The call button ?
Thread Starter
Cake or Death
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 21
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From: uk
The call button ?
This may be a question that crews can answer. After the meal on an overnight flight, I like to have another drink before I get my head down. Should I call you with the call button, or stroll up to the galley and ask for one. I ask because I've always walked to the galley, as I think that using the button is much akin to sitting in a restaurant and snapping your fingers at the waiter. Your job is to get me off the a/c in an emergency. Serving food, drinks etc, comes a distant second (IMHO).
So, should I sit and use the button, or get off me @rse.
Which would you prefer?.
So, should I sit and use the button, or get off me @rse.
Which would you prefer?.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 3,585
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From: UK
Do whichever one You feel like doing at the time. You have an absolute right to be served at your seat if you wish, especially on a quiet overnight, without being subjected to attitude or complaint. You also have the right to visit the galley and make your request there if you would like to stretch your legs. The only rider to that is that if the Crew are still busy in the Cabin then the call bell option may take longer - in short, look at what the Crew are doing before making your decision.
The Crew are there for safety reasons as you are aware, but they have a subsidiary role in Cabin Service. They are there because they are being paid to be so, and should expect to cater for individual requests. In return, the Crew have a right to expect courtesy and a small degree of common sense and consideration (all of which I'm sure you provide).
In short, don't be intimidated into not using a call bell - it is there for a reason. One of the best reasons is that if the aisle seat next to you is already asleep, then you may not wish to disturb them.
The Crew are there for safety reasons as you are aware, but they have a subsidiary role in Cabin Service. They are there because they are being paid to be so, and should expect to cater for individual requests. In return, the Crew have a right to expect courtesy and a small degree of common sense and consideration (all of which I'm sure you provide).
In short, don't be intimidated into not using a call bell - it is there for a reason. One of the best reasons is that if the aisle seat next to you is already asleep, then you may not wish to disturb them.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7
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From: N'Orleans
Hmm, this one's interesting. I'll be honest Tightslot, I think your tone's a bit high-and-mighty, but I see where you're coming from.
I see 'the button' as a means of last resort, never used it myself, never thought I'd have to - which is why I prefer transatlantic carriers who charge for drink - you can ask for three wines, hand over $15, and not feel guilty. But your point about sleeping pax between yourself and the aisle's a good one. Just one question - what happens when you need the boys' room?
I see 'the button' as a means of last resort, never used it myself, never thought I'd have to - which is why I prefer transatlantic carriers who charge for drink - you can ask for three wines, hand over $15, and not feel guilty. But your point about sleeping pax between yourself and the aisle's a good one. Just one question - what happens when you need the boys' room?
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 3,585
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From: UK
OK, well, I was obviously having a bad tone day, for which I apologise.
I'm still not completely sure how CRM links in, and I still think the points I raised were basically sound.
It is not unknown for some pax to feel intimidated by the Crew into not using the call bell for anything less than a requirement for coronary surgery, and I think that this is unfair. In my experience, some Crew have a real problem with call bells, and are inclined to make pax feel guilty for using them, and this shouldn't be the case. If I hear of members of my Crew doing this, I tend to have a chat with them after the flight.
P.S. TemporaryCrepello In answer to your question - when you gotta go, you gotta go!
I'm still not completely sure how CRM links in, and I still think the points I raised were basically sound.
It is not unknown for some pax to feel intimidated by the Crew into not using the call bell for anything less than a requirement for coronary surgery, and I think that this is unfair. In my experience, some Crew have a real problem with call bells, and are inclined to make pax feel guilty for using them, and this shouldn't be the case. If I hear of members of my Crew doing this, I tend to have a chat with them after the flight.
P.S. TemporaryCrepello In answer to your question - when you gotta go, you gotta go!
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: London,Bucharest...wherever...
I have never used the call button and always have the (as i see it) courtesy to take my empty glass back to the galley and politely ask for another and if they are busy i will wait or come back, usually a smile and a few words as well ...I personally feel the call button and calling an F/A to be quite wrong and cannot bring myself to do it - almost treating the F/A as a servant harking back to the days of the servants in the basement awaiting the ring of the bell from the master...apart from that the 'dong' is annoying to ther pax.
Does any F/A actually disagree or object to pax. coming to the galley in this way? I am interested...
I can see where Tightslot is coming from, you are misreading her and she is actually supporting the pax...and she is correct as a pax you do (god forbid) have the 'right' to attendance from the F/A's without being made to feel guilty...a lot of pax dont know or wont go to the galley as I do as they are worried they will be told off...you'd be surprised how subserviant many travellers are due inexperience, fear, newby etc.
Does any F/A actually disagree or object to pax. coming to the galley in this way? I am interested...
I can see where Tightslot is coming from, you are misreading her and she is actually supporting the pax...and she is correct as a pax you do (god forbid) have the 'right' to attendance from the F/A's without being made to feel guilty...a lot of pax dont know or wont go to the galley as I do as they are worried they will be told off...you'd be surprised how subserviant many travellers are due inexperience, fear, newby etc.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 102
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From: UK
Tightslot, whilst I do agree with some of what you say I think your interpretation of call bell use is somewhat subjective. My reference to CRM was just that I thought it taught us to think about things in a more objective way. From what I hear, most call bells ring because the passenger...oh sorry...customer wants to get rid of some rubbish, or wants a drink of water, when they are sitting next to a water fountain or some such reason. I've never heard of call bells not being answered, just that it can be annoying for crew to serve a call bell drink when they were just about to start a drink service anyway. I have flown as a passenger for many years, like yourself, and have never found the need to ring one. How about you?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 305
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From: Brisbane
I much prefer it when passengers use the call bell than coming to the galley. I work short haul on 737's and feel that with the small amount of travel time if you have too many people in the aisle it becomes a real pain for the crew to get the service done.
It is also a safety hazard to have passengers in the galley.
It is also a safety hazard to have passengers in the galley.
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,842
Likes: 328
From: Hertfordshire, UK.
I take the point that smile is making for s/h. However, with s/h, CC are more often to be passing my row and I can catch their eye or raise my hand to request another bucket of booze.
On l/h, I would usually go to the galley for water and so on but waiting for it to be quiet. I think that Tightslot put it correctly and firmly, I did not take offence at the manner or wording.
Like BR, I have never used the call button for 'service'. In fact, the only time that I have used it was when a neighbour was in some sort of difficulties. I was nine years old on my first flight [LHR~JNB] and my parents made it clear that the call button was for emergency use only. Looking back, I can see that they wre just trying to keep me under control
but that has stuck with me and I think of it as emergency only.
If there is a wait before a member of staff walks down the aisle, I always have a [plastic!] bottle of water with me to keep refreshed.
On l/h, I would usually go to the galley for water and so on but waiting for it to be quiet. I think that Tightslot put it correctly and firmly, I did not take offence at the manner or wording.
Like BR, I have never used the call button for 'service'. In fact, the only time that I have used it was when a neighbour was in some sort of difficulties. I was nine years old on my first flight [LHR~JNB] and my parents made it clear that the call button was for emergency use only. Looking back, I can see that they wre just trying to keep me under control
but that has stuck with me and I think of it as emergency only.If there is a wait before a member of staff walks down the aisle, I always have a [plastic!] bottle of water with me to keep refreshed.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,981
Likes: 13
From: UK
On this general topic, any one see this space-filler in the Independent yesterday?
How to annoy cabin crew
Former BA stewardess YASMINE GIBSON lists her top 10 pet hates
ASK FOR AN UPGRADE
The only people besides the check-in staff who have the authority to upgrade are senior crew members. They won't do it just because you ask, unless you happen to be the captain's spouse.
SNEAK INTO THE BUSINESS OR FIRST-CLASS CABINS
There are some people who just won't take no for an answer and when no one is looking, they see a spare seat and hope that they will not be noticed. But the crew have a passenger list which, as well as giving them passenger details, tells them exactly which seats should be occupied. Culprits will be spotted and hauled humiliatingly back into "cattle" class.
ASK FOR HELP WITH YOUR BAG
You carried it on board, you can hoist it into the overhead locker.
DISRUPT THE SAFETY DEMONSTRATION
Agreed: some people travel a lot and already know the safety demonstration by heart. If they want to ignore the briefing that is their decision. But they should just sit quietly reading, rather than talk, laugh or try to mimic the crew. Don't bother - you'll get a tongue-lashing from any cabin crew member worth their salt.
DISOBEY THE FASTEN SEATBELTS SIGNS
The captain illuminates the signs for a reason: either the weather is turbulent or the plane is still ascending or descending.
COMPLAIN ABOUT THE FOOD
The meals are usually catered by a completely different company so it isn't the cabin crew's fault if you don't like your chicken chasseur. There is also not much that can be done at 30,000ft in the air if they run out of beef. However, if you graciously explain you cannot eat/are allergic to the choice that is left, the cabin crew might be able to find you a spare meal from another cabin.
PILE LOT OF RUBBISH ON TOP OF YOUR MEAL TRAYS
It is difficult to fit them all back in to the trolley anyway.
DEMAND A DRINK JUST AFTER THE MEALS HAVE BEEN CLEARED AWAY
After serving countless meals to passengers and being on their feet for hours with no rest, the crew finally get a chance to eat something. This happens when they have cleared all the rubbish in from the passenger meal service. If you value your life, wait 15 minutes or so after this is done before you hit the call button. If you are desperate then go along to the galley; this is slightly less maddening, but still annoying.
ASK THEM TO CLEAN THE LAVATORIES
This doesn't really come under the job specification of cabin crew. On a full long-haul Boeing 747 flight there are only marginally less than 50 passengers per toilet. It is a horrible job.
PROD MEMBERS OF CABIN CREW
There is something about uniforms that makes people think the people in them are public property. Cabin crew hate going on the Tube in uniform as it is impossible to travel incognito - people always stare or start conversations by asking where they are off to. Something about air hostesses makes certain passengers think it is all right to grab a skirt or prod a shoulder to get attention. They would never do this with other uniformed staff, such as police officers, bus conductors or soldiers. It's irritating. Please stop it.
AND FIVE WAYS TO INGRATIATE YOURSELF
1 Before they arrive to collect your meal tray, arrange it as it was when it was given to you, minus the food. As you pass it back to the crew, smile and say: "I just wanted to make it easy for you."
2 Take off your headset when a member of crew is trying to talk to you. It saves time and shouting.
3 Empathise with them. Remember if they are short-haul crew this might be their fifth flight of the day.
4 OK, you can read their badges and know what the crew are called, but try to avoid using their first names - they don't know yours and it seems overfamiliar.
5 Buy lots of duty-free goods: the crew get commission.
Former BA stewardess YASMINE GIBSON lists her top 10 pet hates
ASK FOR AN UPGRADE
The only people besides the check-in staff who have the authority to upgrade are senior crew members. They won't do it just because you ask, unless you happen to be the captain's spouse.
SNEAK INTO THE BUSINESS OR FIRST-CLASS CABINS
There are some people who just won't take no for an answer and when no one is looking, they see a spare seat and hope that they will not be noticed. But the crew have a passenger list which, as well as giving them passenger details, tells them exactly which seats should be occupied. Culprits will be spotted and hauled humiliatingly back into "cattle" class.
ASK FOR HELP WITH YOUR BAG
You carried it on board, you can hoist it into the overhead locker.
DISRUPT THE SAFETY DEMONSTRATION
Agreed: some people travel a lot and already know the safety demonstration by heart. If they want to ignore the briefing that is their decision. But they should just sit quietly reading, rather than talk, laugh or try to mimic the crew. Don't bother - you'll get a tongue-lashing from any cabin crew member worth their salt.
DISOBEY THE FASTEN SEATBELTS SIGNS
The captain illuminates the signs for a reason: either the weather is turbulent or the plane is still ascending or descending.
COMPLAIN ABOUT THE FOOD
The meals are usually catered by a completely different company so it isn't the cabin crew's fault if you don't like your chicken chasseur. There is also not much that can be done at 30,000ft in the air if they run out of beef. However, if you graciously explain you cannot eat/are allergic to the choice that is left, the cabin crew might be able to find you a spare meal from another cabin.
PILE LOT OF RUBBISH ON TOP OF YOUR MEAL TRAYS
It is difficult to fit them all back in to the trolley anyway.
DEMAND A DRINK JUST AFTER THE MEALS HAVE BEEN CLEARED AWAY
After serving countless meals to passengers and being on their feet for hours with no rest, the crew finally get a chance to eat something. This happens when they have cleared all the rubbish in from the passenger meal service. If you value your life, wait 15 minutes or so after this is done before you hit the call button. If you are desperate then go along to the galley; this is slightly less maddening, but still annoying.
ASK THEM TO CLEAN THE LAVATORIES
This doesn't really come under the job specification of cabin crew. On a full long-haul Boeing 747 flight there are only marginally less than 50 passengers per toilet. It is a horrible job.
PROD MEMBERS OF CABIN CREW
There is something about uniforms that makes people think the people in them are public property. Cabin crew hate going on the Tube in uniform as it is impossible to travel incognito - people always stare or start conversations by asking where they are off to. Something about air hostesses makes certain passengers think it is all right to grab a skirt or prod a shoulder to get attention. They would never do this with other uniformed staff, such as police officers, bus conductors or soldiers. It's irritating. Please stop it.
AND FIVE WAYS TO INGRATIATE YOURSELF
1 Before they arrive to collect your meal tray, arrange it as it was when it was given to you, minus the food. As you pass it back to the crew, smile and say: "I just wanted to make it easy for you."
2 Take off your headset when a member of crew is trying to talk to you. It saves time and shouting.
3 Empathise with them. Remember if they are short-haul crew this might be their fifth flight of the day.
4 OK, you can read their badges and know what the crew are called, but try to avoid using their first names - they don't know yours and it seems overfamiliar.
5 Buy lots of duty-free goods: the crew get commission.
Thread Starter
Cake or Death
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: uk
Many thanks for the replies. I think Boss Raptor sums up exactly what I said. We should'nt be treating you as some sort of servent. As long as you don't mind us coming to the galley, then thats ok with me.
Maybe I've been sat next to too many people who press that button for the most trivial thing (it just gets my goat whenthey do that)
BTW. If you're on AA gonig to LAX in 2 weeks. Im the quiet guy in 9B asking for another
Maybe I've been sat next to too many people who press that button for the most trivial thing (it just gets my goat whenthey do that)
BTW. If you're on AA gonig to LAX in 2 weeks. Im the quiet guy in 9B asking for another
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: Central Europe
@ globaliser:
is there a special reason for yasmine gibson being a "former" BA flight attendant.
paying 1000 euro for an economy ticket to brussels and back on the same day i don't give a damn how to arrange the meal plate when returning it, or when to order my drink.
if it's not the flight attendants job to clean the lavatories, who's job is it (especially on a long-range flight!)?
number 6 on yasmines "ways to integrate yourself" should read:
apologise with humbleness for disturbing the cabin crew when leaving the plane...
dg
is there a special reason for yasmine gibson being a "former" BA flight attendant.
paying 1000 euro for an economy ticket to brussels and back on the same day i don't give a damn how to arrange the meal plate when returning it, or when to order my drink.
if it's not the flight attendants job to clean the lavatories, who's job is it (especially on a long-range flight!)?
number 6 on yasmines "ways to integrate yourself" should read:
apologise with humbleness for disturbing the cabin crew when leaving the plane...
dg
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
"The Doubtful Guest" is clearly not a passenger that you would want as a crew member, nor one that I would want to sit next to as an SLF. But having said that, his/her point about the toilets is valid. I can't see how it can be anyone else's job but the cabin crew to ensure that are in a reasonable state (apart from each individual who uses it doing their best not to create a mess).
Certainly on my favourite airline the cabin crew make regular inspections/clean-ups of the toilets, even on relatively short sectors.
And on the name thing - I am always referred to by name when travelling business or first, and quite often when travelling economy. When travelling J or F (and sometimes in Y) the senior crew member in the cabin and the ISM will have introduced themselves to me as well. This being so it would be strange not to use their names.
Certainly on my favourite airline the cabin crew make regular inspections/clean-ups of the toilets, even on relatively short sectors.
And on the name thing - I am always referred to by name when travelling business or first, and quite often when travelling economy. When travelling J or F (and sometimes in Y) the senior crew member in the cabin and the ISM will have introduced themselves to me as well. This being so it would be strange not to use their names.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 0
From: London,Bucharest...wherever...
Whilst we may find the point of The Doubtful Guest unpalatable the fact is he is correct...cabin staff and airline staff as a whole should not expect customers to make their/our lives easier...maybe not PC but true...
...and for that matter how does the average pax. know that certain actions, eg. preparing/presenting their finished meal tray in a certain way, make our job easier...they dont...
But of course a bit of grace, courtesy and co-operation certainly helps the service on both sides as we all know.
...and for that matter how does the average pax. know that certain actions, eg. preparing/presenting their finished meal tray in a certain way, make our job easier...they dont...
But of course a bit of grace, courtesy and co-operation certainly helps the service on both sides as we all know.
Last edited by Boss Raptor; 19th January 2004 at 20:46.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,981
Likes: 13
From: UK
That was the entirety of the article, so no indication of why she was "former". Mind you, there's absolutely nothing sinister about it - maybe she's now a journalist who gave up the cabin crew lifestyle when the scribing took off? And many of the points she makes are valid, although some seem odd.
One of the oddest is the point about not using first names. Many crew members have name badges with only their first names on anyway - what are we to call them? It is fair enough to point out that there is a privacy line which shouldn't be crossed, but I don't think that using someone's first name transgresses.
One of the oddest is the point about not using first names. Many crew members have name badges with only their first names on anyway - what are we to call them? It is fair enough to point out that there is a privacy line which shouldn't be crossed, but I don't think that using someone's first name transgresses.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: Central Europe
@bossraptor
unpalatable
i'm used to give my opinion in a direct way - though i know british people sometimes feel insulted...
but as a matter of fact it turned out that the majority shares my opinion.
however i am fed up with being treated like a king on business/first class and like a peace of sh.. in economy and i only refer to the attitude - which seems to be company policy for some european airlines - not to the food, newspapers, champagne...
keep in mind that flight attendents are representatives of the airline. they are the only persons you can address with a problem or a complaint. taking such things personally is nonprofessional.
dg
unpalatable
i'm used to give my opinion in a direct way - though i know british people sometimes feel insulted...
but as a matter of fact it turned out that the majority shares my opinion.
however i am fed up with being treated like a king on business/first class and like a peace of sh.. in economy and i only refer to the attitude - which seems to be company policy for some european airlines - not to the food, newspapers, champagne...
keep in mind that flight attendents are representatives of the airline. they are the only persons you can address with a problem or a complaint. taking such things personally is nonprofessional.
dg