Div 1 - Not advantaged by a service point, ever ?
Unless you are amongst a very small group of sparkies who were shafted by this system you are telling porkie pies
and didn't vote the system in ?
Possibly not but it was like it or not a democratic process and one touted by our own exec as the one ! believe that !
For your and everyone's benefit the vote got over the line by 12 votes Aus wide and our Fed Sec at the time, a right Wally, decided against a re-vote/count back even though it shat in the faces of the very people who had supported him
The points system truly disadvantaged the Avionics stream and cut off at the knees our 'unborn' as they say, it's quite boring now that the people who voted it in are starting to feel the constraints of quota levels and are crying poor short term gain long term pain

Sunfish, you have peaked my curiosity I want to know who this worm is ? is he religious ? :E

G'day Sunfish
 

All those little guys at Asian MROs can't have their little EBA session, bcoz it's against the law ! Thank God we live in Oz even if our rights have been watered down.

Otherwise I agree, QF will get a big shock if they outsource bigtime into Asia, especially MAS ! The work isn't done and they can never gey a plane out of the shed ontime.

But will QF management listen? Not on your life !

Well done guys good to see you stuck together this time.

my point is we were told not to take less than 5%.it is what we want and should not accept less. i do understand how hard it is and know they are trying hard.i know qf are hard to deal with but i find it hard to understand how you all believe it is a great deal. better than the first? yes a little. great to see level 3 gone? yes and hope next time level 4 gone. but do not try and tell me we won the fight. it may be selfish but it is what pays my bills.

Screwed and skinned
 

Sunfish,

I don't have family in Qantas, but I do know more than a little about doing business in Asia and I couldn't agree more. The more that maintenance is moved to Asia to more the airline will be screwed and skinned in the future as those economies shrug off their dirt cheap status, invest in better skills and equipment, and decide holy cow we aren't here to be somebody else's cheap source of labor no more.

I think flight training facilities and maintenance have a good future in this country and Qanas and the Virgins will have to pay a price to get back what they throw away.

Your figures are a bit wrong there mate. You have failed to factor in the expansion of the difference in the upper grades that ensures that nobody gets less than the 16% over 4 years regardless of their level.

70% of LAMEs are still on defined benifit schemes and at level 11, most are long serving employees who have stayed on their original scheme. At level 11 we estimate that 90% will benifit from the taxation savings on super that puts an additional hit of 2.2% on top from the date of lodgement. Averaged over 4 years this gives 4% plus .55% total 4.55%pa. 19 members will not get the super hit thus get the bare bones 4% unless they are new employees who get 1% extras super straight up.

Some members at other levels will also get the bare bones 4 but please remember that we inherited a system that had built in caps and not every problem will be fixed at once. More members will exceed 5% pa because of this EBA than those who will get 4% pa. Those who get 4% are now going to be more likely to move up if they get training.

When do we get to vote ?

The vote date is not set yet but will be about 10 Aug.

cheers ..........

For the few that maybe didnt do as well as the majority,take note of the great support that this deal is receiving!
No matter what deal was thrashed out,there was always going to be a few that felt it wasnt to their benefit but lets pay credit where its due-the work that has been put into this deal by our executive is nothing short of amazing considering what they have been up against and knowing exactly where to start and stop without provoking massive reaction from our employer and the government just to name 2 is definitely worth taking on board and in the end we all got something without too much pain and in the scheme of things-its a very fair deal and for the guys who got the greatest benefit,good on them,and for the rest-there is still something pretty fair and worth a few dollars for us.Well Done To All.

As far as I'm concerned, as good as this deal is, I think we should put the company on notice that next EBA we want the quotas / levels / training / service points fixed !!!



SpannerTwister

question to the fed sec
 

Fed sec, if qantas change the terms of the in-principle agreement like last time, what is our course of action then? Or is the in-principle agreement legally locked in place??

Fed Sec Said : - In regard to worst case scenario : Level 11

For my Own Curiosity ?
Are the majority of LAMEs in Div 3 because that’s where QF put the TN guys after the "merger".

Are 70% LAME really on Defined benefit?

Div 1 Super - Accumulative
Div 2 Super - Mostly Accumulative small part Defined benefit
Div 3 Super - Defined Benefit Total
Div 4 Super - Don't Know
Div 7 Super - Accumulative but salary sacrificed contributions

Anyone care to shed some light?

Spanner said
Lets think big picture
I want to see same shift penalties for all.

Careful there Bolty, once the 'new starters' ( read no dayshift penalties) out number the 'old timers' you might find we WILL all get the same shift penalties !! :eek:

My concern is that the company is watching..."Hi guys"....and depending on the level of members exceptance, depends on how much the QF offer document will differ from the Associations document. If the company are "fair dinkum" then the two documents will be identical. If they are not...then all we are doing is getting the fleet back up to scratch, only to start all over again when the vote goes down, and be accused in the media of renegging on the "agreement" again. Perhaps this is my cinical personality, but somehow I cant seem to bring myself to trust the company any more.

Bolty, I'm thinking the same thing..

I'd be prepared to take the minimum if it meant we could get the post '96ers their dayshift penalties.. Maybe not palatable to some but I would consider it fair.

fixitdude
 

Hmm......

I'd hope the company certainly wouldn't try to do anything underhanded like change the agreement.

Right now, they've got 1600 LAME's who are not at all happy with management, and I think it would only take one incident like that to trip all 1600 over the edge..........

You accused us of having a go-slow....You ain't seen nothing yet !!!


SpannerTwister

I guess we just have to wait "in good faith"

What's The Future
 

Division1,
When the grading scheme came in most people benefited from service points unless they had so many licenses that they equated to the quoted levels. These days with management saying no more training there is a lot of LAMEs that are on the bottom grades with service points their only way to progress.

TMF,
I think the disadvantage is to all trades for accepting bolt on payments after the manager cried poor mouth and warned our members to consider no payment so we might have a chance to get the contract as management did not see us as the ‘preferred’ customer. (what’s changed?)

Still, that was a while ago before we were united together.
In a perfect world I would like to see all LAME,s in the top grade, but as that’s not going to happen and it will take 16 years for a level 4 LAME to get to level 8 without training, then we need to show the company that it is advantages to them to have the best trained workforce at their doorstep and not just engineers who do ‘warranty work’ for inferior O/S MROs.
It is just lucky for QANTAS that they didn’t force our hand to go to 8 hour shifts because I for one would have campaigned that going back on extended hour rosters meant same shift penalties for all and no it wouldn’t be backwards , as everybody is disadvantaged away from their family/friends equally.
I like cotton shirts as well!

I see penalty rates as a federal government issue that should be standardized for all aussies. The association should be be pursuing this thru their ATCU connections so that it is law and then Q can't use it against us.