Bring Back the Examiners of Airmen
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Bring Back the Examiners of Airmen
I see the CASA Flight Safety Forums are on the road again.
This time we are to be entertained by a new interactive and fun Game Show complete with brilliant prizes including a flight on Virgin Blue with face painting fun, maybe?) and lots of other fun goodies.
The advertising blurb urges us all to participate to win a prize, or to sit comfortably in the audience and learn why you laugh.
While the organisers are all good fellows and are genuinely interested in getting the flight safety message across, these forums do nothing to change the grubby GA industry.
Do we really believe that a polished stage performance by a government doctor on Aviation Medicine will do anything to help the the young pilot sacked recently in the Northern Territory for refusing to fly a Cessna with oil spewing from a prop seal?
Or the new CPL coerced into flying a VFR charter in cloud navigating solely on a cheap GPS?
I do not think so...
Meanwhile out in the West and at the Archerfields and Bankstowns of our aviation industry, pilots are flying unairworthy and poorly maintained aircraft and being sucked into an unsavoury culture that sacks pilots for refusing to fly shoddy aircraft or quickly dispenses with any safety conscious charter pilot that dares to
record defects in the maintenance release instead of on a piece of grubby paper.
Ironically, those visitors at the Flight Safety Forums are in some cases the very owner/operators who belt young pilots over the ears for desecrating a clean maintenance release, yet are gaily invited by the Forum organisers to enjoy "a great opportunity to network with other pilots and identify key safety issues".
What a waste of tax payer's money.
Far better for the organisers to bite the bullet and invite as guest speakers a few of the GA pilots that have experienced the bitter experience of being victimised or dismissed for recording defects legally or for declining to risk their passengers lives by flying a shonky charter.
That will never happen of course, because the Flight safety Forums are for fun loving pilots to win brilliant prizes.
No way should facts be confused with fun.
In any case, any GA pilot foolish enough to speak out on these issues in a public forum would quickly get a permament DCM (Don't come back Monday) from just about every GA pilot employer.
In days of yore, before favourite Approved Test Officers touted their charms around the flying schools, we had Examiners of Airmen.
These were not "delegates".
They were the real thing.
The Bobbies on the beat.
The local Civil Aviation hit man that would award a pilot rating when it was deserved - and made not a personal cent out of it apart from his salary paid by the tax-payer.
Apart from the fact that the flight tests were impartial - no conflict of interest with operators or aircraft owners with whom an ATO might need to hire an aircraft; an Examiner of Airmen would quickly ground a poorly presented defect ridden aircraft and have no hesitation about filling up the maintenance release where necessary.
Operators would quickly get their house in order when an Examiner of Airmen turned up on the doorstep to test a pilot for his PPL, CPL, instructor rating or what-have-you.
Never happens with an ATO who seldom makes waves for fear of jeopardising his own livelihood.
PPRune and ATSB's CAIR both abound with stories of GA pilots reporting shonky aircraft and operators - and losing their jobs if they whistle-blow to CASA.
Trouble is that our Regulator is seldom to be seen.
A visible presence on the beat is needed.
Until they were decimated by government cost cutting with the few remaining tied to desks and renamed Flying Operations Inspectors, the Eaminers of Airmen of old were often to be seen dropping in on the flying schools, talking with students who they tested, "networking" as it is called today.
Each Examiner was well known.
He got out and around and flew all the flight tests.
The operators kept their noses and their aircraft clean because their local friendly Examiner was always just around the corner.
If defects were on the maintenance release the
Examiner would ask some hard questions and ground the aircraft if a reasonable explanation was not forthcoming.
ATO's would never dream of such perfidy - it might cost them their job.
There are not a few GA pilots out there who should never hold an instrument rating.
A compliant ATO might let him off the hook every
year.
An Examiner would not.
I would rather see my money spent on scrubbing the ATO system and replacing them with more CASA bobbies on the beat in the form of Examiners of Airman, than making whoopee and having lotsa fun and interactive Game Shows which is the travelling road show called the CASA Flight Safety Forums.
This time we are to be entertained by a new interactive and fun Game Show complete with brilliant prizes including a flight on Virgin Blue with face painting fun, maybe?) and lots of other fun goodies.
The advertising blurb urges us all to participate to win a prize, or to sit comfortably in the audience and learn why you laugh.
While the organisers are all good fellows and are genuinely interested in getting the flight safety message across, these forums do nothing to change the grubby GA industry.
Do we really believe that a polished stage performance by a government doctor on Aviation Medicine will do anything to help the the young pilot sacked recently in the Northern Territory for refusing to fly a Cessna with oil spewing from a prop seal?
Or the new CPL coerced into flying a VFR charter in cloud navigating solely on a cheap GPS?
I do not think so...
Meanwhile out in the West and at the Archerfields and Bankstowns of our aviation industry, pilots are flying unairworthy and poorly maintained aircraft and being sucked into an unsavoury culture that sacks pilots for refusing to fly shoddy aircraft or quickly dispenses with any safety conscious charter pilot that dares to
record defects in the maintenance release instead of on a piece of grubby paper.
Ironically, those visitors at the Flight Safety Forums are in some cases the very owner/operators who belt young pilots over the ears for desecrating a clean maintenance release, yet are gaily invited by the Forum organisers to enjoy "a great opportunity to network with other pilots and identify key safety issues".
What a waste of tax payer's money.
Far better for the organisers to bite the bullet and invite as guest speakers a few of the GA pilots that have experienced the bitter experience of being victimised or dismissed for recording defects legally or for declining to risk their passengers lives by flying a shonky charter.
That will never happen of course, because the Flight safety Forums are for fun loving pilots to win brilliant prizes.
No way should facts be confused with fun.
In any case, any GA pilot foolish enough to speak out on these issues in a public forum would quickly get a permament DCM (Don't come back Monday) from just about every GA pilot employer.
In days of yore, before favourite Approved Test Officers touted their charms around the flying schools, we had Examiners of Airmen.
These were not "delegates".
They were the real thing.
The Bobbies on the beat.
The local Civil Aviation hit man that would award a pilot rating when it was deserved - and made not a personal cent out of it apart from his salary paid by the tax-payer.
Apart from the fact that the flight tests were impartial - no conflict of interest with operators or aircraft owners with whom an ATO might need to hire an aircraft; an Examiner of Airmen would quickly ground a poorly presented defect ridden aircraft and have no hesitation about filling up the maintenance release where necessary.
Operators would quickly get their house in order when an Examiner of Airmen turned up on the doorstep to test a pilot for his PPL, CPL, instructor rating or what-have-you.
Never happens with an ATO who seldom makes waves for fear of jeopardising his own livelihood.
PPRune and ATSB's CAIR both abound with stories of GA pilots reporting shonky aircraft and operators - and losing their jobs if they whistle-blow to CASA.
Trouble is that our Regulator is seldom to be seen.
A visible presence on the beat is needed.
Until they were decimated by government cost cutting with the few remaining tied to desks and renamed Flying Operations Inspectors, the Eaminers of Airmen of old were often to be seen dropping in on the flying schools, talking with students who they tested, "networking" as it is called today.
Each Examiner was well known.
He got out and around and flew all the flight tests.
The operators kept their noses and their aircraft clean because their local friendly Examiner was always just around the corner.
If defects were on the maintenance release the
Examiner would ask some hard questions and ground the aircraft if a reasonable explanation was not forthcoming.
ATO's would never dream of such perfidy - it might cost them their job.
There are not a few GA pilots out there who should never hold an instrument rating.
A compliant ATO might let him off the hook every
year.
An Examiner would not.
I would rather see my money spent on scrubbing the ATO system and replacing them with more CASA bobbies on the beat in the form of Examiners of Airman, than making whoopee and having lotsa fun and interactive Game Shows which is the travelling road show called the CASA Flight Safety Forums.
Excellent post, I'm quite proud of the fact that all my licence checks from CPL to Instructors to Instrument rating where all done by CASA flight inspectors.I passed when I was at the required standard. No freebies for me.
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Yes - good post!
The only thing I would say is bring back the examiners by all means but to conduct all CPL & CIR (and instructor) tests first and formost.
CASA need to raise the bar quite a bit. There are far too many CPL schools and the very poor standards show that.
Pass a CPL today and more than likely you would NOT have passed a PPL 15 years ago.
The only thing I would say is bring back the examiners by all means but to conduct all CPL & CIR (and instructor) tests first and formost.
CASA need to raise the bar quite a bit. There are far too many CPL schools and the very poor standards show that.
Pass a CPL today and more than likely you would NOT have passed a PPL 15 years ago.
When was that Torres?
Certainly some were, but as a general description for all examiners, not that I recall!
Certainly some were, but as a general description for all examiners, not that I recall!
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Pass a CPL today and more than likely you would NOT have passed a PPL 15 years ago.
Triadic, you clearly have an axe to grind with GA training but why not vent your spleen on those who changed the goalposts not the ones kicking the points.
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Only a question of time to when a grade 3 instructor will teach you to fly, train you for your MECIR, then pass you on your flight test.
Coming from a Chief Pilot background, I have seen many pilots with a fresh CIR yet unable to intercept an outbound radial or fly a straight track in VMC.
The standard of many pilots is well below average.
Coming from a Chief Pilot background, I have seen many pilots with a fresh CIR yet unable to intercept an outbound radial or fly a straight track in VMC.
The standard of many pilots is well below average.
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I have many memories of Examiners of Airmen in the old DCA, in NSW Region. The chief at the time was one Russ Evans, who I was privileged to know - and even more privileged to have had as the Examiner on my initial instructor rating at Mudgee. Besides having bags of experience, I found him always to be a perfect gentleman and always approachable when I had a problem.
I was one of the lucky ones who survived a NVMC flight test with good ol' "come again Col"! He and I renewed our acquaintence later in my career, when I instructed at what was then known as ASBK.
You could debate PofF or anything else with all the longer-time Examiners at BK, in heated exchanges during working hours, and still share a beer with them at days' end. I know that many others do not share my experience of them, but they were good at keeping me at the top of me game.
Indeed, I recall visiting them to say farewell, when I was about to go to PNG, back in 84. Col was one of many to give me sound advice about the place and I'll never forget them for that. So, yes, I believe the industry needs blokes like that, so I'd be happy to sign a petition, if I thought it would help.
Unfortunately, I suspect that CASA is now too far down its' current track to be able to reinstate those positions. More's the pity.
I was one of the lucky ones who survived a NVMC flight test with good ol' "come again Col"! He and I renewed our acquaintence later in my career, when I instructed at what was then known as ASBK.
You could debate PofF or anything else with all the longer-time Examiners at BK, in heated exchanges during working hours, and still share a beer with them at days' end. I know that many others do not share my experience of them, but they were good at keeping me at the top of me game.
Indeed, I recall visiting them to say farewell, when I was about to go to PNG, back in 84. Col was one of many to give me sound advice about the place and I'll never forget them for that. So, yes, I believe the industry needs blokes like that, so I'd be happy to sign a petition, if I thought it would help.
Unfortunately, I suspect that CASA is now too far down its' current track to be able to reinstate those positions. More's the pity.
megle2. Point taken. But then OzExpat reminded me of Russ Exans, a true professional in every way and restored my faith in the fact some (or most, but not all) of the old DCA Examiners were competent airmen.
Let me phrase it another way. You would be hard pressed to find a current, competent "Examiner" in the current crop of FOI's.
Let me phrase it another way. You would be hard pressed to find a current, competent "Examiner" in the current crop of FOI's.
They Don't Make Them Anymore!
Agree with a lot of what's been posted, and tend to agree that 'standards' might be improved by the return of examiners.
Like OzExpat, i have some good memories of Examiners. The day I did my CPL in 1965 with Tom Drury ex Brisbane, we got delayed and returned after 5pm. It was a Friday, and I was due to catch the DC6B to Port Moresby over the weekend. "No problems" said Tom - he opened the office, and on the spot fixed up the paperwork. I arrived in PY with said fresh new licence, and picked up work on a C185 within the week. He also handed down a few tips on staying alive up there - had also flown there himself. Have never forgotten that single act of generosity.
My other good experiences have been with the former Chief Examiner in Perth, going way back to 1970. I won't name him here, but he was flying and instructing about the year WW2 started. In my opinion, he taught you a lot on every test or surveillance. If you were competent - he would try to polish your technique with very positive comment. I can't ever remember a negative remark.
That's not to say that the ATO system is failing - at least I don't see it as such. It would be comforting to know that the 'testers' didn't depend in any way on the 'trainers', but in this world, that's a bit of Utopian thinking.
cheers,
Agree with a lot of what's been posted, and tend to agree that 'standards' might be improved by the return of examiners.
Like OzExpat, i have some good memories of Examiners. The day I did my CPL in 1965 with Tom Drury ex Brisbane, we got delayed and returned after 5pm. It was a Friday, and I was due to catch the DC6B to Port Moresby over the weekend. "No problems" said Tom - he opened the office, and on the spot fixed up the paperwork. I arrived in PY with said fresh new licence, and picked up work on a C185 within the week. He also handed down a few tips on staying alive up there - had also flown there himself. Have never forgotten that single act of generosity.
My other good experiences have been with the former Chief Examiner in Perth, going way back to 1970. I won't name him here, but he was flying and instructing about the year WW2 started. In my opinion, he taught you a lot on every test or surveillance. If you were competent - he would try to polish your technique with very positive comment. I can't ever remember a negative remark.
That's not to say that the ATO system is failing - at least I don't see it as such. It would be comforting to know that the 'testers' didn't depend in any way on the 'trainers', but in this world, that's a bit of Utopian thinking.
cheers,
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Except for the odd instrument rating renewal with an T&Checking captain in the airlines I've always used the regulator to do all my renewals (instructor and instrument ratings)
I have never had any problem with any examiner or flying operations inspector. I have had plenty of arguments. I have had students tested by them who have both passed and failed.
But with all my dealings with the regulator I have found the examiner/flight test officer/ flying operation inspector fair and reasonable.
I find a lot of aviators in the industry get to emotional about our regulator.
Just get on with the job...
I agree bring back the examiner of airman and flight test officer. Get rid of the lawyer and political activist.
I have never had any problem with any examiner or flying operations inspector. I have had plenty of arguments. I have had students tested by them who have both passed and failed.
But with all my dealings with the regulator I have found the examiner/flight test officer/ flying operation inspector fair and reasonable.
I find a lot of aviators in the industry get to emotional about our regulator.
Just get on with the job...
I agree bring back the examiner of airman and flight test officer. Get rid of the lawyer and political activist.
Hudson
Echo your thoughts on Rick Tate.
Only met him the once for my RPPL Test but he was a local legend and left a lasting impression.
(He even passed me although I had to initiate a go round from a poor flapless approach.....and then sent me back out for another half hour's solo practice/confidence building.) 
Echo your thoughts on Rick Tate.
Only met him the once for my RPPL Test but he was a local legend and left a lasting impression.
(He even passed me although I had to initiate a go round from a poor flapless approach.....and then sent me back out for another half hour's solo practice/confidence building.)
