RyanAir lose court case
I call you back
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Even as a hardened Ppruner I can still be shocked from time to time. I'm amazed at how many posters are quite happy to discriminate against the most vulnerable in our society. The point is discrimination is illegal, it's the laws so tough on Ryanair who are the only company I've heard of that pass on that charge.
Of course the real issue is turnaround times. That is MOL's problem. More than one wheelchair with a full load and the quick t/around FR schedules quickly goes off the rails. That is why despite the negative publicity he has always resisted wheelchair pax.
Of course the real issue is turnaround times. That is MOL's problem. More than one wheelchair with a full load and the quick t/around FR schedules quickly goes off the rails. That is why despite the negative publicity he has always resisted wheelchair pax.
Longtimelurker
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Early on in this thread it was said in the US the airport paid for the wheelchairs .That's incorrect the airlines provide this service{ usally thru a contractor} and big fines are issued if your treatment of the disabled pax is not up to snuff.
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Ryanair Lose Court Case
I speak as a former 737 and JetRanger driver reduced to a walking cane and defective eyesight since an MS attack in 1997. I have never in any forum in any media read such offensive and reprehensible remarks by certain Ppruners. Why not have us all put down? Restore genocide perhaps? Dear God, the paying passenger only wanted the use of a wheelie for 5 minutes.... from a company with almost threequarters of a million pounds in cash reserves. The lastest in a litany of PR disasters by MOL.
Consider now the difference if he had merely said: "Ryanair greatly regrets any inconvenience or distress caused by this regrettable incident. Measures have now been put in place to prevent any recurrence. Mr**** has now received an ex-gratia payment from the company and a dozen complimentary flight tickets"
Oh dear Michael, when are you going to move on from your "all passengers can f*** off" attitude? bm (Disabled but still smiling and spending every spare moment to raise cash for msfriendsuk.org.... so that more youngsters without £750,000 in the bank can enjoy a short weekend break in Burnham on Sea.)
Consider now the difference if he had merely said: "Ryanair greatly regrets any inconvenience or distress caused by this regrettable incident. Measures have now been put in place to prevent any recurrence. Mr**** has now received an ex-gratia payment from the company and a dozen complimentary flight tickets"
Oh dear Michael, when are you going to move on from your "all passengers can f*** off" attitude? bm (Disabled but still smiling and spending every spare moment to raise cash for msfriendsuk.org.... so that more youngsters without £750,000 in the bank can enjoy a short weekend break in Burnham on Sea.)
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There are a lot of airlines offering very good prices at the moment. Even BA's domestic and European flights have become (imho) exceptional value for money if booked a couple of weeks in advance. My Travel Lite, EasyJet, BMi.. the list is endless.
MOL has probably just alienated a fair number of passengers, able-bodies included, with this gesture, regardless of whether he is right or wrong re. liability of costs.
I hope they vote with their feet and pay just a few quid extra to fly with another, more sympathetic, company.
MOL has probably just alienated a fair number of passengers, able-bodies included, with this gesture, regardless of whether he is right or wrong re. liability of costs.
I hope they vote with their feet and pay just a few quid extra to fly with another, more sympathetic, company.
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I believe that disabled people should get as much help as possible in coping with their disability.
IMHO, the charging for a wheelchair was wrong and Ryanair I feel have taken the wrong line in response to this result.
Personally, I would no longer provide any wheelchairs to anyone. People who required a wheelchair would have to bring their own - which we would not charge excess baggage for. If they don't bring their wheelchair and can't walk the distance then take the matter up with the airport who put the gates so far from check-in.
By simply not providing any wheelchairs Ryanair could have avoided this case.
Disabled people (or their friends and family) often have to purchase a wheelchair or at least pay part of the cost. Surely this decision makes it illegal for a wheelchair company to charge for supplying the wheelchair. - Free wheelchairs for all!!
Regards,
DFC
IMHO, the charging for a wheelchair was wrong and Ryanair I feel have taken the wrong line in response to this result.
Personally, I would no longer provide any wheelchairs to anyone. People who required a wheelchair would have to bring their own - which we would not charge excess baggage for. If they don't bring their wheelchair and can't walk the distance then take the matter up with the airport who put the gates so far from check-in.
By simply not providing any wheelchairs Ryanair could have avoided this case.
Disabled people (or their friends and family) often have to purchase a wheelchair or at least pay part of the cost. Surely this decision makes it illegal for a wheelchair company to charge for supplying the wheelchair. - Free wheelchairs for all!!
Regards,
DFC
Pprune Voyeur
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Just heard an interview on radio with one of Ryanair's charmless mini-michaels. He stated that they anticipated raising an extra 12 million pounds a year from the fifty pence surcharge. Is that really what it costs Ryanair to provide wheelchairs?
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if a pax has theor own wheelchair they r not charged so unless ur really disabled u pay thats the way i see rynair look at it . also the poor guys and girls who do the pushing get paid naff all compared to other jobs and the crap they have to take from the airlines and sometimes the pax.most of the airlines dont make u pay but kibris tirkish does as alot of their pax were tasking the mick they count be bothered to walk. u get a 20 stone lady plonk her self in your chair u wheel her to the bag hall the pick her 20 stone case up and drop her off to her car and off she walks while out in the airport theres a proper wheelchair pax who really needs help waiting .
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I feel sorry for the staff who have to handle the Ryanair flights. Most work for companies contracted to handle, are paid poorly and are abused beyond belief by the passengers most of whom don't bother to read the terms and conditions of the flight booking.
All airlines and airport operators should ensure a suitable system is in place to deal with passengers requiring special assistance rather than let it come to a court case like this.
Long live the low cost operators, even Ryanair, but make sure you remember who your customers are as without them you wouldn't exist.
All airlines and airport operators should ensure a suitable system is in place to deal with passengers requiring special assistance rather than let it come to a court case like this.
Long live the low cost operators, even Ryanair, but make sure you remember who your customers are as without them you wouldn't exist.
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FR are well known for their fondness of 'free advertising' but there are some depths to which they should not stoop.
Maybe it's the thought of offsetting their reported dip in profits of, close to £17m, that has coloured their vision and enticed them to recoup perhaps as much as £12m through this discriminating charge.
Consider a situation whereby a person of limited mobility requires an out patient visit to a hospital and requires the use of a wheelchair from the car park to the appropriate clinic; should the hospital impose a charge on that individual simply because a walk from the car park is considered too long? What about a levy on all patients attending the hospital?
I DON'T think so. Wheelchairs should be provided as part of the service.
Maybe it's the thought of offsetting their reported dip in profits of, close to £17m, that has coloured their vision and enticed them to recoup perhaps as much as £12m through this discriminating charge.
Consider a situation whereby a person of limited mobility requires an out patient visit to a hospital and requires the use of a wheelchair from the car park to the appropriate clinic; should the hospital impose a charge on that individual simply because a walk from the car park is considered too long? What about a levy on all patients attending the hospital?
I DON'T think so. Wheelchairs should be provided as part of the service.
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Personally, I think this is disgusting behaviour by Ryanair. Why did they let the case get so far? Why didn't they settle out of court? Maybe they really believe that any publicity is good publicity, and hoped to get a few extra sales on the back of it?
I'm afraid this attitude does not wash with the great British travelling public, who believe it or not, still largely believe in good, old fashioned decency on matters like this. This will certainly make me think twice about the implications of flying Ryanair in the future. Sometimes price isn't the only thing that matters.
I'm afraid this attitude does not wash with the great British travelling public, who believe it or not, still largely believe in good, old fashioned decency on matters like this. This will certainly make me think twice about the implications of flying Ryanair in the future. Sometimes price isn't the only thing that matters.
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As SLF, I would like to state that what I saw on the news tonight when that horrible sh*t from Ryanair angrily announced the 50p surcharge - well, it's guaranteed that this passenger will never again fly with the airline that makes Van Hoogstraten look like Mother Theresa. They're an absolute bloody disgrace and I for one hope they pay dearly for this.
Last edited by X-QUORK; 31st Jan 2004 at 06:38.
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Surely airlines are in the people business: People are their chosen "cargo", and that means that you take the rough with the smooth. Not to do so is known as discrimination and this is unlawful, as the court found. I find Ryanair's policies and attitude in this area to be uncomfortably reminiscent of those historically displayed at Auschwitz.
My employer provides wheelchair assistance FOC to those who can provide either a disabled sticker/certificate or a letter from their doctor. This prevents the supply of wchr's being clogged up for those in genuine need by request from those who simply don't fancy walking on the day: I believe this is a fair and reasonable policy.
Those posting on this thread, such as OLNEY 1 BRAVO and BoeingMEL who have experience of disability deserve to be listened to with greater courtesy and respect than some posters here have demonstrated. I find some of the comments expressed here to be deeply depressing.
My employer provides wheelchair assistance FOC to those who can provide either a disabled sticker/certificate or a letter from their doctor. This prevents the supply of wchr's being clogged up for those in genuine need by request from those who simply don't fancy walking on the day: I believe this is a fair and reasonable policy.
Those posting on this thread, such as OLNEY 1 BRAVO and BoeingMEL who have experience of disability deserve to be listened to with greater courtesy and respect than some posters here have demonstrated. I find some of the comments expressed here to be deeply depressing.
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Economics
No low-fares operator can survive if it is expected to pay £18 wheelchair cost on the back of a £5 ticket. This judgement holds about as much credibility as the Hutton Report. Standards of reasonableness are draining away into the gutter of political correctness. Common sense is dead in our compensation culture.
Just a numbered other
MOL has thrown his toys out of the cot again.
The 50p charge is excessive, as the true cost overal is probably a tenth of that, and just highlights what a complete @rse the man? is.
To correct an earlier post, it is not 'the UK cheapos' who impose this charge, it is RYANAIR.
If only the eejits whio use this dreadful airline would vote with their feet and 'go civilised' he might just learn.
Pikey
The 50p charge is excessive, as the true cost overal is probably a tenth of that, and just highlights what a complete @rse the man? is.
To correct an earlier post, it is not 'the UK cheapos' who impose this charge, it is RYANAIR.
If only the eejits whio use this dreadful airline would vote with their feet and 'go civilised' he might just learn.
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Couple of thoughts...
1) it always amazes me the number of allegedly disabled pax who miraculously receive healing and walk off the aircraft, when advised that the wheelchair is 30 mins away.
2) MO'L doesn't care in the slightest about disabled pax, they are a small proportion of his clientele who slow his operation down considerably.
3) Perhaps one way to solve the problem would be to advise all disabled pax that, in the event of a major emergency, they will almost certainly die, whereas the able-bodied person next to them may well survive. Sad, but true- and shown to be so by those studies at Cranwell.
4) Do disabled people have "rights" when it comes to air travel? I am not at all sure that they do, as- by extension- these "rights" could become ridiculous. For example, I should be entitled to a first-class "seat bed" on account of my gammy leg... hmmm don't think so...
1) it always amazes me the number of allegedly disabled pax who miraculously receive healing and walk off the aircraft, when advised that the wheelchair is 30 mins away.
2) MO'L doesn't care in the slightest about disabled pax, they are a small proportion of his clientele who slow his operation down considerably.
3) Perhaps one way to solve the problem would be to advise all disabled pax that, in the event of a major emergency, they will almost certainly die, whereas the able-bodied person next to them may well survive. Sad, but true- and shown to be so by those studies at Cranwell.
4) Do disabled people have "rights" when it comes to air travel? I am not at all sure that they do, as- by extension- these "rights" could become ridiculous. For example, I should be entitled to a first-class "seat bed" on account of my gammy leg... hmmm don't think so...
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Mor:
Your point 1 is bang on.
There are as many dubious claimants when travelling to disability, or injury, as there are dodgy asylum seekers.
The trick is how to weed them out with out discriminating against the genuine people who deserve equality.
As an aside , Last season at man(usual job). i had to wait 40 mins on the aircraft with my disabled pax for a an ambilift. we had a stand change to a remote and the pax could not get down the stairs.servisair were incredulous that my assist couldnt be rolled down the steps. All uk airports are geared to airbridge and are put to shame by the efficeient service at summer dest airports with their ambi lifts.
I have to turn my head away in shame when i see at ryr(part time job) the pax being manhandled into stairclimbers and "unloaded" into the cabin.
The airport should have ambi lifts or give everyone a jetty.
Oh and when are we as crew going to stamp out the offensive use of terms like "one wheely runner" or " one runner , one lifter" from our rt to handlers.
its a feckin disgrace and ryr is the tip of the iceberg
Your point 1 is bang on.
There are as many dubious claimants when travelling to disability, or injury, as there are dodgy asylum seekers.
The trick is how to weed them out with out discriminating against the genuine people who deserve equality.
As an aside , Last season at man(usual job). i had to wait 40 mins on the aircraft with my disabled pax for a an ambilift. we had a stand change to a remote and the pax could not get down the stairs.servisair were incredulous that my assist couldnt be rolled down the steps. All uk airports are geared to airbridge and are put to shame by the efficeient service at summer dest airports with their ambi lifts.
I have to turn my head away in shame when i see at ryr(part time job) the pax being manhandled into stairclimbers and "unloaded" into the cabin.
The airport should have ambi lifts or give everyone a jetty.
Oh and when are we as crew going to stamp out the offensive use of terms like "one wheely runner" or " one runner , one lifter" from our rt to handlers.
its a feckin disgrace and ryr is the tip of the iceberg
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Since the travelling public are now expected to line Ryanair's pockets with this excessive surcharge, why don't we encourage EVERY passenger to insist on a wheelchair! After all, they will have already paid for it.
Well, any thoughts I might have harboured that Mo'L was actually just a decent chap out to provide everyone with an opportunity to travel cheaply and easily have now been dispelled..
All the other low-cost carriers seem to be able to look after their passengers adequately, so why does Mo'L think that he can treat people so poorly and get away with it.
Hopefully this'll be his Gerald Ratner moment....
All the other low-cost carriers seem to be able to look after their passengers adequately, so why does Mo'L think that he can treat people so poorly and get away with it.
Hopefully this'll be his Gerald Ratner moment....
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Lee-a-Roady Moor,
Your comparison to a hospital does not work. Two reasons - attendance at hospital is essential to our health and well being. Popping off to France isn't. Also we the tax payer pay for the provision of wheelchairs for everyone that needs one at hospital even if we never (hopefully) need one ourselves.
---
Ryanair are right to call the 50p fare increase a tax and calculate it separately from the flight charge for a number of reasons.
Firstly, it is imposed as a result of a court decision in the UK alone thus it only applies to flights from the UK and secondly it applies to every such passenger regardless of how much they pay for the flight costs.
---
This whole situation shows just how successful Ryanair have been in creating a product that the average member of the public takes for granted - the low cost flight.
15 years ago (and still today on some airlines) a 50p increase in the cost of a flight would be so insignificant that people would not bat an eye. However, when flying with Ryanair, 50p often represents over 50% of the flight fare!!!
Wonder why we don't complain when mainline carriers announce a fare increase of 50p on their £100 fares?
How much is it to travel cross London on a London Bus? They don't allow wheelchairs either. However, us tax payers have paid for the replacement of a large portion of the fleet with low floor wheelchair friendly busses!!
---
I can see the next court case already -
Mrs Jones sues Ryanair on behalf of her 1 year old son;
In a court case, Mrs Jones alleged that Ryanair discriminated against her 1 year old son by not providing a wheel chair or buggie to transport the child from check-in to the gate. Ryanair provide the facility to others who are unable to walk the long distance involved.
She said that she was unable to carry her child the distance and that she couldn't be bothered to bring a buggie to the airport because she has another buggie at her second home in France.
-----
I think that we all need to get a grip.
If there was so much of a problem with Ryanair and as mentioned earlier travelling through Dublin - How come the hosting of the Special Olympics in Dublin last summer didn't result in thousands of court cases?
Regards,
DFC
PS - Not totally off topic but how come that most beople that have a disability preventing them from walking suddenly develop a further disability that prevents them from joining a Q at security? After all they are the one's sitting down!!
Your comparison to a hospital does not work. Two reasons - attendance at hospital is essential to our health and well being. Popping off to France isn't. Also we the tax payer pay for the provision of wheelchairs for everyone that needs one at hospital even if we never (hopefully) need one ourselves.
---
Ryanair are right to call the 50p fare increase a tax and calculate it separately from the flight charge for a number of reasons.
Firstly, it is imposed as a result of a court decision in the UK alone thus it only applies to flights from the UK and secondly it applies to every such passenger regardless of how much they pay for the flight costs.
---
This whole situation shows just how successful Ryanair have been in creating a product that the average member of the public takes for granted - the low cost flight.
15 years ago (and still today on some airlines) a 50p increase in the cost of a flight would be so insignificant that people would not bat an eye. However, when flying with Ryanair, 50p often represents over 50% of the flight fare!!!
Wonder why we don't complain when mainline carriers announce a fare increase of 50p on their £100 fares?
How much is it to travel cross London on a London Bus? They don't allow wheelchairs either. However, us tax payers have paid for the replacement of a large portion of the fleet with low floor wheelchair friendly busses!!
---
I can see the next court case already -
Mrs Jones sues Ryanair on behalf of her 1 year old son;
In a court case, Mrs Jones alleged that Ryanair discriminated against her 1 year old son by not providing a wheel chair or buggie to transport the child from check-in to the gate. Ryanair provide the facility to others who are unable to walk the long distance involved.
She said that she was unable to carry her child the distance and that she couldn't be bothered to bring a buggie to the airport because she has another buggie at her second home in France.
-----
I think that we all need to get a grip.
If there was so much of a problem with Ryanair and as mentioned earlier travelling through Dublin - How come the hosting of the Special Olympics in Dublin last summer didn't result in thousands of court cases?
Regards,
DFC
PS - Not totally off topic but how come that most beople that have a disability preventing them from walking suddenly develop a further disability that prevents them from joining a Q at security? After all they are the one's sitting down!!