So... how bad is KLM these days?
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So... how bad is KLM these days?
Can anyone give me the skinny on whether I should give KLM my hard earned pounds in exchange for a seat to Chicago via Amsterdam? I ask because I've heard dodgy things about them in the past, and since the transatlantic flight is about 10 hours, I'd rather pay more and avoid dodgy service, no food/drink and no legspace. Plus they're allied with NWA, which for my money is the worst airline in existence.
Please don't KLM bash, just let me know if I'll leave their flight starving/parched/pissed off/with DVT.
And do they have those handy-dandy laptop plugs in economy?
Many thanks.
Edited to make "airline" non-plural... d'oh
Please don't KLM bash, just let me know if I'll leave their flight starving/parched/pissed off/with DVT.
And do they have those handy-dandy laptop plugs in economy?
Many thanks.
Edited to make "airline" non-plural... d'oh
Last edited by davethelimey; 29th Jan 2004 at 20:15.
I used them for AMS - AMM a lot last year, service was fine, legroom seemed normal for Econ. The only thing I didn't like was the equipment, its a long flight in a 738, a widebody would have been nice.
AMS will send you without your luggage if you have anything but generous connection time.
Can't comment on power supply 'cos you'll be on different equipment
AMS will send you without your luggage if you have anything but generous connection time.
Can't comment on power supply 'cos you'll be on different equipment
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I've used them frequently bewteen HEL and NCL via AMS over the last year. Staff are OK, food is dire and when they let you down, they do it in style.
A few weeks ago, ex HEL, staff could not book me straight through to NCL (connecting at AMS) - usually there is no problem. However, the aircraft was late out of HEL, late into AMS due ATC and late off due airbridge. Some bonehead in Immigration was going slow so got to D54 for the NCL flight with a few minutes to spare and the aircraft was still on stand and airbridge connected. Staff knew I was ex HEL but said I could not get on since flight was closed. Long and short of it, three hour wait for next flight to NCL.
Two days later, booked through to HEL ex NCL (via AMS). Fifteen minute delay ex AMS due to...late passengers!!!! OK for some.
A week later, an hour's delay out of AMS for NCL due no F/O (had to position from UK, I suspect).
I am using SAS and Finnair again. MAN is less convenient but KLM hack me off. Shame, they used to be quite good.
A few weeks ago, ex HEL, staff could not book me straight through to NCL (connecting at AMS) - usually there is no problem. However, the aircraft was late out of HEL, late into AMS due ATC and late off due airbridge. Some bonehead in Immigration was going slow so got to D54 for the NCL flight with a few minutes to spare and the aircraft was still on stand and airbridge connected. Staff knew I was ex HEL but said I could not get on since flight was closed. Long and short of it, three hour wait for next flight to NCL.
Two days later, booked through to HEL ex NCL (via AMS). Fifteen minute delay ex AMS due to...late passengers!!!! OK for some.
A week later, an hour's delay out of AMS for NCL due no F/O (had to position from UK, I suspect).
I am using SAS and Finnair again. MAN is less convenient but KLM hack me off. Shame, they used to be quite good.
Last edited by Bus429; 29th Jan 2004 at 23:52.
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Last time I flew with them it was exec out and cattle back - both were very good and compare favourably to the 'Big' competition....
If you don't know about it then try Skytrax on www.airlinequality.com for hard info...
If you don't know about it then try Skytrax on www.airlinequality.com for hard info...
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WTP to econ is a lot unfair!! Agreed no competition on a 10 hour sector but the costs reflect this!
KLM do have some seat back TV's, it depends which aircraft you are on, I had them on an East Coast run and would expect most do. Maybe on African routes etc, won't have the same chance of success.
31' pitch, that's the same as BA will give you so no difference there.
A large independant survey ranks them identical to BA on all other assesed items too. AMS is a good airport to transfer in and if you include a stop-over a great city to explore - for more reasons than the obvious!
KLM do have some seat back TV's, it depends which aircraft you are on, I had them on an East Coast run and would expect most do. Maybe on African routes etc, won't have the same chance of success.
31' pitch, that's the same as BA will give you so no difference there.
A large independant survey ranks them identical to BA on all other assesed items too. AMS is a good airport to transfer in and if you include a stop-over a great city to explore - for more reasons than the obvious!
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I've had lots of experience with KLM, mostly MAN-AMS-BEY, BAH and DXB.
The Beirut flight used to be a 767 but these days it's a 738. The sector's about four and half hours which is quite a long time without any kind of IFE. The DXB and BAH flights are 767's, which in Y are nothing special. They've no seatback screens and seat pitch is average at best.
Another thing that hacks me off about the 76's is that they have no individual air vents for each seat, meaning that if you're stepping on at DXB in the middle of a 50 deg C summer you've no way of getting some cool air after you sit down.
The staff are usually fine, the food ranges from fairly pleasant to inedible, but I've not found punctuality to be a problem, in my experience.
The big advantage of KLM is that it's well connected regionally in the UK, certainly better than BA is! Within an hour or so's drive from my house I have LBA, NCL, MME and MAN.
It's also MUCH cheaper than BA usually, I guess you get what you pay for. Last time I went to BAH, KLM charged me about £300, BA wanted nearly £600, and Emirates £900!!!
The Beirut flight used to be a 767 but these days it's a 738. The sector's about four and half hours which is quite a long time without any kind of IFE. The DXB and BAH flights are 767's, which in Y are nothing special. They've no seatback screens and seat pitch is average at best.
Another thing that hacks me off about the 76's is that they have no individual air vents for each seat, meaning that if you're stepping on at DXB in the middle of a 50 deg C summer you've no way of getting some cool air after you sit down.
The staff are usually fine, the food ranges from fairly pleasant to inedible, but I've not found punctuality to be a problem, in my experience.
The big advantage of KLM is that it's well connected regionally in the UK, certainly better than BA is! Within an hour or so's drive from my house I have LBA, NCL, MME and MAN.
It's also MUCH cheaper than BA usually, I guess you get what you pay for. Last time I went to BAH, KLM charged me about £300, BA wanted nearly £600, and Emirates £900!!!
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WTP to econ is a lot unfair!! Agreed no competition on a 10 hour sector but the costs reflect this!
KLM do have some seat back TV's, it depends which aircraft you are on, I had them on an East Coast run and would expect most do
Seats in World Business Class as well as all seats on the Boeing 777 are equipped with an own personal satellite telephone system and personal video system. On other intercontinental aircraft, overhead video monitors and wall-mounted satellite telephones are available in Economy Class.
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Is KLM rebranding as a low cost carrier? They act like one. However, Reverser's comment amount their connections in the UK is a valid point.
Is the merger/takeover with Air France going ahead?
Is the merger/takeover with Air France going ahead?
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WTP is a good product, I agree but I also think its overpriced...
E.G. for London to Chicago on 15th feb, return 10 days later... (date picked by 1st date BA.com offered)
BA WTP £1279.40 from www.ba.com
SAS Econ £275 from www.telme.com
Continental/Iberia Business Class at £1671/£1681 from www.telme.com
So thats £275 for not that bad economy, £1000 extra for WTP or £1400 extra for Business class?? Know where I would be...
Dave, enjoy your trip, Chicago is a great city...
E.G. for London to Chicago on 15th feb, return 10 days later... (date picked by 1st date BA.com offered)
BA WTP £1279.40 from www.ba.com
SAS Econ £275 from www.telme.com
Continental/Iberia Business Class at £1671/£1681 from www.telme.com
So thats £275 for not that bad economy, £1000 extra for WTP or £1400 extra for Business class?? Know where I would be...
Dave, enjoy your trip, Chicago is a great city...
Too mean to buy a long personal title
It's always worth checking out WT+ prices, though. They are often sold at £100-£200 per sector over the cheapest economy prices, particularly during fare sales. In the last advertised BA sale I picked up a HKG at £299+£150+£150, and a pair of SEAs at £279+£150+£150.
Even though that sale has finished, there are still some low N class (deepest discount economy) fares on BA at the moment on some routes, with WT+ priced at £200 per sector extra.
Even though that sale has finished, there are still some low N class (deepest discount economy) fares on BA at the moment on some routes, with WT+ priced at £200 per sector extra.
