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-   -   Matt Hall loads his pants! (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/417311-matt-hall-loads-his-pants.html)

remoak 12th Jun 2010 09:45

Precisely... and the only point to it all is the avoidance of litigation. That's a pretty sad state of affairs...

Wallsofchina 12th Jun 2010 11:40

And the saving of lives, but let's not slow down a good bleat

Tibbsy 12th Jun 2010 11:47


Precisely... and the only point to it all is the avoidance of litigation. That's a pretty sad state of affairs..
Unfortunately, risk management principles are often poorly taught, understood, or applied. Like anything, if it's not done properly then it's probably not worth doing.


Captain Sand Dune is on the money when he says:

Used properly it is actually reasonably useful
:ok:


Interestingly, the RBAS has been running for eight years now - no fatalities or serious injuries that I'm aware of (happy to be corrected here if I'm wrong). Beginning in 2003, the first crash didn't even occur until 2010. If this race is inherently dangerous (it is!), then I respectfully suggest that there has been more than just dumb good luck at play. Perhaps the RBAR risk management plan has been pretty effective in mitigating the inherent risks eh? ;) - which after all, is the raison d'être of aviation risk management.

remoak 12th Jun 2010 12:05


I respectfully suggest that there has been more than just dumb good luck at play
It might also have something to do with pilots not particularly wanting to die, or kill others... maybe?

The Reno Air Races went five years without a serious incident... and then in 2007, blam! three fatal crashes. I hope you are not suggesting that these races, held in the most litgious country on the planet, were not the subject of intensive "risk mitigation" studies.

Perhaps the principles of safety have been around for considerably longer than the now fashionable "risk mitigation" process has?

I'm not suggesting that it is an innately bad thing to adopt these processes, but for goodness sake see them for what they actually are - a bureaucratic box-ticking exercise that keeps the lawyers happy and simply affirms existing best practices, while generating masses of largely superfluous paper.

Tibbsy 12th Jun 2010 12:33

I don't reckon anyone commits aviation with an intent to kill themselves (or others) but that doesn't stop it happening with monotonous regularity in other aviation disciplines which aren't characterized by formal risk management processes.


but for goodness sake see them for what they actually are - a bureaucratic box-ticking exercise that keeps the lawyers happy
on the whole, I agree with you but again point out that risk management only becomes a bureacratic box-ticking exercise, when done badly. It's just that it is done badly a lot!

As with any trend taken up by the managerial class, there has been a swing too far in one direction which will, in time, self-correct to a more sensible implementation; this has already happened in several large aviation organisations. But there is nothing wrong with the either the fundamentals of risk management, or the outcomes achieved when risk management principles are correctly appplied.

The problem is not risk management, it is the poor implementation (and understanding) of it. :ok:

Damien1989 16th Jun 2010 02:18

Matt Hall out of New York Red Bull Air Race, accepts decision|Matt Hall Racing

Looks like Matt Hall has been stood down for the New York event by the race committee.

Wallsofchina 16th Jun 2010 03:10

10/10
Safety Rules were in place
Race Committee investigated incident
Corrective action of penalty taken
Pilot identifies risk level
Operations move back in direction of more safety
Risk is lowered
Everyone involved positive
More fun for spectators coming up

All boxes ticked

spindoctor 23rd Jun 2010 09:56

FYI


Hello to All,



I am writing everyone today to let all of you know that as of two days ago our company, MX Aircraft, formally excluded itself from supplying aircraft for use in the Red Bull Air Races. Many things have contributed to our decision to withdraw from the sport (show) including first and foremost the arrogant unsafe and foolish approach to aviation exhibited by those currently running the races. If it were an honest sporting event I believe the constant grief associated with involvement might be overlooked but unfortunately it is not. What all of you see and think you know about the air race is a far departure from the truth. My personal dealings with the big Austrian company over the years have done nothing but make my blood boil and my hair turn grey so I finally woke up two days ago and decided enough was enough. Life is simply too short to be constantly pushed around, lied to and underappreciated. I also believe it will be just a matter of time before worse things happen than someone ditching in the water and I don’t wish to be a part of that.



We will again focus our attention toward manufacturing first class aerobatic and sport aircraft which is the main reason we developed our planes to begin with. If there’s one positive I can draw from my experience with the RBAR it’s that we have been forced to continually refine our planes over the years and as a result we are now producing 1150 pound six cylinder all composite aircraft. Pretty amazing as back a year or two ago I for one never thought it would be possible. And it appears you can run them into the water pretty hard and survive also.



I fully expect to be punished by Red Bull in the near future for this statement as I’m sure they will use their ever powerful media machine to make false accusations and mop the bathroom stalls of aviation with my company but I just wanted to give everyone a personal explanation for our departure from their series. At this point I really don’t care what they do, I am just relieved to be removed from the madness!



Thank you all for your time and understanding in this matter.



All the Best!



Chris Meyer

MX Aircraft


Well done Chris.

remoak 23rd Jun 2010 11:31

Wow...............

Keg 23rd Jun 2010 13:15

Do we know if that letter from MX is legit?

Dangly Bits 23rd Jun 2010 13:33

I'm with Keg.

This could be either a great hoax or really big news.

spindoctor 23rd Jun 2010 18:43

No Hoax.

This email was sent by Chris on the 18th, and has since been independently confirmed.

Furthermore I can completely understand his reasons for doing what he has done, having been on the receiving end of the RBAR circus.

Be clear in your mind the RBAR is not about the "worlds best pilots", it is about Red Bull selling a drink!

Mick.B 24th Jun 2010 10:39

Cant find a single thing on the net about this. You got a link or anything else to go on.

AirSic 24th Jun 2010 16:43

Are you sure? I don't think so.......
 
There is nothing released anywhere else on this matter.

If you have been "forced" to improve your product to a point that you would never have thought possible and you are happy with these developments, what is the real issue here? You have made money from these developments, no?!?!

"I don't want people to use my product irresponsibly"....are you kidding?!?! You are going to continue producing and selling high performance aerobatic aircraft but are stressed about how they are being used.....I'll bite.....where is the punch line here?

Yes, RBAR is sponsored by Red Bull who produce beverages....car manufacturers sponsor racing events...alcohol and cigarette companies do the same. These events are dangerous but you don't see Ford or Holden worried about "how their products are used"...to the contrary.

I would think that you would be on top of the world with International recognition of your product.

If there is more to this story, and there has to be for it to be correct, then post some examples or give us some details as to why the RBAR is as menacing as you suggest otherwise I see nothing here other than a huge prank with some serious liability issues.:=

spindoctor 24th Jun 2010 22:19

It is no hoax, drop them a line if you like MX Aircraft Official Website

I doubt if Red Bull would be shouting this from the rooftops, and as Chris points out they will undoubtedly be using their powerful and effective resources to show themselves as the good guys.

Chris Meyers has outlined his reasons for making this move, he is an honest businessman with a lot of integrity (and has a great product).

I could fill this page with my dealings with RBAR, and if Tom Moon was still with us he could do so as well (plus a few others that I know). If what I went through was only a small part of what Chris has had to put up with, then I can fully understand his move.

I have no fear in saying publicly that RBAR are a dishonest company to deal with.

Wallsofchina 25th Jun 2010 07:00

I would think something as momentous as this would be on the News section of his website Spindoctor.

Your name is beginning to make me nervous.

djpil 25th Jun 2010 07:41

That MX email is on the "IAC Exploder" email list - you can see the original plus replies here and here. I haven't had any dealings with RBAR and personally I'd choose not to deal with Chris Meyer.

spindoctor 25th Jun 2010 10:03

Djpil

Well I guess that would be entirely up to you, but he gave me a big break when he didn't need to legally or morally (try sleeping at night with a 1/2 mill+ commitment?)

No spin from me, despite the name. I am happy to standby any and all of my statements.

Mick.B 25th Jun 2010 22:34

Its Fair Dinkum. Thanks for the heads up Spinny. Hope they can sort it out for the teams sake who use his aircragt.


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