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-   -   RAAF Dassault Falcon 7X (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/619985-raaf-dassault-falcon-7x.html)

Petropavlovsk 30th Mar 2019 04:11

RAAF Dassault Falcon 7X
 
RAAF Dassault falcon 7X A56-001 currently en-route from France to completion centre in Little Rock, USA
Replacement of Challenger 604's ?

junior.VH-LFA 30th Mar 2019 08:13

Sssshhhhh. Quiet now.

Slezy9 30th Mar 2019 10:59

Isn't this the worst kept secret in the world....

I'm guessing the Government doesn't want to announce a shiny new VIP transport aircraft before the election.

triadic 30th Mar 2019 11:08

What about this one: https://australianaviation.com.au/20...rfare-support/

TBM-Legend 30th Mar 2019 11:24

Hardly VIP..

LeadSled 30th Mar 2019 14:22


Originally Posted by TBM-Legend (Post 10434128)
Hardly VIP..

And not a 7X, either!!
Tootle pip!!

ramble on 31st Mar 2019 01:31

Well if they are getting G550s for surveillance youd think it commonsense to benefit from fleet commonality with that type for VIP too.

Oh hang on.......common sense.



chimbu warrior 31st Mar 2019 04:56

4 x G550's for 2.5 billion; some middleman has seen Australia coming and done nicely out of this.

Global Aviator 31st Mar 2019 05:00

Hmmm 50/60mil by 4 = $$$

The surveillance gear etc is obviously the rest of the billions.

Have they seriously bought a 7X for VIP? Utter madness as said why not a G550/650ER, fleet commonality, types, yadda yadda yadda!

Great for the RAAF jockeys either way when wanting to get out, straight into a corporate gig.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_EL/W-2085

Petropavlovsk 31st Mar 2019 06:13

There is no commonsense when Government's buy or lease aircraft; none at all.
The G550's are expensive with the equipment, but my understanding this also covers 10 year life/maintenance support and maintenance included in package. Maybe even engineers as well?
Dassault 7X to replace CL604 is a very good choice. The 7X by reading respected journals have far superior short field qualities than Global, Gulfstream products. It also give RAAFies a different 'stick' to play with, experience is good. Better still they will be able to do a 2 engine ferry for maintenance if required. The F900's prior to the Challengers were apparently problem free...

neville_nobody 31st Mar 2019 14:26

One has to wonder what the mission profile was. How many airports do they need to fly to that the 650 doesn't get into? Basically they have surrendered common type efficiency and Non Stop Pacific coverage for the expense another type. Not to mention higher fuel burn, higher TBO etc etc
What value have they have put on the short field performance?

junior.VH-LFA 31st Mar 2019 15:36

There’s plenty of valid reasons for selection. Air Force has done type acquisitions pretty well in the last decade.


lucille 31st Mar 2019 23:17

Short field performance is over rated. The list of “shorter fields” which have the required minimum PCN to enable these aircraft to operate from will be not be extensive.
From memory, the 650s ACN was around 30 and the first thing you checked when going off the beaten track to pre war, colonial built runways in Africa. I’m guessing the Pacific will not be different?

Petropavlovsk 31st Mar 2019 23:35

PCN's ? Exemptions are always available for a number of T/O and Landing's over a given period of time.
The G650 has no real country airport practicality..
As an example I think from memory and I may be wrong; the Lear 60 has the highest tyre pressure in civil use other than a B747-400ER ? and that would generally mean about a dozen or so airports in Australia would be suitable for a Lear 60. There is few of the type on the civil register and they seem to fly to aerodromes where PCN exemptions would be important...
Oddly enough, I think the RAAF do get it right in the VIP department. 5500nm range?

ramble on 1st Apr 2019 01:17

5500nm in the back of a 7x or a G550....let me think.
Dassault make a great flying product for the front end but it’s not an intercontinental aircraft.
Ask the F/As where they store catering or rest on a 5500nm leg in a 7X.
Acquisition was done by people with no experience in either.
Dassault gave me my grey hair.
And I can smell the stink of the chemical lav after 12 hours as I type.

neville_nobody 1st Apr 2019 02:01


​​​​​ There’s plenty of valid reasons for selection. Air Force has done type acquisitions pretty well in the last decade​​
What are the top 5 reasons for getting an extra type? Other than a free junket to France every six months for Sim Training? Or are we going to buy a sim as well?

When you already have another suitable aircraft sitting in the hanger why on earth would you go and purchase an entirely new type?

junior.VH-LFA 1st Apr 2019 02:21


Originally Posted by neville_nobody (Post 10435352)


What are the top 5 reasons for getting an extra type? Other than a free junket to France every six months for Sim Training? Or are we going to buy a sim as well?

When you already have another suitable aircraft sitting in the hanger why on earth would you go and purchase an entirely new type?

what suitable type is “in the hangar?”

The challenger needs to be replaced. The G550 is an entirely different purpose specific platform, which will not share crew or facilities. The idea that somehow it would be a level of commonality is a myth.

neville_nobody 1st Apr 2019 02:36

Other than parts, maintenance, training, cost effectiveness of simulators just to name a few.

Sure two different squadrons may operate them but I just can't understand why you would go and buy another type in the same class of aircraft. Even if ACN or TODR is an issue, how many airports are we talking about?

ramble on 1st Apr 2019 03:50

What a wasted opportunity for taking advantage of the obvious efficiencies.

josephfeatherweight 1st Apr 2019 11:06


Originally Posted by ramble on (Post 10435327)
5500nm in the back of a 7x or a G550....let me think.
Dassault make a great flying product for the front end but it’s not an intercontinental aircraft.
Ask the F/As where they store catering or rest on a 5500nm leg in a 7X.
Acquisition was done by people with no experience in either.
Dassault gave me my grey hair.
And I can smell the stink of the chemical lav after 12 hours as I type.

I agree with your sentiments. Personally, I reckon the 7X was a terrible decision, especially given the commitment to the G550s had already been made, and I’m not a huge fan of Gulfstreams either!
PS - does the 7X really not have a vacuum loo?


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