So where is the cargo door on that pic of VWO ? not the same as the pic in post #20. Is it to be done in Oz?

You can see the door frame between the last cabin window and the left engine.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/11/rfds-gets-first-pilatus-pc-24/

This article shows the cargo door and one of the configurations that the stretchers can be in.

Rio Tinto have a big chunk invested in this machine, without their $$$$ this would not have happened!
Be interesting to see how it performs in the real world, not just on paper for feel good' commercial results:-)

I looked into one (Nextant) when I was at Careflight in DN recently, too small, over wing refueling, marginal door access in the Aeromed role, no APU & they don't have the range with a decent payload. Every A/C in the Aeromed role is a trade off. The PC's & B200/350's are great machines but they have their limitations (No APU, a huge disadvantage!) as does the Nextant & the Lear's, the latter LR45 has a lot going for it & is used extensively world wide in that role so personally is the pick of the bunch for most cases.

Folks,
Many of you seem to forget that this company has a long history of building very rugged aircraft, remember the Porter and Turbo-Porter.
What makes some of you think it will not perform to specification, including unsealed runways, all their previous aircraft have a good service record.
Or do you have an inability to not knock something new.
Tootle pip!!

Tonight's Ch 7 news.....one for JT, and one for BRM. (BME)

Cheers

From Wiki - I guess they are just using data to obtain dubious speed figures. Was it on flight tracker for the ferry?

During EBACE 2016, it was commented that the program was on track and test flights had been free of surprises; during a transatlantic crossing to the US, P02 had achieved a cruise speed in excess of 800 km/hr (432 kt.), which was better than expected.

The three prototypes flew 2205 hours including icing conditions and very hot temperatures, outside its flight envelope, bird strikes, structural stress tests and noise tests before it received EASA and FAA type certification on 7 December 2017. Its performance goals were met or exceeded, like its maximum speed raised from 425 to 440 knots (787 to 815 km/h).

I don't understand why they would have one at Broome. The Broome basing would not be cheap.

I cannot see what advantages the Broome basing would bring. Surely, every single job that the Broome aircraft would do, could be done by a Perth/Jandakot aircraft - for the exact same response times.

Nah, still can't see it, Alice. All international jobs would be a secondary retrievals, meaning that response time is not critical. And if those patients were taken to Perth, then there definitely would be nothing gained at all.

Broome to the Rio Tinto mines faster?

Does the fog still hit Jandakot hard?

They have a base in Broome, so I guess it has advantages.

If that was the logic, it would be based at Port Hedland.

Some minor advantages, sure, but now must provide another 4 or so houses for the jet pilots. Not cheap.

4 houses in Port Headland would get you 5 in Broome for the same $'s or less.
You would have a better chance attracting and retaining staff at Broome than the Port.

Probably true, but still much more expensive than basing it in Perth.

When I worked for the RFDS WA Section many moons ago, I think we had 4 or 5 bases other than Jandakot. Of the 5 they have now only Meka and the Port are the same. Some of the others were covered by the Goldfields section and pretty sure Broome came under the Victorian section back then.

So for much of the RFDS operational history shows they operate from bases - so when a new type is implemented, I don't see why the operation now should operate from a single base when using multiple bases has proved effective.

Maybe not all patients in the Pilbara/Kimberley get transferred to Perth? There must be a reason why a base was recently created at Broome...

You also have to include medical staff into this equation. Whilst pilots will go and live anywhere if you show them photos of a flash jet, you can have a reasonable amount of difficulty finding Emergency Medicine Specialists to go and live in remote towns. Broome would be much easier to attract medical staff than just about any other town in the region. It also has much better airline connections.

I don't work for the RFDS but I do know a few pilots based in Hedland and Broome (and Derby when that was the base) that do occasionally go to Darwin rather than Perth. Not sure who makes that decision but it can certainly happen. Having been based in Karratha, I would rather have the jet take an hour and a bit from Broome than 2 hours up from Jandakot if I was waiting for it. But that's just me.

Oh yes I recall the installation of the Omega systems for that. And the talk of shutting down an engine to buy time if needed.

It doesn't work that way.

If you have an accident somewhere other than one of the major centres (Broome, Derby, Wyndham or Kununurra) then it won't be the jet coming to get you. It will be the PC-12. If you then need to go to Perth or Darwin the PC-12 will fly you to one of the major centres, from where you will be transferred to the jet.

It takes hours for that PC-12 transfer to complete. During that time, the jet can be making its way up from Perth. In the end, it will have taken exactly the same amount of time to get you to your final destination. And if you had your accident in one of those major centres, you wouldn't be immediately transferred, anyway. You would go into the hospital at that centre for stabilisation - again taking hours.

If all the communities had airstrips that could take the jet, then it would be a different story. It appears only Balgo Hill has a strip capable of taking the jet - assuming the RFDS are intending to operate on gravel.

What about Halls Creek and Fitzroy Crossing? Both are sealed and are jet capable, but again, both of these places have their own hospitals. And the runways at these two places are a little on the short side, so jet operations may not be possible all year round. This also applies to Balgo Hill (the combination of high elevation and gravel would put the required takeoff distance outside of this jet's capabilities during the hot months, I imagine).

Christmas probably, Cocos definitely not.

So, what is the advantage of basing the jet in Broome? What is the medical scenario that requires the jet speeds?

Folks,
Maybe the name on the side of the first PC 24 is of significance.
I don't know much about RFDS WA financing, apart from being a regular small contributor in NSW Region, but I assume Rio is contributing.
What I do know is that many mining businesses in NW WA have requirements for the availability of 24/7 evacuation services, with a contracted minimum response time, which precluded Perth based crews and aircraft.
Tootle pip!!

Post #55 LeadSled!

I recall seeing Rio in for $2,000,000 on the jet. That will be on top of the normal donations they give the RFDS yearly - I assume.

The government think it was Federal use to match RFDS donations $ for $.

Just saw it go over. Wings bent back a bit, unlike those near-jets... :ok:

Cheers Squark7700

I thought omega was shut down years ago.

I think you will find that the hospitals at Fitzroy Crossing and Halls Creek could be best describes as Clinics with acommodation. They do not have the facilities for major operations or severe intensive care.

The RFDS WA installed Omega into the C441's to "find" Christmas and Cocos Islands in the mid 80's.

I expect that Omega lasted up until GPS was an option and not to many days after.

Last time I was at Halls Creek no auto fuels and was told the tanker will be a few days, many cars were parked up already.

Managed to get a tank of Avgas without to much getting on the tarmac - cost of Avgas (at Halls Creek), the call out, the payment surcharge and Admin fee. Made for the most expensive car fuel I have ever brought.

Got a warning not to tell others on the way out.

Fitzroy Crossing a rung or two below Hall's Creek.

Clinics with accommodation and caring staff, supplied with no tools (or fuel for the genset)

You're talking about the Karratha-based Aspen Medical contract, which operate Citations. You're not talking about the RFDS. The only way a contract can have "minimum response times" is if the aircraft is dedicated to that particular contract, which is the case for this contract between Aspen and Chevron, Woodside, Santos, Shell, and a few others.

The RFDS aircraft are all available for "public" health use. Contracting a "minimum response time" in this case would be meaningless as the aircraft and crews may be tied up for days doing the "public" work. Irrespective of how much money Rio Tinto may have kicked in, I think you will find there is no such contracted "minimum response times" involving the Pilbara mines. How could such a contractual requirement be worded?

Those Pilbara minesites, by the way, are indeed closer to Broome than Perth, but by only about 35 minutes. Any special deal between the RFDS and Rio Tinto would be about the medical response, not whether the aircraft is jet powered. The quickest way to the Pilbara is via the 35 minute PC-12 from Port Hedland, or the 50 minute PC-12 from Meekatharra. The PC-24 from Broome would take about 55 minutes (90 minutes from Perth).

And taking the RFDS rostering and base-standby practices into account, it may be the Perth jet quickest on the scene, anyway. This is because for a large part of the day, some Perth pilots are at the airport, on standby, whereas for the remote bases they are at home and have 30-60 mins (?) to get to the airport.

The "Rio Tinto minesites minimum response times" theory just doesn't add up.

So, what is the point of the Broome basing? What can be achieved other than a bigger medical bill for the taxpayer?

Going to some lengths to make Halls Creek and Fitzroy Crossing sound like backwater communities there, Bend alot. The reality is that those places have substantial hospitals, each with more than a dozen doctors. There is also a St John's Ambulance service in both towns. Any injuries, accidents or illnesses would first go to those hospitals for stabilisation.

“Last year alone (2016), the RFDS flew over 1,100 patients to and from Broome, making it the busiest transport hub in the north of the state.

“20 ongoing jobs have been created to operate the base as a result of the project employing seven pilots, seven nurses, five doctors and a base administrator."


With (then) 7 pilots, I would expect that they actually have a start time to be at work and aircraft ready to go - but that's just a guess on my part.

Now what the RFDS are reported to say is :-

These jets will be capable of short landings and take offs on dirt and unsealed airstrips which is essential to emergency evacuations in many parts of Western Australia, including the Kimberley.

Additionally, with a greater internal space to accommodate three patients and quicker travel time, the PC24 will enable faster response times, increased capacity for carrying and treating multiple patients, and substantial operating efficiency gains.

So a point of the Broome basing (of a jet) is that it is the busiest base in the north of WA, it has an increased capacity 3 stretchers and will get to the patient faster.

https://thewest.com.au/news/regional...-ng-b88949509z

Well said FGD, most have no idea how it all works. Most accident cases that require evac are pre prepped so the jet would only be used when it's beneficial time wise, actually available & convenient, other than that it wont be doing much in the way of work to remote dirt strips as there are too many limitations. The 12's will still do the majority of the work, the Jet is a political thing as well but that's a whole other story!

We assume the RFDS may have used experience of using this jet (below) to base their decision on to put a jet in Broome.

evacuating 867 patients, the majority (73.9 per cent) from the more distant Kimberley and Pilbara regions.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/...b5776943ea17b3

mactuk - FGD was assuming that the Broome base is an "on call", it seems with those staff numbers it might not be. While I will agree the new jet will be used selectively on a selected few unsealed runways, I don't agree it will only be used when beneficial time wise or convenient and it would be hard to use it when "unavailable".

With the introduction of the C441 (first turbine) into the WA fleet it was used if it could do the job, however during my time there they were only based in Jandakot - I don't know if that changed.

They will have a formula/policy for using the jet and several things need to be taken into account including number of patients and where the patients need to be taken.

It will be interesting to find out if the Perth Based or the Broome base jet is utilised more, on the above numbers I would put Broome as the favourite.

Unless times have changed since my time there, the percentage of critical must get to Perth asap / Med 1 is small.

With the centralisation of medical care in Perth (due to cost of machines that go bing) and the dearth of specialists in regional centres, all and sundry ended up in Perth. For a Kimberley based PC12, that means that the aircraft and crew probably can't make it back home at the end of the shift, meaning that the Meeka / Headland crew need to cover the Kimberley on the next shift....and the snowball gets bigger.

By fetching the patients from kickatinalong and blackstumpalong in the PC12, and bringing them to Broome, then the PC24 Broome crew can nip down to Perth and back and the BRM PC12 crew will be home in time for an early dinner. And of course it has the gravel approval for those times when needed when direct PH is preferable from kickatinalong.

FGD 135,
That is what I had in mind, as I made clear (or so I thought), I really had no knowledge of the details of the RFDS actual financial setup, I also thought it was clear that my two bob's worth was speculative.
Tootle pip!!