Zanthrus,

Maybe they get their training paid for because they volunteer to deploy and potentially die for you? What a bitter outburst.

Just a thought.

Haha! I needed a good laugh!

Also, you might want to head back and complete year 12 English before you apply... There, their and they're are easy to confuse!

I think they tripped over the civvie standards on the way into the RAAF.:}

Zanthrus you are a clown. Clearly you have never been in the ADF so you are not qualified to comment (or spell either by the look of it).

There are many GA Pilots that have gone to fly in the ADF and also many ADF Pilots that have gone to fly in GA after their ROSO is up. They have done both and can hold whatever opinion they like.

Unlike Zanthrus (although I suspect that post was a wind up), no issue here with some RAAF pilots joining airlines, but please when you get there don't complain about how you find airline flying boring and you're only "taking" the job for the money and the lifestyle, there's plenty of guys and gals slogging it out in GA and cadetships who would crawl over broken glass to get a major airline gig, it'd be their career dream. And yes these pilots from a purely "civvie" background (who'd comprise at least 90% of your new work colleagues) can fly planes, and fly them well, and have had varied backgrounds and experiences, just like you.
Otherwise welcome aboard

I'm not going to have a go at standards required or probably more accurately the personalities wanted in the military vs the airlines, but I will say there have been former military pilots who have failed selection processes at airlines and who have failed training courses at airlines, success at one doesn't guarantee success at another.

Thread revival - how many have their apps in with Qantas?

323. I just checked

I'd heard 327...

...which would be the total number of pilot's in the RAAF? :O

There are a lot of good opportunities for a smart pilot to gain early captaincy on B737 and A330 and C-17, multi-engine overseas airways time. Then when their return of service is up, they naturally will hop to the airlines.

In the Bad Old Days only the Herc, Orion and the VIP pilots had an easy path.

The word is that very few RAAFies got a call up to the second stage with Qantas...

Surely this thread needs a refresher...I hear the exodus has begun.

Shades of 87/88?

A hint to anyone wanting to fly for Qantas. HR pretty much runs all recruitment now. So no need to bone up on anything technical (eg engine types, destinations etc). It's all touchy-feely stuff. 'When was the time you helped someone in need?' 'How did feel when ....?' 'How do actively promote diversity?' etc Wearing a rainbow lapel pin will probably get you fast tracked to CP.

Not that I was around for it, but from what I've read historically this seems similar to 87/88.


The exodus is definitely underway.

Aren't they hanging around to fly those wonderful, shiny new F-35's, junior?

It's not the tech that'causing people to want out...

my guess: some HR pr1ck saying that a 'new generation pilot" is needed for the F35 and by definition anyone with significant F18 experience is a "legacy pilot". that is how one avoids critics of the new model of anything.....

Well that would be totally incorrect.

Nothing like a bit of burley in the water.....

I hope the current "King Pins" of the RAAF have a better understanding of what the role of their crews are and what the crew requirements are to operate their aircraft. I recall around 1980 when a lot of Flight Engineers were leaving the RAAF a high ranking Officer stated, "Let them leave, we will operate the aircraft without them" when told a particular Squadron looked like not being able to meet their operational tasking requirements if they could not stem the tide of F/E's going to civilian operators. I also remember one CAF labeling those pilots leaving as "most being malcontents with little prospect of promotion", or very similar comment when asked if he was concerned at the exodus of the time. That was mid to late 1980's. Many of those "malcontents" had very successful civilian careers.

Emirates are telling new recruits and potential applicants that they are hoping to open a base in Australia. Whether or not they can pull it off is another question but they do need to do something drastic to stem the exodus and prepare for their huge aircraft orders.

That might cause a raaf exodus.

That's right, malcontents and deadwood was the term, S.D.Evans the utterer I think?

Anyone joining Emirates directly onto a base would need a food taster when in DXB. I would suggest bases would be awarded in seniority order. Also, tomorrow is April 1st.

I was one of Evans' 'malcontents'; I only left because of the looming desk job. As it happened, I did well after leaving the RAAF, and am still flying at nearly 60.

Malcontents
 

You are spot-on AOTW. The article was in Australian Aviation and I responded to it, something which I know was appreciated by some at the time. The same individual sometime later sought a political seat and decried the loss of crews and the lack of anything being done to arrest the exodus.

I don't think anything has changed.

The more things change the more they stay the same
 

I have been out of the RAAF since early 1981 Joker, but I think you are more than likely correct.

I was a troop in the RAAF during Air Marshal S. Evans' time as CAS Apr 82- May 85. He was poorly regarded by many of us as simply an aloof mouthpiece for the Defence Minister and Federal government. Fortunately, his replacement was the extremely well respected 'Jake' Newham. I remember meeting Air Marshal Newham in late 1985 at RAAF Richmond. That was after work, in the Airmen's Club over a few beers with quite a few other troops. He was very down to earth and a true leader.

The issue is self perpetuating - generally speaking, the "good" ones get out and the "bad" ones (with some exceptions) stay in and wonder why any of the "malcontents" wanna leave!

Down to Earth
 

Gerry, you and I both know that the majority of those with whom we flew or otherwise worked with were good blokes. (No female tech crew in my day) Some went on to the upper echelons and remained unchanged, others needed a much bigger hat size as they ascended the rank ladder. We were/are all smart enough to know the difference in personalities they each possessed. My experience during my 23 years left me with many more good memories than bad ones. The same can be said of my civil career experiences and those with whom I shared the flight deck. As in all areas of life we sometimes do not always enjoy the company of those around us or above us. Overall life has been great and I hope it stays that way for a while yet.

There are some good stories about Selwyn D Evans and his efforts to fly every aircraft on every base, from the Huey to the F-111 to the Orion, each of them ending with him committing some atrocity and (twice) damaging the aircraft, then refusing to accept responsibility for it.

In 1973 he also grounded every pilot at Amberley whose hair was longer than the Air Force Regulations, because "if you disobey RAAF Orders, then you probably disobey Flying Orders, so you are by definition DANGEROUS, so you are grounded until you get a haircut." Be nice if you could fix a dangerous pilot by giving him a haircut...

I think he even tried to be governor of SA.

There are a few RAAF pilots that now have start dates but upon resignation they were surprised to find that their SPEC aircrew ROSO was to be enforced!! Apparently it's lawyers at 20 paces.

Why? were they expecting something different? Talk about cake and wanting to eat it too

I've no sympathy... Spec Aircrew is the greatest deal for those chosen few who can actually get it. No ground job, pay rise every year and generally the best/most interesting flying.

Only the that are good looking and incredibly talented can get spec aircrew. Anyone thinking that ROSO will not be enforced is perhaps intellectually challenged.

Can you provide an example of when and how a roso has been enforced?

Was it Evans who ran unsuccessfully for the seat of Eden Monaro in the mid 80's??
There was suggestion at the time that his military success was in no small part due to old school connections with Jim Killen, defence minister 1977-82 ish.

For the laymen, can someone explain 'spec crew' ?

Basically...

Contract length of 3, 6 or 10 years (normally)

Guarenteed flying position and no change of location

$3000 pay rise a year

A return of service of 3 years for signing up (I think)

Also - the best bit - "Cannot be promoted whilst in position."
In fact, if you're above the rank of Flight Lieutenant, Spec Aircrew usually comes with a DEMOTION.
There's some VERY happy former Group Captains wearing Flight Lieutenant rank on their shoulders now...
Doesn't necessarily encourage the FLTLTs who wanted the Spec Aircrew position to stay, especially when they're the one's with the option to leave and take a job overseas - for perhaps DEC with some high paying Chinese airline on an A330...
IMO the RAAF don't run the whole Spec Aircrew thing all that well.