my part of the world. I do, however, agree with much you say and believe that the disabled and their carers could do much more to assimilate into the "normal" world.
For our part we will continue to avoid Ryanair and any other carrier who appear to us unwilling to provide a reasonable service for the disabled.Of course this will cost us, but we have a fair chance that we will arrive in no worse a condition than when we left.
Tightslot, thanks for your support.
Runway31,what you outline is now almost the norm- even in my part of the world. I do, however, agree with much you say and believe that the disabled and their carers could do much more to assimilate into the "normal" world.
For our part we will continue to avoid Ryanair and any other carrier who appear to us unwilling to provide a reasonable service for the disabled.Of course this will cost us, but we have a fair chance that we will arrive in no worse a condition than when we left.
Tightslot, thanks for your support.
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Thanks IanH.
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If an airline operating at Stansted is responsible for transporting their passengers from check-in to the gate, which of those little trains does Ryanair operate and how come they don't charge everyone for using them?
The Judge having Ryanair pay part of the cost of a new wheelchair for this individual (without even being able to put an advertisement on it) could be appealed.
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I don't believe that Ryanair would win an appeal because I believe that they were wrong to charge for the use of a wheelchair when able body passengers are not permitted to pay and make use of the service!
However, we know how Ryanair are financing the process
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Don't provide anyone with a wheelchair and everyone is equal!
Regards,
DFC
PS Is Ryanair the only airline in Europe who has ever passed on the wheelchair charge. Didn't Easy make a charge?
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If an airline operating at Stansted is responsible for transporting their passengers from check-in to the gate, which of those little trains does Ryanair operate and how come they don't charge everyone for using them?
The Judge having Ryanair pay part of the cost of a new wheelchair for this individual (without even being able to put an advertisement on it) could be appealed.
---
I don't believe that Ryanair would win an appeal because I believe that they were wrong to charge for the use of a wheelchair when able body passengers are not permitted to pay and make use of the service!
However, we know how Ryanair are financing the process
---
Don't provide anyone with a wheelchair and everyone is equal!
Regards,
DFC
PS Is Ryanair the only airline in Europe who has ever passed on the wheelchair charge. Didn't Easy make a charge?
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you sit around waiting for the wheelies to arrive with a perfectly healthy, fit looking passenger!
In the words of the Bible - "Judge not, lest ye be judged!"
There are many people who outwardly don't look as though they need assistance, but do in reality. The immediate example that springs to mind is the person who has had recent open-heart surgery. (Maybe you'd prefer them to be paraded around the airport with their shirts open and the scars on view?)
Admittedly, there are some who "work the system" and use the wheelchair service because they can't be ar5ed to carry their cabin baggage (one female US Country and Western singer springs to mind who actually walked alongside the electric buggy carrying her bags!)
Thankfully, they are few and far between and we are usually delighted to offer assistance to those less able than ourselves.
I wonder how David Blunkett would react if we charged him for his assistance and made him buy a dog ticket for his companion?
Paxing All Over The World
In the forum 'Airlines, Airports & Routes' there is a thread running:
Topic: New Ryanair Credit Card Charges In which Herod points out:
Looks like another neat one from RYR. Going to the topic itself, RYR appear to be wanting to cover the costs of the court case by increasing their charges for pax using a credit card. I invite you to read the thread but here are two snippets.
Another said:
I guess that RYR know exactly how many people use credit vs debit cards and how much more cash this will bring in. I have no issue with Ryan charging the full fare in lots of tiny bits, as long as folks work that out. It is certainly true that their fares ARE low. My reasons for not flying with them are unrelated to their cost or pricing strategy.
Topic: New Ryanair Credit Card Charges In which Herod points out:
Since the charge for the wheelchair was £18, if the ratio of wheelchair users is less than one in thirty-six, there will be a gain of 50p per passenger travelling.
As of 0600 this morning FR are charging a new handling fee for customers purchasing fares on the internet with a credit card. The charge is £1.75 per person per sector.
So family of four flying STN-CIA return will have to pay a stonking £14.00 credit card fee.
So family of four flying STN-CIA return will have to pay a stonking £14.00 credit card fee.
The charge for Switch is 40p per sector. The new charges make it cheaper for single passengers but much more expensive for two or more. I have checked the charges of some other carriers. FlyBE charges £4 per booking for credit cards and £1 for debit cards. EasyJet & BMI Baby also charge £4 for credit cards but have no charge if using a debit card. BMI charge £3 for credit cards and again no charge for debit cards. Aer Lingus appear to charge £3 a booking made onmline irrespective of the means of payment.
How much Ryanair makes on this depends on the ratio of individual passengers to groups/families of two or more. I guess it will add some more to the coffers.
How much Ryanair makes on this depends on the ratio of individual passengers to groups/families of two or more. I guess it will add some more to the coffers.
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I would hope that Ryanair are only appealing this case because they feel that the Airport should pay... and NOT because they feel the disabled pax should pay.
Perhaps their public relations officer would be advised to make a statement to this effect if they haven't already done so.
Perhaps their public relations officer would be advised to make a statement to this effect if they haven't already done so.
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I call you back
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The simple credo 'I f they can come the airport wihtout a wheelchair then they can go to the aircraft without one ' isn't much of an argument in today's airports.
Those of here us that fly regularly witness plenty of pax that have difficulty with walking large distances and particularly steps. Throw in the stress of check-in, security, a never ending walk to a cramped flight, sit in a dehydrated atmosphere and get spat out the other end and for an amazingly small number of paople it is a little much.
I keep reading here about the low cost model. As FR have found out it is the law to look after your pax and if to achieve quick turnaround times you try to discriminate, you will be punished.
BTW on the low cost stuff FR charged stranded Jetmagic pax €220 one way EICK-EGSS.
Those of here us that fly regularly witness plenty of pax that have difficulty with walking large distances and particularly steps. Throw in the stress of check-in, security, a never ending walk to a cramped flight, sit in a dehydrated atmosphere and get spat out the other end and for an amazingly small number of paople it is a little much.
I keep reading here about the low cost model. As FR have found out it is the law to look after your pax and if to achieve quick turnaround times you try to discriminate, you will be punished.
BTW on the low cost stuff FR charged stranded Jetmagic pax €220 one way EICK-EGSS.
Perfect passenger
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DFC, sorry for the late reply but your bus analogy is a little faulty IMHO.
They do allow wheelchairs, and if you're disabled the journey will cost you £0 - see Freedom Pass. You could also book assistance for any National Rail (=GB train companies) journey - National Rail disabled assistance - and that assistance would be free.
Back on topic, I think the company should have paid for his wheelchair assistance from fares revenue, as any other airline would, and if my ticket costs 50p more then I'd be glad to pay it. If only treating fellow humans with a bit of respect were that cheap all the time.
Sorry if that's a bit
but it's what I think!
How much is it to travel cross London on a London Bus? They don't allow wheelchairs either. However, us tax payers have paid for the replacement of a large portion of the fleet with low floor wheelchair friendly busses!!
Back on topic, I think the company should have paid for his wheelchair assistance from fares revenue, as any other airline would, and if my ticket costs 50p more then I'd be glad to pay it. If only treating fellow humans with a bit of respect were that cheap all the time.
Sorry if that's a bit
but it's what I think!
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It's possible to recoup the 50p wheelchair surcharge by ordering a CD through www.ryanaironlineshop.com , where they offer the full range of CD Wow titles at a 50p discount. They've even managed to source them from within the EU and so don't need to charge the £2 a disc surcharge that the nasty BPI insisted on.
