ICUS or another way?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ICUS or another way?
Hey All
Firstly, I have read a lot on PRUNE about ICUS and I dont wanna stir any s*** up but I do have some general questions.
Firstly, bridging the gap between a fresh CPL with 150 hours and that first job is always going to be hard. I hear companies up 'north' want anywhere between 200 and 500 min hours before they will even look at you. So where do you go from there?
People say meatbombing is a good way of building up those required hours. That's all well and good if you have the min 10 hours on type for the type of acft that company operates. But for those that didnt do their COMM training in a 182 or 210, how does one go about getting these 10 hours on type? I have spoken to a few meatbombing companies and there is no chance that they're going to give ICUS away for free. So how do you go about getting these hours? Pay for them?
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. No this isn't a wind up
Natit
Firstly, I have read a lot on PRUNE about ICUS and I dont wanna stir any s*** up but I do have some general questions.
Firstly, bridging the gap between a fresh CPL with 150 hours and that first job is always going to be hard. I hear companies up 'north' want anywhere between 200 and 500 min hours before they will even look at you. So where do you go from there?
People say meatbombing is a good way of building up those required hours. That's all well and good if you have the min 10 hours on type for the type of acft that company operates. But for those that didnt do their COMM training in a 182 or 210, how does one go about getting these 10 hours on type? I have spoken to a few meatbombing companies and there is no chance that they're going to give ICUS away for free. So how do you go about getting these hours? Pay for them?
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. No this isn't a wind up
Natit
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aust
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
natit,
I think that ICUS does have it's place, but only for the kind of senario that you have described. If you need 10 or so hours on type to land a job or get your foot in the door, then flying ICUS is a great way of getting thoughs hours. It's the 1000 hour pilots with 300-400 hours ICUS that get up my nose. I know of a few pilots who inadvertantly blend their ICUS into their command time, as if it's a blury line
. When your flying ICUS your just a Co-pilot puting in command inputs under supervision. I could go on, but I won't...
Good luck with getting thoughs extra few hours.
I think that ICUS does have it's place, but only for the kind of senario that you have described. If you need 10 or so hours on type to land a job or get your foot in the door, then flying ICUS is a great way of getting thoughs hours. It's the 1000 hour pilots with 300-400 hours ICUS that get up my nose. I know of a few pilots who inadvertantly blend their ICUS into their command time, as if it's a blury line
. When your flying ICUS your just a Co-pilot puting in command inputs under supervision. I could go on, but I won't...Good luck with getting thoughs extra few hours.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PH 298/7.4DME
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I personally am not a fan of ICUS, so I try to keep my ICUS time to a minimum. However, that's not to say that it isn't a good way of getting the minimum time on type as has been said above.
The only other way I can suggest is to private hire the type you need time on and get 10 hours that way. Sure, it may cost you $3000 or so, but that ain't much in the scheme of things.
I had to get 20hrs on C210 for my first gig, and I ended up having to pay for it myself cause they wouldn't accept ICUS.
520.
The only other way I can suggest is to private hire the type you need time on and get 10 hours that way. Sure, it may cost you $3000 or so, but that ain't much in the scheme of things.
I had to get 20hrs on C210 for my first gig, and I ended up having to pay for it myself cause they wouldn't accept ICUS.
520.
What are the typical minimum hours for insurance requirements though?
I don't know of a C210 that is available to blast off for 10 hours of PIC time if you have less than 200hrs Total. This is a problem for people on the 150hr CPL course. I'd be interested to know if anyone has heard of a requirement for "minimum 200 hours or CPL" to cover this.
I guess this is just another example of the limitations of the "Integrated" course.
Wing Root
I don't know of a C210 that is available to blast off for 10 hours of PIC time if you have less than 200hrs Total. This is a problem for people on the 150hr CPL course. I'd be interested to know if anyone has heard of a requirement for "minimum 200 hours or CPL" to cover this.
I guess this is just another example of the limitations of the "Integrated" course.
Wing Root
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PH 298/7.4DME
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quite true.
In my case, I had tu convince the owner of the C210 that I wanted to get time on that I was safe, despite not having 200TT but having done a 3hr check flight, consisiting of the usual Gen. Handling and CCTS. I had about 10 hrs on C182RG which became helpful in that situation.
520.
In my case, I had tu convince the owner of the C210 that I wanted to get time on that I was safe, despite not having 200TT but having done a 3hr check flight, consisiting of the usual Gen. Handling and CCTS. I had about 10 hrs on C182RG which became helpful in that situation.
520.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Still in Paradise
Age: 60
Posts: 861
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 'traditional' approach is to get a bunch of people together (not necessarily pilots) and do the 'big tour' of the Centre, the North, the West etc; get em to kick in and rack up your 30 - 50 additional hours there.
Kinda depends what you see as your aviation future - if you're heading for instructing, spend the bucks doing the instructors course which adds about 50hr to your TT; if you want to go the CHTR route, knock over the ME & CIR for some added hrs, while adding in some quality depth (yeah, I know at 200TT you're not gunna get a gurnsey with a ME CHTR but you gotta start SOMEWHERE), plus you start making a march on the required number of IR renewals (often need 3+ to get a look in).
Do some PVT flights - hire an aeroplane and see some of the country; ENJOY your licence, while still looking to add hours. Do some additional types ratings - taildragger, aeros, formation, pressurisation, floats...... not only added hours, but a damn fine way to spend your airborne time.
Kinda depends what you see as your aviation future - if you're heading for instructing, spend the bucks doing the instructors course which adds about 50hr to your TT; if you want to go the CHTR route, knock over the ME & CIR for some added hrs, while adding in some quality depth (yeah, I know at 200TT you're not gunna get a gurnsey with a ME CHTR but you gotta start SOMEWHERE), plus you start making a march on the required number of IR renewals (often need 3+ to get a look in).
Do some PVT flights - hire an aeroplane and see some of the country; ENJOY your licence, while still looking to add hours. Do some additional types ratings - taildragger, aeros, formation, pressurisation, floats...... not only added hours, but a damn fine way to spend your airborne time.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wing Root and others.
Thanks for your posts. I thought there might be problems with insurance etc. I know that for one of the P32R's out at PF you need 200 HRS TT and 25 HRS CSU/RETRAC. so I'm guessing the same for any 210's round the place. I think it's going to be a matter of stuck between a rock and a hard place...
As for the idea of touring the centre in an aircraft. Firstly, after all the $$$ put into the Commercial I dont think I would have the resources to spend $$ on more hours other then say the 10 HRS ICUS for a meatbombing job.
There's gotta be people out there that were in the same situation, how'd you all do it?
Thanks for your posts. I thought there might be problems with insurance etc. I know that for one of the P32R's out at PF you need 200 HRS TT and 25 HRS CSU/RETRAC. so I'm guessing the same for any 210's round the place. I think it's going to be a matter of stuck between a rock and a hard place...
As for the idea of touring the centre in an aircraft. Firstly, after all the $$$ put into the Commercial I dont think I would have the resources to spend $$ on more hours other then say the 10 HRS ICUS for a meatbombing job.
There's gotta be people out there that were in the same situation, how'd you all do it?
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 150'amsl
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as the insurance requirements go, normally the pilot depending on his/her experience in the aircraft will be placed with a different excess. So if you meet the requiremnts of the insurance company you would be on an excess of 1% of the hull value. If you have plenty of time but still don't meet the requirements of this type of aircraft you may be placed with a 2% excess. If you are a new to the type or that catagory of aircraft they may place you on a 3% excess, I am not sure if it goes much higher than that maybe some else can clarify that.
If you are think your best chance at a job is in a certain type of aircraft go and do an endorsement, but before you do it take a look in the CAO's some types are covered by one endorsement so this will cover you for all of those types.
Some maitenance companies have aircraft at their disposal that they use to go visit clients aircraft on stations/farms etc, go down and get chummy with the LAME's and you may find yourself working in the hangar and helping out here and there at least you will be in the industry and on hand when they need to go and do a 100 hourly out bush or recover an aircraft etc.
If you are think your best chance at a job is in a certain type of aircraft go and do an endorsement, but before you do it take a look in the CAO's some types are covered by one endorsement so this will cover you for all of those types.
Some maitenance companies have aircraft at their disposal that they use to go visit clients aircraft on stations/farms etc, go down and get chummy with the LAME's and you may find yourself working in the hangar and helping out here and there at least you will be in the industry and on hand when they need to go and do a 100 hourly out bush or recover an aircraft etc.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne
Age: 41
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did my hours & licence etc by borrowing an obscene amount of money which will take me 20 years to pay back
When it came time to get my hours up, I just flew aimlessly around WA (which was immensely enjoyable!). It was worth it because I now get paid to fly around
When it came time to get my hours up, I just flew aimlessly around WA (which was immensely enjoyable!). It was worth it because I now get paid to fly around
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Aust
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How to get c210 time for insurance.
where u guys ask the question of how you can get the time on a c210 on the 150 hour inteergrated commercial course. there is many orginsations around aust that will do your comm training or a segment of your comm training in a c210 that will then allow you to hire the machine or to do charter work when you finish the course
Guest
Posts: n/a
I don't know why there is so much negativity about ICUS. Sure if you only have ICUS in you log book it can look a bit crap, but for the most part you can't avoid it.
You have to 10 on type (legally speaking), but then you have the insurance requirement which varies operator to operator (depending on how much/little they want to fork out on premiums). I have had to do in excess of 50 hours ICUS on type (for smaller GA twins, ie not above 5700kg) just to meet the insurance requirement. Sure I didn't get paid on ICUS, but at least I wasn't paying it myself!
So why should people think it looks bad that I have a couple of hundred hours ICUS through my logbook just because I logged it legally and not as Command?!
You have to 10 on type (legally speaking), but then you have the insurance requirement which varies operator to operator (depending on how much/little they want to fork out on premiums). I have had to do in excess of 50 hours ICUS on type (for smaller GA twins, ie not above 5700kg) just to meet the insurance requirement. Sure I didn't get paid on ICUS, but at least I wasn't paying it myself!
So why should people think it looks bad that I have a couple of hundred hours ICUS through my logbook just because I logged it legally and not as Command?!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Engineout
Just wondering what type of aircraft you had to do the 50 hours ICUS on to meet the requiements.
Were you an employee of the company while you did the ICUS and not paid, or were you doing the unpaid ICUS with them before you got the gig?
Just wondering what type of aircraft you had to do the 50 hours ICUS on to meet the requiements.
Were you an employee of the company while you did the ICUS and not paid, or were you doing the unpaid ICUS with them before you got the gig?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Natit
I got lucky and hit an operator with a C182 and C207. I had more than the required time for the C182 (C172CS is OK) but no C207 time. The boss used to get me to ferry the C207 for maintenance visits (0.5 each way) then once he figured out I wasn't going to do a runner any time soon he told me to go out and do an hour each week until I the magic 10 hours required for the APF, all at company cost. In the past they used to charge pilot $250.00 per hour for their 10 hours. There are some decent operators out there, even in meatbombing. Our CI has worked out over time that It pays to look after pilots (at least the ones that look like sticking around for a while) and it isn't that hard to lose 1 hour a week of 207 time in the grand scheme of things.
Good luck with it, unfortunately we aren't looking at the moment but feel free to PM me with a resume if you like and I'll put it on file. Meatbombing is a truly awesome way of getting hours and experience especially engine management and TO / Landing phases of flight. Some of the people you meet are pretty cool to.
Regards
Prop
I got lucky and hit an operator with a C182 and C207. I had more than the required time for the C182 (C172CS is OK) but no C207 time. The boss used to get me to ferry the C207 for maintenance visits (0.5 each way) then once he figured out I wasn't going to do a runner any time soon he told me to go out and do an hour each week until I the magic 10 hours required for the APF, all at company cost. In the past they used to charge pilot $250.00 per hour for their 10 hours. There are some decent operators out there, even in meatbombing. Our CI has worked out over time that It pays to look after pilots (at least the ones that look like sticking around for a while) and it isn't that hard to lose 1 hour a week of 207 time in the grand scheme of things.
Good luck with it, unfortunately we aren't looking at the moment but feel free to PM me with a resume if you like and I'll put it on file. Meatbombing is a truly awesome way of getting hours and experience especially engine management and TO / Landing phases of flight. Some of the people you meet are pretty cool to.
Regards
Prop
Guest
Posts: n/a
PHF,
C310, PA31 and a van up north (which was actually 100 hrs ICUS, because I didn't have any turbine time!!). My situation may be a bit more isolated as I was lucky and had relatively low time when I first flew the 310.
I was an employee in on the C310 and van (I actually got paid a 'training wage on the van, just enought to live off for a month or so). The PA31, I had filled out the paper work and told to do the ICUS with them and would be put on as a casual (at first) at the end.
Hope that answers the Q.
C310, PA31 and a van up north (which was actually 100 hrs ICUS, because I didn't have any turbine time!!). My situation may be a bit more isolated as I was lucky and had relatively low time when I first flew the 310.
I was an employee in on the C310 and van (I actually got paid a 'training wage on the van, just enought to live off for a month or so). The PA31, I had filled out the paper work and told to do the ICUS with them and would be put on as a casual (at first) at the end.
Hope that answers the Q.
