Where is the Cobham/AMSA SAR Challenger 604???
 

There seems to be no reports coming from AMSA nor media regarding the failed start of the Cobham Challenger 604 in Perth. With the Dornier gone what asset is ready to respond to a major SAR off WA? Has anyone got any information regarding a proposed start or what is happening?

Does this link help? VH-XNC arrives YPPH on Sunday 7th August, ready to start work on the specified contract date, Monday 8th August, 2016.

VH-XNC Bombardier CL-600-2B16 Challenger 604 (MSN 5619) of Surveillance Australia Pty Ltd (Cobham SAR Services Pty Ltd), at Perth Airport, Sun 7 August 2016.

Read: I got knocked by Cobham. Please respond with your gripes here so that we can hook up later.

You've got that completely wrong. Do you assume that anyone who has a concern over SAR in WA is a disgruntled applicant? Nice effort to shut down an important question.

I believe they will only be using the 604 as a static display....

Execujet...
and currently doing drop training/ line training for full scale 24h search and rescue exercise in September..

I believe there are pilots checked to line and the aircraft is available for SAR, but at the moment the focus is on getting everyone checked to line...
i also expect the RAAF P3's probably cover SAR too..

Shouldn't the "focus" be on finding the missing person off WA?

No reports exactly because there are no reports. One needs to do something to make reports something Cobham and the Challenger hasn't done.

Be interesting to see in a year or so's time just how cost effective the squillions being spent
have been. Then again effective and cost don't register in Pollies minds. As long as it looks good.

Cobham offline
 

Yep, no 604 out for the search off Carnarvon, that says it all.

The search for the missing 40 yo fisherman 60nm west of Shark bay has been called off yesterday.
he was last seen 1am on Mon nite, at 630am he was found to be missing.
Media reported numerous aircraft used in search, types not reported.

Poor fellow did not have a life jacket on as all are accounted for on board apparently. Tragic.

As for what aircraft resources AMSA was able to mobilize if the 604 was grounded in Perth is unknown.

Still no coverage in the West and the Challenger is in Adelaide, go figure....must be to replace that engine cowl.

Actually it did drops most of today down south.

They can drop all they like in training scenarios, when it comes to live dropping though, it ain't happening at the moment. Having said that still no coverage for the west. How long can this last.

Lol so you're saying training is pointless?:/ I'm sure they will do exactly as you said to fine tune themselves and the systems.

****box dornier went offline many times, even right up until the end of Perth base, especially at the beginning of their contract.

Don't be such a hater. Change is good. Cobham have a HUGE backing, and Pearl....well they're outta here!

Positive change is good, But wake up, you call the Dornier a **** box? This challenger aeroplane was supposed to be online weeks ago, and still a month to go,so how does that huge backing work? The five Dorniers were on time with crew and equipment on day 1. Its sad that you propose to accept this deficiency as a norm. Seems like you are hating, whatever, mediocre Australia

Furthermore, if you added up all the unscheduled downtime for 4 Dorniers in the last 12 months you won't get 6 weeks, which is at least the amount of time the first jet will be unavailable, brilliant performance eh.jeez

The AW139s that are on their way will help out a lot too.

Read my post, I didn't say training was pointless and never will, what I was saying has now been covered by FMT, and definately not a hater, what my concern is, is that they have known for nearly 2 years that Perth base was due to commission on the 7th August 2016 and they haven't achieved that, yes Cobham have a huge backing, you would think that with this huge backing they would be able to achieve this, something Pearl did get right!!

Perth base was never commissioned to be mission ready only training. Dorniers still flying the contract elsewhere and available if needed.

Well then it's a thing Pearl didn't farm the Door Knockers out at the end of their contract.

The sad fact is the Australian tax payer is being duped. AMSA chose a dud platform. The most likely reason the Challenger is not online is because of lack of approval from CASA. Multiple strikes along the fuselage isn't good. It's a definite concern however it is not Cobham's problem. Cobham held up the shiny slick bid and AMSA took it. AMSA will eventually realise they no longer run the contract. Heads will roll. Soon AMSA will be overrun by former Cobham employees and there will be no turning back. Just ask Customs.

Not more than 100nm off the coast or inland they won't!

You really have drunk the Kool Ade. That is absolute rubbish.

Badengo,your new to this aren't you? Why would anyone contract an aircraft for training only? A contract means you start providing an agreed service at an agreed time.

Given the recurring issues with dropping stores and the limited size and weight (from what is being said here) of stores that can be dropped maybe the Do -328Jet might have been a better aircraft option than a C604 or other rear engine biz jet.

T tail for clearance when dropping stores, similar systems to Do t/prop and readily available P& W 300 series engines.
Was a limited production run aircraft at 110 copies but still in use with numerous operators and this is a specialist role requiring a modified aircraft anyway.

Maybe a bit slow though for transit with a max speed of approx 400kts compared to approx 320kt (?)for the t/prop.

(Can't think of any other jet in that size range with 2 wing mounted engines and T tail )

Just a thought but one that was probably considered and rejected on cost grounds since the 604 is a lot smaller and no doubt cheaper to operate to maximize profits on the contract.

After all,.... its all about min cost & max profit,.... like everything else nowadays.......never mind about choosing equipment that can easily fill the role and do the job without basic fundamental issues,...to help save lives !!!
( sorry, the cynic came out at the end there):E

AMSA may consider termination for any material non-performance or underperformance of the services. For example, AMSA would consider any of the following circumstances to give rise to
material breaches of a resultant contract:

Availability Rolling Period
Average availability across all bases 85% or greater to less than 95% - 6 months

Average availability across all bases 75% or greater to less than 85% - 4 months

Average availability across all bases less than 75% - 3 months

Availability at any one, or more, bases less than 75% - 3 months

Its this last one that will come into consideration in October!!
Interesting days ahead.

XNC was doing extensive aerial work out of YBHI a few weeks ago. Also apparently down in the SE of SA for a while too according to my sources. Since it was apparent that they weren't actually looking for anything (i.e. a downed aircraft), I assumed it was some sort of exercise.

DF.

Definately not looking for a downed aircraft, because there AOC doesn't allow them to conduct live SAR.

XNC is the training rig with first prototype drop chute system. Has been flying it's arse off here! Cameras all over the airframe capturing every drop to fine tune the system that has been chosen.

No AOC issues either, the aircraft is experimental...because it's just that, first of type with extensive modifications.

Operational flying starts beginning of September. As always planned.

Your last sentence is bang on, contractually it's not required to be online early September.

As always planned??? Um, shouldn't the "plan" of been operational flying at the start of contract so there was no coverage gaps, or doesn't anyone care about the safety of the tax payers?

Fact. contractually it was required to be task capable on the start date. Now we are being told cairns aircraft will be a month late. That means even more gaps in the SAR plan. Cobham gonna pretty well do what they want, AMSA has no choice. Less capable aircraft, new sensors which are unitegrated and unproven, an unsafe, or at best ineffective drop system, but hey, at least it's not cheap.

Well, I watched it land yesterday in Perth on runway 24 and it wasn't on the ground until just after the C intersection. That, for those that don't know Perth, is a bit over half way down the runway and the runway is only 2163m long.

I was waiting for it to go spearing through the end onto the grass, but it didn't.

Crock of **** Badengo, contract start date was 8th August. That means the ability to provide full SAR coverage on the 8th August.

Cairns also going to be a month delayed.

All good having unproven onboard sensors, but they are all pointless if they cant drop!!

Ah so you've read the contract then? The start date wasn't for the start of SAR capability but training.

The fully operational machine will be over here within the next week or so, to coincide with the operational requirement start date.

The main holdups in this project has actually been AMSA not supplying crucial data like the size of stores etc until the very last minute. Cobham have met the requirements each step of the way. The aircraft was on time in Perth for AMSA crew training as stated in contract.

Cairns was always scheduled for Jan/Feb 2017.

Yep, pretty much full bottle on the contract, don't know what fairy tale your reading. As far as stores go, the RFT (that's request for tender) stated specifically that the selected aircraft will be capable of dropping the current array of stores. They even provided pictures and specifications - incidentally stating a maximum tested deployment speed of 160 kts-, also it should be noted that visual surveillance which is bread and butter SAR work, is to be done at 130 kts.
Everyone should take note that it appears Cobham are quick to blame their new client as being responsible for their in ability to meet contract imperatives.

Enough!! You guys are insane. Move on and look for another job!

*hot tip 1* prepare for the interview. What ever you do, don't assume you'll get a job because you were employed by the previous contract owner.
*tip 2* don't burn bridges when you move between jobs. (*hint - they might not take you back)

It's really not that complicated!

Now move on.

Thanks for replying for Dashunder regarding reading the contract.

Yes aware of the fact there was a request for information swapping but it didn't come to fruition until very late in the game.

Haha YES!!! So many butt hurt people on here! Im happy either way, if it flies or not I'm still fixing it and paying my bills:)