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Originally Posted by Badengo
(Post 9490607)
Ah so you've read the contract then? The start date wasn't for the start of SAR capability but training.
The fully operational machine will be over here within the next week or so, to coincide with the operational requirement start date. The main holdups in this project has actually been AMSA not supplying crucial data like the size of stores etc until the very last minute. Cobham have met the requirements each step of the way. The aircraft was on time in Perth for AMSA crew training as stated in contract. Cairns was always scheduled for Jan/Feb 2017. |
Originally Posted by bodybag
(Post 9490650)
Enough!! You guys are insane. Move on and look for another job!
*hot tip 1* prepare for the interview. What ever you do, don't assume you'll get a job because you were employed by the previous contract owner. *tip 2* don't burn bridges when you move between jobs. (*hint - they might not take you back) It's really not that complicated! Now move on. |
Originally Posted by TwistedWindsock
(Post 9491919)
Not a lot of people applied for the job because of such poor conditions not to mention the lack of flying. Some of the posts on this thread are not all applicants but those dismayed at such a poor result. Many AR crews moved on to much bigger a better things than Cobham could ever offer. Some commenting may be the very people you work with or indeed the client you work for. There is much concern in the JRCC. There are major questions to be asked especially about safety and I encourage anyone to express their concerns openly in such a forum. To dismiss it as just rejected applicant whinge is arrogant and unforntunate.
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You have to wonder what is happening inside the walls of Cobham, still not online in Perth, no flying there for over a week now, and Cairns is only a little over 4 weeks away, and the word is Cairns are already a month late. Hmm
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http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHXND
XND was doing some work off the coast of Adelaide & down to Kangaroo Island today. Not sure whether it was just an exercise or what was going on. DF. |
Originally Posted by Desert Flower
(Post 9510624)
VH-XND ? FlightAware
XND was doing some work off the coast of Adelaide & down to Kangaroo Island today. Not sure whether it was just an exercise or what was going on. DF. |
How come the media hasn't got hold of this yet?
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Wasathangi! How dare you hijack this thread! This space is for disgruntled people who didn't get a job! Don't be coming in here trying to tell us that Cobham are competent or that the 604 is the right machine for the job! A fast intercontinental jet for maritime rescue response in a country like Australia! It doesn't make sense!!
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No media Coverage? must be a political exercise, there is no way such an expensive and time critical contract would be allowed to run so far out of control.
Let's recap, as predicted, Perth late by 2 months, so far Aircraft not sensor ready mission management system unproven, and not integrated with other sensors. Aircrew not trained, except with whatever simulation is available. Resignations and dismissals already placing a burden on crewing numbers Cairns base not ready, no infrastructure, crew not trained 2 weeks to go. No approved drop system, unlikely in the near term to drop large useful equipment without hitting airframe,engines. Once airborne 4 hrs burn off required to get to landing weight. AMSA management ducking and weaving, realising they now have no control of the product they thought they were getting, it's become obvious to them that Cobham will dictate the conduct of SAR operations in the future |
That is a dramatic post!! You must be an insider! You have so much ACCURATE and RELEVANT information! Even under the anonymity of you handle, you are managing to embarrass yourself. Posts like this really highlight the child like maturity level we are dealing with.
There is a lot more to this than your obviously limited intellect can process. Invest your time in your job search. Cobham won the contract. Nobody is more disappointed than you. |
AFTERBURN WROTE: 4 HOURS TO BURN DOWN TO MLW.
STREUTH BRUCE, WHATA A REVELATION!!!!!! IF your flight is to do circuits in Melbourne, you put a fuel load on to land below MLW. If you plan to takeoff from Melbourne, overfly Learmonth and do a task 400nm off the west coast then land at Hedland, you will probably carry enough fuel for the task which might mean ya can't do circuits in Melbourne after takeoff. Www.seek.com.au might help your condition. |
Hey, there's always the RAAF for a bit of fill-in SAR. They don't have much to do at the best of times. :)
Family of four rescued from boat off Exmouth after being found by an RAAF aircraft |
To be devil's advocate - how much have Cobham been hindered by the useless regulator. I submitted documentation for approval in May 2015. I need the work approved to help run my business and earn some money. 16 months later I have had back one request to clean up some typos and phraseologies - and that's it. How is any business supposed to function effectively when held to ransom like this.
And no disrespect to the people at CASA - it is a shot at a unit made dysfunctional by beuracracy, snouts in troughs and a total self focussed government. |
You Cobham guys wanna update this page
http://www.cobhamaviationservices.com/careers/roles/amsa-roles |
Originally Posted by bodybag
(Post 9520866)
That is a dramatic post!! You must be an insider! You have so much ACCURATE and RELEVANT information! Even under the anonymity of you handle, you are managing to embarrass yourself. Posts like this really highlight the child like maturity level we are dealing with.
There is a lot more to this than your obviously limited intellect can process. Invest your time in your job search. Cobham won the contract. Nobody is more disappointed than you. Cobham have had 2 years to get this right. Its a Joke. |
Originally Posted by Eclan
(Post 9523175)
Dashunder, you and FMT AB have made a significant number of posts on this topic, a number which goes beyond a casual disappointment with the contract development process. You say it's not due to missing out on a job; so what is your real motivation in denigrating this operation at every turn? It's hard to believe it's a case of tax-payer anger and not a personal grudge.
Why are you so affected and bothered by Cobham's SAR contract that you look for every possible sign of underperformance or failure? Be honest. 80+ people lost their jobs. Good people. An Australian company got kicked to the kerb by another multinational. I do understand that there is a degree of uncertainty that comes with this type of operation but the current contract has serious flaws. Cracks are appearing and word is getting out. Cobham selected only a handful of personnel and many did not even apply as the pay and conditions were frankly insulting. Most have happily moved on. You're still going to get people asking the questions and sticking the knife in. There are many disappointed people, former, current crew and client feeling that this contract is becoming a total farce. Time will tell. So far it is not looking good and you can only drink the Kool-aid for so long. |
Originally Posted by Eclan
(Post 9523175)
Dashunder, you and FMT AB have made a significant number of posts on this topic, a number which goes beyond a casual disappointment with the contract development process. You say it's not due to missing out on a job; so what is your real motivation in denigrating this operation at every turn? It's hard to believe it's a case of tax-payer anger and not a personal grudge.
Why are you so affected and bothered by Cobham's SAR contract that you look for every possible sign of underperformance or failure? Be honest. Many SAR helicopter companies I have worked for have had no problems taking over a contract from another operator at the stroke of midnight seamlessly. Even when swapping out with new types and new FLIR/role equipment etc. of course there will alway be gremlins but at least the capability was always there. It is justified questioning the performance Cobham and AMSA at this stage of the game. Either Cobham are doing a **** job or AMSA are guilty for allowing it to happen. You can't really argue with that. |
Oh dear, XND made it to Perth, but not for long, back to Adelaide, what for this time.
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Oh dear indeed Dashunder,
You have no idea what your talking about. You speak uninformed rubbish.. but if it makes you feel better just keep on banging on. ..and BAT74, 80 + good people lost their jobs and the contract went to a multi-national. Firstly its 2016. Get with the global program. Kicked to the kerb?? Whatever you weirdo. Secondly, believe it or not Cobham only selected those that were suitable. Be it skills or be it attitude, if only a hand full were selected, it speaks volumes of where the previous contract offering was at. Sometimes a good old clean out is just what the doctor (or contract owner) ordered. I feel for you guys, I really do. I've been there. I just cannot see how this carry on is beneficial? If you want to have a winge with old coworkers, why not set up a private Facebook group or something? |
Not a player, just a taxpayer
I overheard a conversation the other day that included a discussion of 604 performance. If I heard correctly, to achieve the required SAR drop speeds the 604 would need to be flying with full flap / slats. If this is correct, just wondering what the usable range could be if recovery needed to be planned around flap failure at about 170 knots (at 10,000 feet if we throw in depressurisation as well) regards layman |
this is correct, just wondering what the usable range could be if recovery needed to be planned around flap failure at about 170 knots (at 10,000 feet if we throw in depressurisation as well |
Originally Posted by bodybag
(Post 9524708)
Oh dear indeed Dashunder,
You have no idea what your talking about. You speak uninformed rubbish.. but if it makes you feel better just keep on banging on. ..and BAT74, 80 + good people lost their jobs and the contract went to a multi-national. Firstly its 2016. Get with the global program. Kicked to the kerb?? Whatever you weirdo. Secondly, believe it or not Cobham only selected those that were suitable. Be it skills or be it attitude, if only a hand full were selected, it speaks volumes of where the previous contract offering was at. Sometimes a good old clean out is just what the doctor (or contract owner) ordered. I feel for you guys, I really do. I've been there. I just cannot see how this carry on is beneficial? If you want to have a winge with old coworkers, why not set up a private Facebook group or something? |
Originally Posted by BAT74
(Post 9525283)
Ha! resorting to name calling. You're such a pro at this. If you can't handle the heat maybe you should stick to Facebook
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"I overheard a conversation the other day that included a discussion of 604 performance. If I heard correctly, to achieve the required SAR drop speeds the 604 would need to be flying with full flap / slats."
No not even close Layman. Whoever is giving you your info should be shoved in a blender. Firstly, the 604 has no slats. As for the speed - nope, doing a RAT drop test flight has the aircraft back at under 140kt with just one stage of flaps. So drop speeds with one stage of flaps, Flap 20, is no problem. BTW, there are 3 stages of flaps. |
Originally Posted by Trevor the lover
(Post 9525329)
No not even close Layman. Whoever is giving you your info should be shoved in a blender. Firstly, the 604 has no slats. As for the speed - nope, doing a RAT drop test flight has the aircraft back at under 140kt with just one stage of flaps. So drop speeds with one stage of flaps, Flap 20, is no problem. BTW, there are 3 stages of flaps. What's the plan when the flap doesn't retract? Recovery at FL140? Below 231 knots. Hope that's factored into the bingo fuel! The more I hear about this operation the more I'm worried about the potential for an accident. Wrong aircraft for the job. |
Secondly, believe it or not Cobham only selected those that were suitable. Be it skills or be it attitude, if only a hand full were selected, it speaks volumes of where the previous contract offering was at. |
Originally Posted by Trevor the lover
(Post 9525329)
"I overheard a conversation the other day that included a discussion of 604 performance. If I heard correctly, to achieve the required SAR drop speeds the 604 would need to be flying with full flap / slats."
No not even close Layman. Whoever is giving you your info should be shoved in a blender. Firstly, the 604 has no slats. As for the speed - nope, doing a RAT drop test flight has the aircraft back at under 140kt with just one stage of flaps. So drop speeds with one stage of flaps, Flap 20, is no problem. BTW, there are 3 stages of flaps. Furthermore selection of aircrew by an HR department without experience in SAR is hardly an endorsement of that proffesionals experience and capability, AMSA had an opinion of people who they would like to have seen supporting the implementation of this new contract, these recommendations were ignored and possibly put the aircrew at a disadvantage, such was Cobhams desire to " create" a new culture. |
Ttl - thanks
RENURPP - my understanding is that RAAF plans for 'worst case' P3 recovery with one engine out, depressurised. I'd assume Cobham SOP would be similar. Slezy9 - thanks |
The Danish Air Force has been using this type for SAR for many years quite successfully.
So what's the problem?? RDAF Eskadrille 721 (721st squadron). 4 x Canadair CL-604 Challenger |
Originally Posted by wasathangi
(Post 9525540)
Oh, not to mention that there is a lot of good experienced guys there,,,:ok::ok:
And no, I'm not bitter. I didn't work for the previous mob, and I was offered a job. Turned it down, not enough money and a bumbling HR department turned me right off! |
The 604 variants may come with or without slats The Danish Air Force has been using this type for SAR for many years quite successfully. Turned it down, not enough money and a bumbling HR department turned me right off! |
Slezy 9 and FMT - not sure why I'm writing this because clearly you guys cannot read. Where did Trev say that the SAR drops would be done at 140kts?? I said, quite clearly, that RAT drops are done at Flap 20, 140kts. I DID NOT say that would be the drop speeds for SAR. The drops speeds will be quite a lot higher and therefore there is a safety buffer.
And I standby for the photos of the 604 with slats. ha ha |
Danish SAR is more than a minor sub-mission>>CL-604 CHALLENGER
ROYAL DANISH AIR FORCE The CL-604 Challenger was originally a civilian aircraft, and it also performs some civilian tasks in the Royal Danish Air Force. It is normally the CL-604 Challenger that carries out VIP flights for the Danish government, the Royal family or Defence Command Denmark. The Danish CL-604 version has had several modifications so we can use it for a variety of missions. Approx 140 days a year the Challenger is deployed to Greenland to perform surveillance and SAR operations over the largest island in the world. With the SLAR and FLIR it has an excellent capability for maritime surveillance in the environmental pollution control role. With the Ocean Eye Radar strapped under its belly it detects ships and icebergs when it operates in the surveillance mode for control of the Fishery zones around Greenland and the Faroe Islands. In both configurations the communication facilities matched with the sensors provide a fine platform for “On Scene Commander” Search and Rescue operations.The aircraft even has a capability to drop life rafts, buoys for collecting samples of pollution and smaller bundles. Configured with seats we can transport 6 – 8 VIP passengers or up to 18 regular passengers. If need be also medical evacuation can be performed carrying patients on stretchers (small injuries). |
Hi TBM - my knowledge of the RDAF's utilisation of their 604s is not based off an airshow website. Whilst not trying to diminish their capability (or your comment), their primary role (by a HUGE margin) is maritime surveillance, particularly fisheries patrol and pollution monitoring. I'm sure they do a brilliant job of SAR, but it forms a very very small part of their tasking - which is completely different to the AMSA Cobham 604s.
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Wasathangi don't be such a wonker. I would have more idea than you would probably ever guess.
Look at my points in context. I was responding to layman saying the drops would have to be done with full flaps and slats. My response initially was not to do with the drops themselves per se - I was pointing out that the aircraft can fly at 140kts with just flap 20 (no I do NOT advocate this config outside of the test flight)- so in context it was debunking Layman's post saying drops have to be done full flap to be able to fly slow enough. You say I have no idea - well mate, MY 604 AFM says min speed clean 170, F20 160, F30 150 - so why is a drop at 180kt clean unsafe when it is 10 kts above the min speed? Please give me your enlightened answer. And if you think I have no idea, then I will happily scan and present my AFM showing the min speeds AND the RAT drop profile. Then maybe you can say the AFM has no idea. Answer my post then YOU can go away - and don't come back. |
And also Wasawanki - I love this quote
As for slats....get real, the aircraft is only 48200lbs (22t round number) What does the weight have to do with it dopey. Why do other jets of the same weight have slats then - Falcon 900 for instance. Who has no idea????? |
15 inches at idle Trev. All other facts will confuse them :)
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This thread is starting to get off track.
The fact is, Perth was supposed to be online on the 8th of August, and they are still not online. Cairns is due next week. |
Originally Posted by Trevor the lover
(Post 9526666)
And also Wasawanki - I love this quote
As for slats....get real, the aircraft is only 48200lbs (22t round number) What does the weight have to do with it dopey. Why do other jets of the same weight have slats then - Falcon 900 for instance. Who has no idea????? |
You're welcome, TREVOR.... No need for it, it's meant to be a discussion about Cobham's delayed introduction of the 604s to SAR service and the reasons behind it. |
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