US Visa Waiver Programme?
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US Visa Waiver Programme?
Holiday coming up... Never visited the USA. Taxi driver in Antigua says he goes to Puerto Rico as it's cheap there. About time I got round to The Big Apple too I guess!
Anyway, I'm a bit spooked by this Visa Waiver Program (VWP) issue and how seriously they take the interpretation of the exact rules. The US embassy website for the UK states that you cannot enter under the VWP if you have a criminal conviction or even if you have been arrested! It also states that the US does not recognise the UK rehabilitation of offenders act (whereby minor offences become spent such that you can legally answer 'no' to the question 'have you got a criminal record'?).
Unfortunately, in our younger days, my wife and I were not the upstanding pillars of the community that we are now (easy to say under anonymity, of course) and both have a small skeleton in our respective closets from over 15 years ago. I was fined £50 for punching a driver who had deliberately tried to knock me off my motorbike (If only he'd said sorry, eh?). This has been considered spent for over 10 years now. The missus, paragon of virture that she now is, was arrested in Spain during her years at university 25 years ago for posessing dope (a bit unfortunate at the time as her dad was one of Franco's cops, albeit a good one) and then again in France about 15 years ago for smoking a joint in the street.
Anyway, do they really want us to apply for visas before attempting to go to the USA for a fortnights holiday, or would we get away with saying that we are arrest/conviction free on the VWP form? Is the system all-encompassing enough to pick up such untruths?
We don't really have anything to hide, but I'm just not sure that the VWP system is really designed to make life difficult for people such as us. On the other hand, whilst it might seem a pain to have to apply for a visa, it would be a long way to go to be refused entry so maybe 'better safe than sorry' would be the best option.
Can anyone with personal or professional experience in this matter offer some pointers please?
Much obliged to you all, and sorry if it's not quite the right forum but I couldn't see one more appropriate (maybe non air transport issues though?).
Anyway, I'm a bit spooked by this Visa Waiver Program (VWP) issue and how seriously they take the interpretation of the exact rules. The US embassy website for the UK states that you cannot enter under the VWP if you have a criminal conviction or even if you have been arrested! It also states that the US does not recognise the UK rehabilitation of offenders act (whereby minor offences become spent such that you can legally answer 'no' to the question 'have you got a criminal record'?).
Unfortunately, in our younger days, my wife and I were not the upstanding pillars of the community that we are now (easy to say under anonymity, of course) and both have a small skeleton in our respective closets from over 15 years ago. I was fined £50 for punching a driver who had deliberately tried to knock me off my motorbike (If only he'd said sorry, eh?). This has been considered spent for over 10 years now. The missus, paragon of virture that she now is, was arrested in Spain during her years at university 25 years ago for posessing dope (a bit unfortunate at the time as her dad was one of Franco's cops, albeit a good one) and then again in France about 15 years ago for smoking a joint in the street.
Anyway, do they really want us to apply for visas before attempting to go to the USA for a fortnights holiday, or would we get away with saying that we are arrest/conviction free on the VWP form? Is the system all-encompassing enough to pick up such untruths?
We don't really have anything to hide, but I'm just not sure that the VWP system is really designed to make life difficult for people such as us. On the other hand, whilst it might seem a pain to have to apply for a visa, it would be a long way to go to be refused entry so maybe 'better safe than sorry' would be the best option.
Can anyone with personal or professional experience in this matter offer some pointers please?
Much obliged to you all, and sorry if it's not quite the right forum but I couldn't see one more appropriate (maybe non air transport issues though?).
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Hi,
I would not worry if I were you.Just say you are conviction free on the form. Do you think they hold criminal records of every single country on the program????
I was illegal in the USA for three years, came back to France, change my passport, and came in again on the visa waiver program.
There is a box on the from asking if I ever was illegal in the US, I ticked no, and went thru no problem.
I went thru the mexican border so many time being illegal.The only question they asked me at the border was, "what is your country of citizenship" I would answer US (eventhough I'm french), they would answer "have a nice day sir".No passport or ID asked at any time. Well, I'm white with blue eyes, if I were mexican looking that would have been another questions.
Have a nice vacations
I would not worry if I were you.Just say you are conviction free on the form. Do you think they hold criminal records of every single country on the program????
I was illegal in the USA for three years, came back to France, change my passport, and came in again on the visa waiver program.
There is a box on the from asking if I ever was illegal in the US, I ticked no, and went thru no problem.
I went thru the mexican border so many time being illegal.The only question they asked me at the border was, "what is your country of citizenship" I would answer US (eventhough I'm french), they would answer "have a nice day sir".No passport or ID asked at any time. Well, I'm white with blue eyes, if I were mexican looking that would have been another questions.
Have a nice vacations
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Do US citizens visiting Britain for a holiday have to hold visas from the British authorities or enter a similar visa waiver scheme to that enforced on Britons visiting the USA?
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MV,
No, they do not.
And for others with criminal convictions on their record, IF found out, prepare to spend time in the slammer.
The 'new' INS means business.
Some might be surprised at the new databases used.
Beware.
No, they do not.
And for others with criminal convictions on their record, IF found out, prepare to spend time in the slammer.
The 'new' INS means business.
Some might be surprised at the new databases used.
Beware.
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Thanks for that 411A.
I find the situation remarkably uneven-handed then if the visa situation only applies one way.
BTW, how would the US authorities have access to Britain's criminal records office?
I find the situation remarkably uneven-handed then if the visa situation only applies one way.
BTW, how would the US authorities have access to Britain's criminal records office?
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MV,
You must be kidding.
Is not Tony B. in dubbya's pocket?
Having said this, from my perspective, the US needs to look at its southern border much more carefully...and seal it up TIGHT.
You must be kidding.
Is not Tony B. in dubbya's pocket?
Having said this, from my perspective, the US needs to look at its southern border much more carefully...and seal it up TIGHT.
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Sorry to be a party pooper but the US immigration service seems to know far more about us then we might like to think. The Visa Waiver Scheme is not a scheme which waives the need for a visa, but a scheme whereby you, the traveller, waives the right to object if they refuse to let you in!
Despite the fact that the convictions are long forgotten about in the UK, I would strongly advise you checking with the US embassy here before embarking on the flight. In recent weeks, journalists visiting to spend 2 days interviewing 'stars' in Hollywood have been arrested and deported, not becase of criminal activities but because all jounalists, even those that support Bush, must have visas. If you are prevented from travelling no insurace policy is going to refund you your lost payments for flights and accommodation
Despite the fact that the convictions are long forgotten about in the UK, I would strongly advise you checking with the US embassy here before embarking on the flight. In recent weeks, journalists visiting to spend 2 days interviewing 'stars' in Hollywood have been arrested and deported, not becase of criminal activities but because all jounalists, even those that support Bush, must have visas. If you are prevented from travelling no insurace policy is going to refund you your lost payments for flights and accommodation
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climbnormal: Get the visas. Obey all the laws and regulations to the letter. If you don't and the folks from BICE (what replaced INS) catch up with you, they will make sure you regret it (and likely you will never again be allowed to enter the US). Consider your actions very carefully.
You know that you were previously convicted of a crime. You know that the US regulations require that you apply for a visa. But you don't think it applies to you? Why, exactly? If you come to the US and knowingly violate the visa rules, BICE will come down on you like a ton of bricks.
A fellow that I know is a BICE detention and deportation officer. Believe me, you will get zero sympathy from him.
We don't really have anything to hide, but I'm just not sure that the VWP system is really designed to make life difficult for people such as us.
A fellow that I know is a BICE detention and deportation officer. Believe me, you will get zero sympathy from him.
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Presumably, because Britain does not apparently require US citizens to have visas to enter the UK, Americans with similar criminal convictions that would bar Britons from entering the US are allowed to enter Britain.
Am I the only one who thinks this is odd, and does anyone know why/how this one-sided visa thing between the USA and the UK came into existence?
Also is the fact that one was arrested on suspicion of a criminal offence in the UK grounds for being refused entry to the USA, even though no criminal conviction followed, indeed in circumstances where the arrest was later deemed by a civil court here to have been unlawful?
Am I the only one who thinks this is odd, and does anyone know why/how this one-sided visa thing between the USA and the UK came into existence?
Also is the fact that one was arrested on suspicion of a criminal offence in the UK grounds for being refused entry to the USA, even though no criminal conviction followed, indeed in circumstances where the arrest was later deemed by a civil court here to have been unlawful?
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Thanks for the replies folks.
Yes, I know the rules - and my circumstances... I guess it's off to Grosvenor Square then! I don't seriously expect to be denied a visa, just wondering whether I could avoid the effort of applying.
Have to agree with the sentiment expressing concern about the one-sidedness of the arrangement though. I suppose it's something to do with the U.S. being the most powerful country in the world.
Yes, I know the rules - and my circumstances... I guess it's off to Grosvenor Square then! I don't seriously expect to be denied a visa, just wondering whether I could avoid the effort of applying.
Have to agree with the sentiment expressing concern about the one-sidedness of the arrangement though. I suppose it's something to do with the U.S. being the most powerful country in the world.
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MV
It does not matter why you were arrested or the circumstances, you still need to apply for a visa. The question that is asked is "Have you ever been arrested ?". it then goes on to state even though that arrest may have been subject to a pardon or resulted in no conviction. So even if you were falsley arrested or the arrest was malicious (malfeasance), it doesn't matter to the US department of justice you must declare the fact and enter the US on a visa.
When applying for a visa you are still asked the same question, but can properly explain the result or circumstances. The plus side of this is that it does actually make the process slightly easier in that you will not be asked the same questions on the white I 94 form.
As has already been pointed out the visa waiver programme also waives your right to any appeal, so although it costs money and involves some inconvenience the Visa application is probably the best way to go.
It does not matter why you were arrested or the circumstances, you still need to apply for a visa. The question that is asked is "Have you ever been arrested ?". it then goes on to state even though that arrest may have been subject to a pardon or resulted in no conviction. So even if you were falsley arrested or the arrest was malicious (malfeasance), it doesn't matter to the US department of justice you must declare the fact and enter the US on a visa.
When applying for a visa you are still asked the same question, but can properly explain the result or circumstances. The plus side of this is that it does actually make the process slightly easier in that you will not be asked the same questions on the white I 94 form.
As has already been pointed out the visa waiver programme also waives your right to any appeal, so although it costs money and involves some inconvenience the Visa application is probably the best way to go.
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OK, so having decided to go down the Visa route, I've just been checking out the US Embassy London's website again.
It says you have to provide documentary evidence of your convicton and gives an address at Scotland Yard to write to. Unfortunately, I have no idea now of when my conviction took place although it would probably have been round about 1985/6.
An additional complication is that it says that there will be a considerable delay in processing your application if you are applying with a criminal record. That kind of rules out the whole process for an airline pilot (SH Europe) who is required to carry his passport around with him all the time whilst at work, doesn't it? Why can't you just have an interview with someone on the day and get the visa issued whilst you wait?
I must say (at the risk of appearing to be the geniune highly dangerous criminal that they want to keep out) I'm leaning towards taking my chances under the VWP at the moment.
Land of the free? Hmmmm......
It says you have to provide documentary evidence of your convicton and gives an address at Scotland Yard to write to. Unfortunately, I have no idea now of when my conviction took place although it would probably have been round about 1985/6.
An additional complication is that it says that there will be a considerable delay in processing your application if you are applying with a criminal record. That kind of rules out the whole process for an airline pilot (SH Europe) who is required to carry his passport around with him all the time whilst at work, doesn't it? Why can't you just have an interview with someone on the day and get the visa issued whilst you wait?
I must say (at the risk of appearing to be the geniune highly dangerous criminal that they want to keep out) I'm leaning towards taking my chances under the VWP at the moment.
Land of the free? Hmmmm......
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Bealzebub, I doubt the US would have a database holding details are every criminal record from around the world.
Plus, most countries 'expire' criminal records after 5 or 10 years and I doubt they would supply the US with any information once the record had expired.
Plus, most countries 'expire' criminal records after 5 or 10 years and I doubt they would supply the US with any information once the record had expired.
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Sure,but I dont suppose many want to take the chance based on your doubts. The consequences of a refused entry are much worse. Get a visa and tell them the truth. Unless you have done something really awful, I would assume they will give the application fair consideration.
Most pilots on shorthaul Europe are on occaisions without their passport whilst visa's are issued. If this is not possible do it during a leave period or some other period of low flight duty. Explain your circumstances and request the expeditious return of your passport.
Regarding the expiry of criminal records, that is probably correct but they care that you were even arrested never mind a criminal record. Who knows what they know, but I would still advise getting a Visa if there is any doubt. The final choice of course rests with you, I don't care.
Most pilots on shorthaul Europe are on occaisions without their passport whilst visa's are issued. If this is not possible do it during a leave period or some other period of low flight duty. Explain your circumstances and request the expeditious return of your passport.
Regarding the expiry of criminal records, that is probably correct but they care that you were even arrested never mind a criminal record. Who knows what they know, but I would still advise getting a Visa if there is any doubt. The final choice of course rests with you, I don't care.
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Well, I'm leaning back towards the 'getting a visa' option now. Does anyone know how long a non-immigrant visa is vaild for?
If it's just 3 months, then it gets a bit expensive and complicated if you, for example, wanted to plan a quick shopping trip to NY six months after returning from your initial fortnight's holiday. Or is the process of renewing/applying for a second time a little more of a formality?
It all seems such hard work for the sake of a goddam holiday. By the way, I visited The Islamic Republic of Tunisia in N. Africa last year for a week. Does that stamp on my passport make me a terrorist suspect?
BTW, is it true that if you've visited Cuba you can't enter the US? I would really like to see the place before Castro dies as I'm sure it'll get as spoiled as anything within a very short time following his demise. Yeah, I know they need the foreign money, but there's just a kind of attraction about them being the last communist country in the world. I know any form of totalitarianism is reprehensible by nature, but Cuba seems to have been the most genuinely benevolent of them to date (as long as you didn't try making unwanted political comment in public).
If it's just 3 months, then it gets a bit expensive and complicated if you, for example, wanted to plan a quick shopping trip to NY six months after returning from your initial fortnight's holiday. Or is the process of renewing/applying for a second time a little more of a formality?
It all seems such hard work for the sake of a goddam holiday. By the way, I visited The Islamic Republic of Tunisia in N. Africa last year for a week. Does that stamp on my passport make me a terrorist suspect?
BTW, is it true that if you've visited Cuba you can't enter the US? I would really like to see the place before Castro dies as I'm sure it'll get as spoiled as anything within a very short time following his demise. Yeah, I know they need the foreign money, but there's just a kind of attraction about them being the last communist country in the world. I know any form of totalitarianism is reprehensible by nature, but Cuba seems to have been the most genuinely benevolent of them to date (as long as you didn't try making unwanted political comment in public).
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If you are a regular traveller the UK Passport Agency is more than happy to issue you a second passport to cover the 'passport in for visa' scenario, all you need is a request letter from your employer and to make another passport application - easy. Always amuses me as US immigration dont see my trips to Russia etc. which seem to cause them so much concern...and all sanctioned by the UK Passport Agency as they are aware of the problems such travels seem to cause when entering the US - So I have a 'clean passport, US only' and a 'dirty passport, everywhere else that I have to visit on business' - what a farce!
As of Jan 1 the US Visitor and Immigrant Status Indicator Technology program is scheduled to commence. The blurb states 'Visitors arriving in the US will be fingerprinted and photographed on entry and the information be used to verify their identity on leaving the country'
Well at risk of starting a row and upsetting our American Ppruners - I say f!ck that!
So we are now going to be treated like criminals to enter the USA. Well I am going to enjoy watching the US tourist industry collapse, particularly in Florida, when us 'aliens' take exception to being treated as common criminals just to enter a country. Think it's about time we get US citizens to have a Visa for the UK
As of Jan 1 the US Visitor and Immigrant Status Indicator Technology program is scheduled to commence. The blurb states 'Visitors arriving in the US will be fingerprinted and photographed on entry and the information be used to verify their identity on leaving the country'
Well at risk of starting a row and upsetting our American Ppruners - I say f!ck that!
So we are now going to be treated like criminals to enter the USA. Well I am going to enjoy watching the US tourist industry collapse, particularly in Florida, when us 'aliens' take exception to being treated as common criminals just to enter a country. Think it's about time we get US citizens to have a Visa for the UK
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"Think it's about time we get US citizens to have a Visa for the UK"
Boss Raptor,
That was the point I raised in an earlier post in this thread.
I do not necessarily object to the US authorities insisting on visas (or waiver scheme) for UK citizens if they think it necessary for national security there. However, it seems to be that because the UK does not insist on visas for US citizens coming here then presumably any American can enter this country without being asked to disclose previous convictions.
I was lucky to be able to take early retirement in my early fifties several years ago (not in the aviation industry) and have since visited the USA for holidays on several occasions. I find the country fascinatingly diverse and its people friendly and open on the whole, there are always exceptions as in any country.
However, I have not been back since September 2001 mainly because of some horror stories I have heard concerning US immigration and over-the-top security - probably exaggerated and indeed my son has been to the US twice this year on business with no problems.
As to fingerprinting all visitors to the US, I would have thought this would lead to horrendous hold-ups at the point of entry to the US and of course would upset many from a civil libertarian point of view. I have no particular worry about being fingerprinted and my local airport in the UK (BRS) automatically photographs all departing pasengers to ensure the person checking in is the person who later boards the aircraft.
I also love visiting Canada so my next trips across the Pond wil probably be to there.
I have never been convicted in a criminal court anywhere or arrested anywhere - yet?!
Boss Raptor,
That was the point I raised in an earlier post in this thread.
I do not necessarily object to the US authorities insisting on visas (or waiver scheme) for UK citizens if they think it necessary for national security there. However, it seems to be that because the UK does not insist on visas for US citizens coming here then presumably any American can enter this country without being asked to disclose previous convictions.
I was lucky to be able to take early retirement in my early fifties several years ago (not in the aviation industry) and have since visited the USA for holidays on several occasions. I find the country fascinatingly diverse and its people friendly and open on the whole, there are always exceptions as in any country.
However, I have not been back since September 2001 mainly because of some horror stories I have heard concerning US immigration and over-the-top security - probably exaggerated and indeed my son has been to the US twice this year on business with no problems.
As to fingerprinting all visitors to the US, I would have thought this would lead to horrendous hold-ups at the point of entry to the US and of course would upset many from a civil libertarian point of view. I have no particular worry about being fingerprinted and my local airport in the UK (BRS) automatically photographs all departing pasengers to ensure the person checking in is the person who later boards the aircraft.
I also love visiting Canada so my next trips across the Pond wil probably be to there.
I have never been convicted in a criminal court anywhere or arrested anywhere - yet?!
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Thanks for that info Boss Raptor,
I'll give the second passport a try, might also get a UK passport for the missus at the same time (currently Spanish citizen, despite living here for 17 years and being married for 13).
That should solve most of our problems. I still think it's a bit rich to expect you to go through such a rigmarole just to have a holiday though. Maybe, for the moment, I'll just confine myself to the rest of the world in protest.
So it's one passport for the US and Israel then and another for the rest of the world. Obvious really... Cushty!
I'll give the second passport a try, might also get a UK passport for the missus at the same time (currently Spanish citizen, despite living here for 17 years and being married for 13).
That should solve most of our problems. I still think it's a bit rich to expect you to go through such a rigmarole just to have a holiday though. Maybe, for the moment, I'll just confine myself to the rest of the world in protest.
So it's one passport for the US and Israel then and another for the rest of the world. Obvious really... Cushty!
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Have to agree with the sentiment expressing concern about the one-sidedness of the arrangement though. I suppose it's something to do with the U.S. being the most powerful country in the world.
In this case, however, I would say that it has something to do with the US being the biggest target in the world. You may remember that we have a UK citizen, Richard Reid, in prison after he tried to blow up one of our airliners over the Atlantic.
If you don't like it and don't agree with it and don't want to do it, that's your right. There are plenty of other places in the world to go on holiday.
If you do choose to come to the US, obey our rules and enjoy your stay.
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OFBSLF
Don't seem to remember GWB taking that attitude when he wanted 'our boys' with yours in Iraq.
I think that you really need a bit of an attitude adjustment - reciprocity should be the name of the game - or maybe does that 'special relationship' only operate one way e.g. "Hey there Brits, BOHICA."
By the way, 'your' laws violate many EU laws on data confidentiality - oh, I forgot, Amercian values always prevail, don't they..... maybe that attitude could help you to understand why the USA is the world's no1 target (if we accept your assumption.)
If you don't like it and don't agree with it and don't want to do it, that's your right
I think that you really need a bit of an attitude adjustment - reciprocity should be the name of the game - or maybe does that 'special relationship' only operate one way e.g. "Hey there Brits, BOHICA."
By the way, 'your' laws violate many EU laws on data confidentiality - oh, I forgot, Amercian values always prevail, don't they..... maybe that attitude could help you to understand why the USA is the world's no1 target (if we accept your assumption.)