PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions-91/)
-   -   RAAF Dassault Falcon 7X (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/619985-raaf-dassault-falcon-7x.html)

lurker999 17th Jun 2019 06:05


Originally Posted by patty50 (Post 10495349)
Is the falcon already up and at work? Saw CNS-SYD REGENT92 then to CBR as REGENT94 this morning.

Thought I read Q3 2019 it would be operational? Seems remarkably quick for a new type.

the first of the 7Xs has been operational for some time. The second one will likely enter operational status pretty much as soon as it arrives.

d_concord 17th Jun 2019 07:55


Originally Posted by TBM-Legend (Post 10495376)
Not so. There was a tender which included aircraft and support. The aircraft, like the Challengers and BBJ are leased. Northrop Grumman won...


Thats not correct TBM. The tender was for a managing contractor. As part of that process there was an analysis required of the various aircraft solutions amongst other things. Not a tender for the supply of aircraft. That did not take place.

Northrop did not win at all. There was a two step process which shortlisted a couple of companies. Northrop were in fact knocked out in the first round.

TBM-Legend 17th Jun 2019 08:26

It appears to me that Northrop Grumman has the contract you said they were eliminated from:


The Royal Australian Air Force has selected Northrop Grumman for an A$84 million ($59 million), six-year support package for its special purpose aircraft fleet used to transport VIPs.

Under the package, Northrop will provide logistics, maintenance, engineering, and support for the fleet, which is comprises a pair of Boeing Business Jets 737s as well as three Bombardier Challenger CL604s, which are being replaced by three Dassault Falcon 7Xs.

The company will also support an Airbus Defence & Space A330 Multi-role Tanker Transport (MRTT) specially equipped for VIP use that will arrive later this year. The A330 MRTT is designated as the KC-30A in Australian service.

d_concord 17th Jun 2019 09:08


Originally Posted by TBM-Legend (Post 10495488)
It appears to me that Northrop Grumman has the contract you said they were eliminated from:

Not doubting they are doing it TBM. I know for a fact (not rumour) that they did not win the tender that was run for the managing contractor and two other companies were shortlisted.

They also did not win a tender for the six year period mentioned in your post, so assume there was some provision in the current contract for an extension .

What is certain though is that there was no competitive tender for the supply of aircraft which probably cost circa $150M. Whether they got the right aircraft is certainly open for debate. That there was no tender for supply of aircraft is not.

LeadSled 17th Jun 2019 09:47

Folks,
One thing in the 7X favour, that I have not seen mentioned, is the fact that it is the only aircraft in the class which is a tri-jet, with all that implies for EDTO (and, if the very rare event occurred, a two-engine ferry)
And these are really good aircraft, and sometimes selection is based on other than cheapest available. Airline economics it ain't.
If I was a Commonwealth politician, I would be very happy with the choice.
As a taxpayer, the difference with comparable aircraft is chickenfeed
I can still remember the veritable explosions following Big Mal Frazer's BAC 111 having an engine failure in the middle of the Tasman.
I know the B737 is a "twin", and of course I know all the stats., but I also know a lot of pollies ---- for those wot can afford it, it is why an A-340 is a popular aircraft with lesser heads of state --- at least "common sense" here avoided going down that path, years ago.
Tootle pip!!

TBM-Legend 17th Jun 2019 10:57


I know for a fact (not rumour) that they did not win the tender that was run for the managing contractor and two other companies were shortlisted.
My quote is from a RAAF press release. Not sure you can get closer than that.

The Falcon 7X is the perfect aircraft with, as mentioned, three engine overwater and two engine ferry if required. It has very long legs and excellent short field performance for its class. The 7X is proven in this field too...

This also from RAAF:New Dassault Falcon 7x Special Purpose Aircraft Arrive

16 April 2019

The first of the Royal Australian Air Force’s (RAAF) new Dassault Falcon 7X aircraft arrived in Canberra today.

The new aircraft, being leased by RAAF, replace the Bombardier CL604 Challengers and provide a larger passenger load, modern communication and increased range and endurance.

Wing Commander Jason Pont, Commanding Officer of 34 Squadron said the Falcon complements RAAF’s larger Boeing 737 Business Jets.

“The Falcon 7X is an advanced business jet designed and manufactured by Dassault Aviation,” Wing Commander Pont said.

“The jet has a standard crew of three (pilot, co-pilot and crew attendant) and can carry up to 14 passengers.

“With a maximum operating speed of Mach 0.9 and a range of up to 11,000 km, the aircraft can fly from Canberra to anywhere in the world with only one stop. Its ability to land at almost any airfield provides notable regional and remote airfield accessibility.”

The Falcon features a high-tech wing, an advanced ‘glass cockpit' with a heads-up display and an infrared enhanced vision system. It also has satellite communications to support Government business while airborne.

The aircraft will be operated by Number 34 Squadron as part of the Special Purpose Aircraft fleet, based at Defence Establishment Fairbairn in the Australian Capital Territory.

The fleet will continue to be maintained by Northrop Grumman.

Images

Images will be available from https://images.defence.gov.au



Media contacts

Issued by Ministerial and Executive Coordination and Communication,
Department of Defence,
Canberra, ACT
Phone: 02 6127 1999 Fax: 02 6265 6946

d_concord 18th Jun 2019 01:00


Originally Posted by TBM-Legend (Post 10495613)
My quote is from a RAAF press release. Not sure you can get closer than that.

The Falcon 7X is the perfect aircraft with, as mentioned, three engine overwater and two engine ferry if required. It has very long legs and excellent short field performance for its class. The 7X is proven in this field too...

This also from RAAF:New Dassault Falcon 7x Special Purpose Aircraft Arrive

16 April 2019

The first of the Royal Australian Air Force’s (RAAF) new Dassault Falcon 7X aircraft arrived in Canberra today.

The new aircraft, being leased by RAAF, replace the Bombardier CL604 Challengers and provide a larger passenger load, modern communication and increased range and endurance.

Wing Commander Jason Pont, Commanding Officer of 34 Squadron said the Falcon complements RAAF’s larger Boeing 737 Business Jets.

“The Falcon 7X is an advanced business jet designed and manufactured by Dassault Aviation,” Wing Commander Pont said.

“The jet has a standard crew of three (pilot, co-pilot and crew attendant) and can carry up to 14 passengers.

“With a maximum operating speed of Mach 0.9 and a range of up to 11,000 km, the aircraft can fly from Canberra to anywhere in the world with only one stop. Its ability to land at almost any airfield provides notable regional and remote airfield accessibility.”

The Falcon features a high-tech wing, an advanced ‘glass cockpit' with a heads-up display and an infrared enhanced vision system. It also has satellite communications to support Government business while airborne.

The aircraft will be operated by Number 34 Squadron as part of the Special Purpose Aircraft fleet, based at Defence Establishment Fairbairn in the Australian Capital Territory.

The fleet will continue to be maintained by Northrop Grumman.

Images

Images will be available from https://images.defence.gov.au



Media contacts

Issued by Ministerial and Executive Coordination and Communication,
Department of Defence,
Canberra, ACT
Phone: 02 6127 1999 Fax: 02 6265 6946


TBM,

Nothing here says Northrop won a tender or that the aircraft procurement was subject to a tender. In both cases they weren't . I am not questioning that Northrop have a six year contract to do the maintenance but it was not as result of the managing contract tender.




TBM-Legend 18th Jun 2019 03:17

DEFENCE COMPLETES TENDER EVALUATION FOR SPECIAL PURPOSE AIRCRAFT MANAGING CONTRACTOR ROLE

written by Robert Nutbrown May 5, 2017https://australianaviation.com.au/wp...85933_0119.jpgAs part of a plan to replace the VIP transport service operated by the Royal Australian Air Force from mid-2019, Defence has confirmed that it intends to enter into contract negotiations with a preferred tenderer for the role of managing contractor, having completed a tender evaluation process.

The managing contractor will manage the establishment, delivery and long-term sustainment of the new service on behalf of the Commonwealth.

“Defence is actively working with industry through a competitive, staged procurement process to develop considered options for the Special Purpose Aircraft fleet beyond current contract expiry in mid-2019,” a spokesperson for Defence told sister publication Australian Defence Business Review on May 4.

“Defence intends to present a range of potential options to Government for consideration, including revised support services and considerations for potential fleet replacement in the future.”

In November 2015, Defence released a request for proposal (RFP) seeking a managing contractor to provide services for the maintenance, support and replacement of the Special Purpose Aircraft (SPA) fleet.

The purpose of the RFP, which closed in February 2016, was to identify and assess the feasibility, risk, affordability, value and overall suitability of the range of available capability options and managing contractor methodologies.

Defence undertook an evaluation, and two companies were shortlisted from the RFP respondents in June 2016.

In August 2016, Defence initiated a project definition study to engage with the shortlisted respondents to collaboratively finalise contract requirements and develop a request for tender (RFT).

The RFT was then released to the two shortlisted companies in December 2016, and in February this year the industry respondents tabled their tenders to Defence.

“This tendering activity does not in itself constrain Government consideration to a replacement Special Purpose Aircraft fleet mix – including aircraft type – or when replacement is to occur,” the Defence spokesperson said.

Meanwhile, Defence stated that it has exercised options to extend the current SPA maintenance and support arrangement with Northrop Grumman Integrated Defence Services (IDS) until September 2019 to align with the lease terms of the current fleet.

Northrop Grumman IDS (previously Qantas Defence Services) has since 2001 delivered through-life support to 34 Squadron at Defence Establishment Fairbairn, which operates the current SPA fleet of two Boeing Business Jets (BBJs) and three Bombardier Challenger 604s. All five aircraft, which are leased rather than Commonwealth-owned, entered service in 2002. They are still relatively young aircraft in terms of flying hours, with the fleet recently passing the 50,000 flying hour milestone.

Separate to the SPA process the RAAF’s VIP capabilities are also set to bolstered with the delivery of a KC-30A Multi Role Tanker Transport modified to support long-range government VIP transport needs. It is due for delivery in late 2019.


LeadSled 18th Jun 2019 03:39

TBM-Legend,
Great posts, even if a few around us believe we live in the post-factual era.
My exposure to Dassault Aviation aircraft is somewhat limited, but that experience tells me that they are a "cut -above" most of the competition, some advanced aerodynamic characteristics being part and parcel of that experience.
Tootle pip!!

compressor stall 18th Jun 2019 05:15

I have a mate who was pretty well involved in this process and whilst he didn’t talk much about it, all I know is that the story as best I can piece together fitted d_concirds versión of events. Careful who you accuse of post factual.

Reading that press release, there’s nothing that disproves it either. There was an announcement in the PR that TBM quoted that Northrop got their existing maintenance contract extended. That correlates and would imply they didn’t win the tender as advertised. But there’s still no announcement of who supplied the aircraft.

ftrplt 18th Jun 2019 05:55

The Managing Contractor tender/evaluation was separate to and somewhat ahead of the replacement project.

The intent of the Managing Contractor was to effectively take up the role of CASG and do complete capability management for the Commonwealth (ownership function). For reasons I am not aware, this proposal was not adopted, the Commonwealth remains the manager of the SPA capability (CASG).

NGA is the contracted provider of engineering, maintenance and logistics sustainment of the capability. NGA is contracted by CASG for this capability - this arrangement would have occurred under the Managing Contractor if the above proposal was adopted.

The replacement/extension of the aircraft to provide the capability (604 and BBJ was looked at) was conducted as an Air Force project. Various options were looked at.

Petropavlovsk 18th Jun 2019 14:26

I mentioned two engine ferry when I started the thread, it's a valuable consideration. Not that it would be an everyday occurring event, EFATO off runway 34 at Canberra, night departure out of Port Moresby, Fiji, to name a few; two remaining engines would be comfortable. Two engine ferry a good option.
The maintenance etc, awarded to Northrop Grumman Australia; ? why change a good thing? successful company, procedures, security checked staff.
Maintaining the FA7X, and BBJ's at Canberra, but where is the RAAF fleet of B737 Wedgetail and B737 Poseidon maintained. Are these done by QF in Australia or farmed out to a off shore MRO?
Who will be maintaining the Gulfstream G550 spy planes when they arrive?

Office Update 1st Jul 2019 01:50

The first of the RAAF Challengers has left the fleet. A37-001 is now VH-OFA

Pearly White 2nd Jul 2019 01:08



All times are GMT. The time now is 14:17.


Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.