To Kaptin M
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The 30 % ambit claim has not been credibly justified by any of the usual suspects.
Why? because everyone who was involved knows that if it had not been so high an amount the whole sordid matter would not have occurred.
The whole issue regardless of sides revolves around the magic 30 %.....
No 30% and no public backlash to the industrial dispute or AFAP suicide.
All points of view after the ambit claim was tabled became moot points.
If after all these years Nobody can credibly justify the 30% then how the hell could an industrial action be launched with hope of success at the time.
The AFAP lost the action as soon as it said 30%.....Pure and simple... So all the bitter and twisted combatants should either put up or shut up once and for all..
Why? because everyone who was involved knows that if it had not been so high an amount the whole sordid matter would not have occurred.
The whole issue regardless of sides revolves around the magic 30 %.....
No 30% and no public backlash to the industrial dispute or AFAP suicide.
All points of view after the ambit claim was tabled became moot points.
If after all these years Nobody can credibly justify the 30% then how the hell could an industrial action be launched with hope of success at the time.
The AFAP lost the action as soon as it said 30%.....Pure and simple... So all the bitter and twisted combatants should either put up or shut up once and for all..
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My dear poor T-R, the 30% has been canvassed in terms of its justification in this forum over a number of years. Go and do the research.
Tanhua or whatever and his kind are only proud of being scabs due to anonymity. I doubt one would expect to see their ilk wandering around Collins Street in T-shirts exhibiting the fact.
As for the remark about percentages voting.
Now, if 95% of the pilots who attended stopworks, and voted at secret ballot, for industrial action, as they did, and they represented 70% of the membership who were actually able to attend, it seems a reasonably logical conclusion that of the 30% who may not have attended, that 95% of them are likely to have voted in the same, or at least similar percentage.
I wouldn't get too worked up about that one, old boy.
Tanhua or whatever and his kind are only proud of being scabs due to anonymity. I doubt one would expect to see their ilk wandering around Collins Street in T-shirts exhibiting the fact.
As for the remark about percentages voting.
Now, if 95% of the pilots who attended stopworks, and voted at secret ballot, for industrial action, as they did, and they represented 70% of the membership who were actually able to attend, it seems a reasonably logical conclusion that of the 30% who may not have attended, that 95% of them are likely to have voted in the same, or at least similar percentage.
I wouldn't get too worked up about that one, old boy.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
TANUA, I think you've mis-interpreted TTT's post - the anonymity he referred to, was NOT the handles used here on PPRuNe.
As I have said on several occasions, I believe that the actual person behind the moniker is IRRELEVANT - it is the views, issues, and ideas that they expound that make these forums, because those views are REPRESENTATIVE of many others who DON'T get involved, but who nonetheless have an opinion.
Your name means nothing to me - just as mine would mean zilch to you. I wouldn't venture to say the same for Toolies perhaps - but again the real identity is NOT the issue here.
t-r, are you trying to make some point? Your needle appears to be stuck in the (30%) groove!
Oh, and for your information, the AFAP is alive and well, and continues to represent Australia's pilots.
As I have said on several occasions, I believe that the actual person behind the moniker is IRRELEVANT - it is the views, issues, and ideas that they expound that make these forums, because those views are REPRESENTATIVE of many others who DON'T get involved, but who nonetheless have an opinion.
Your name means nothing to me - just as mine would mean zilch to you. I wouldn't venture to say the same for Toolies perhaps - but again the real identity is NOT the issue here.
t-r, are you trying to make some point? Your needle appears to be stuck in the (30%) groove!
Oh, and for your information, the AFAP is alive and well, and continues to represent Australia's pilots.
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Tanua
Don't expect most of the usual suspects to remain anything but anonymous.
Kaptin M
Rest assured that your name is very well know to a lot of the readers of this forum including recent contributors to this topic.
" ......it is the views, issues, and ideas that they expound that make these forums."
Really ?
Slasher's personal, irrational and totally unacceptable comments not so long ago about the numbers of ex AN pilots who are no longer with us flies in the face of any sensible discussion.
Your diatribes can only serve to satisy yourself and those with similar views and a wider audience would laugh at some of the "crap" that is espoused by some of you.
Have a great life.
Don't expect most of the usual suspects to remain anything but anonymous.
Kaptin M
Rest assured that your name is very well know to a lot of the readers of this forum including recent contributors to this topic.
" ......it is the views, issues, and ideas that they expound that make these forums."
Really ?
Slasher's personal, irrational and totally unacceptable comments not so long ago about the numbers of ex AN pilots who are no longer with us flies in the face of any sensible discussion.
Your diatribes can only serve to satisy yourself and those with similar views and a wider audience would laugh at some of the "crap" that is espoused by some of you.
Have a great life.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"Rest assured that your name is very well know to a lot of the readers of this forum including recent contributors to this topic."
And if you need to put a face to the name, you will find my PHOTO here in some of the PPRuNe bash pics.
You see, Nitpak, most of us do NOT have anything to hide. How about YOU?
Your post - only the second it would seem (using your current handle) - adds NOTHING of any substance here.
And who decided that Slasher's comments were
?
I'd suggest it was the ACTIONS of the now departed, ex-AN scabs that was unacceptable - both to them AND the families they left holding the can!
And if you need to put a face to the name, you will find my PHOTO here in some of the PPRuNe bash pics.
You see, Nitpak, most of us do NOT have anything to hide. How about YOU?
Your post - only the second it would seem (using your current handle) - adds NOTHING of any substance here.
And who decided that Slasher's comments were
unacceptable
I'd suggest it was the ACTIONS of the now departed, ex-AN scabs that was unacceptable - both to them AND the families they left holding the can!
Kaptin M:
"IMO, I would like to see the Government employ some of these older, ex-airline pilots of the 1989 era in their Aviation departments. In that way some of the experience would be able to be re-injected in from the top."
What, join CASA???????????
( Sorry .... couldn't resist that! )
"IMO, I would like to see the Government employ some of these older, ex-airline pilots of the 1989 era in their Aviation departments. In that way some of the experience would be able to be re-injected in from the top."
What, join CASA???????????
( Sorry .... couldn't resist that!
)
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You know what...I don't know about you, but I am bored with all these turkeys who after 14 yrs are still trying to justify the reasons why they went all scabby and returned to work.
And now we have a new lot of turkeys on the scene trying to do the same thing! And ,as usual, supported by all the scabby lovers and puppets of the past!
The usual nonsense is trotted out..."I did it for my family"..."I only took my job back"..."The Feds were corrupt"..."30% was a stupid claim"
Let's face it fellows, you all went to water under fire, buckled at the knees, lost your nerve and skulked back to work under the cover of darkness and, after 14 yrs, are still seeking redemption!
I mean really , what do you expect!
If you were in the trenches in WW1 and skulked across no mans land at night to surrender to the enemy you would have been shot, if you were ever brought to trial.
In WW2 you would have been court marshalled and dishonourably discharged.
If I had my way, I'd court marshall you,discharge you dishonourably, and then have you shot!
You're gutless, fellows, learn to live with it!
And now we have a new lot of turkeys on the scene trying to do the same thing! And ,as usual, supported by all the scabby lovers and puppets of the past!
The usual nonsense is trotted out..."I did it for my family"..."I only took my job back"..."The Feds were corrupt"..."30% was a stupid claim"
Let's face it fellows, you all went to water under fire, buckled at the knees, lost your nerve and skulked back to work under the cover of darkness and, after 14 yrs, are still seeking redemption!
I mean really , what do you expect!
If you were in the trenches in WW1 and skulked across no mans land at night to surrender to the enemy you would have been shot, if you were ever brought to trial.
In WW2 you would have been court marshalled and dishonourably discharged.
If I had my way, I'd court marshall you,discharge you dishonourably, and then have you shot!
You're gutless, fellows, learn to live with it!
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There's a few people 'round here that are out of touch with reality..
The reality is that not many people in today's job market really care about (or remember) that year.
I was one of those that was forging my career back then when it all turned to dust. I reckon that my progress was put back at least 3 years by the flood of individuals back into the top end of the flying training market.
And before you all berate me, I don't hold a grudge against any of those who gazumped me in my aspirations, and I didn't apply for the jobs that were made vacant by their resignations.....In fact I'm glad I met some of those guys....
The truth be known that all this bitterness about "scabby things" only exists in the memories of bitter and twisted individuals, and holds no relevance in the minds of the current generation of people applying for and getting airline jobs in Australia.
Time to move on, people.
I was one of those that was forging my career back then when it all turned to dust. I reckon that my progress was put back at least 3 years by the flood of individuals back into the top end of the flying training market.
And before you all berate me, I don't hold a grudge against any of those who gazumped me in my aspirations, and I didn't apply for the jobs that were made vacant by their resignations.....In fact I'm glad I met some of those guys....
The truth be known that all this bitterness about "scabby things" only exists in the memories of bitter and twisted individuals, and holds no relevance in the minds of the current generation of people applying for and getting airline jobs in Australia.
Time to move on, people.
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Thankyou HJ
Probably one of the most sensible comments on this topic to date:
"The truth be known that all this bitterness about "scabby things" only exists in the memories of bitter and twisted individuals, and holds no relevance in the minds of the current generation of people applying for and getting airline jobs in Australia. "
Amos, TTT, KM et al, could it be that you guys have totally lost all touch with reality?
For you Amos, why do you keep responding to comments if you are "bored with all these turkeys " ?
Tanua is right. "Empty vessels make the most noise."
Probably one of the most sensible comments on this topic to date:
"The truth be known that all this bitterness about "scabby things" only exists in the memories of bitter and twisted individuals, and holds no relevance in the minds of the current generation of people applying for and getting airline jobs in Australia. "
Amos, TTT, KM et al, could it be that you guys have totally lost all touch with reality?
For you Amos, why do you keep responding to comments if you are "bored with all these turkeys " ?
Tanua is right. "Empty vessels make the most noise."
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Sorry to disappoint you Amos, I wasn't remotely near Aus. when you people handed your jobs in. Why can't you face the facts.
***************** YOU RESIGNED. *******************
Just how mentally challenged do you have to be to accept this relatively simple concept.
Have a great day.
***************** YOU RESIGNED. *******************
Just how mentally challenged do you have to be to accept this relatively simple concept.
Have a great day.
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To quote bonvol
‘Holds no relevance except if you apply to Virgin. It holds plenty of relevance there and always will for the foreseeable future.’
Equally relevant in the reverse if you wish to be hired to drive an Australian registered B727.
(For the Crocodile Farmers, that is. For the other lot you need to be ex Kiwi Air Force.)
The dispute still alive and relevant out there, in any equipment the participants are qualified on.
‘Holds no relevance except if you apply to Virgin. It holds plenty of relevance there and always will for the foreseeable future.’
Equally relevant in the reverse if you wish to be hired to drive an Australian registered B727.
(For the Crocodile Farmers, that is. For the other lot you need to be ex Kiwi Air Force.)
The dispute still alive and relevant out there, in any equipment the participants are qualified on.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Nitpak, you may think it "clever" to bend the truth somewhat with your,
"Sorry to disappoint you Amos, I wasn't remotely near Aus. when you people handed your jobs in."
...but how quickly did you make a beeline Dunnunda AFTER our resignations?
Your previous posts indicate that your were in it up to your neck!
Your`s is the sort of anonymity that TT mentioned - the deceitful, lying, snake-in-the-grass type, that you have exhibited here.
Yes, Jarse`s observations about the current crop of pilots not remembering nor caring about 1989 are probably correct, but the TRUTH is the MAJORITY of them are AWARE of the basics of the dispute.
The clock can never be turned back - although there was a chance for "bridge-building", but the Ansett Pilots` Association, under its scab leadership torpedoed that.
Brian McCarthy advocated "Forgive and forget" - the `scabby things` (glorious in their new-found positions) responded with a BOHICA.
And now, 14 years on, they are the ones advocating B.M`s message.
Plainly and simply, people such as Nitpak became involved in an industrial dispute that was none of their business. To say that they "applied for positions from which ***************** YOU RESIGNED. ******************* ", is glossing over the FACTS.
They effectively DESTROYED our careers by taking away our elected representative`s (the AFAP) right to achieve a NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT, as was and is customary in Australia.
14, 28, or 72 years will NEVER erase that FACT.
SCABS....people who place themselves between the established workers, and their employers during industrial "events", destroy lives and careers.
Just how mentally challenged do you have to be to accept this relatively simple concept.
"Sorry to disappoint you Amos, I wasn't remotely near Aus. when you people handed your jobs in."
...but how quickly did you make a beeline Dunnunda AFTER our resignations?
Your previous posts indicate that your were in it up to your neck!
Your`s is the sort of anonymity that TT mentioned - the deceitful, lying, snake-in-the-grass type, that you have exhibited here.
Yes, Jarse`s observations about the current crop of pilots not remembering nor caring about 1989 are probably correct, but the TRUTH is the MAJORITY of them are AWARE of the basics of the dispute.
The clock can never be turned back - although there was a chance for "bridge-building", but the Ansett Pilots` Association, under its scab leadership torpedoed that.
Brian McCarthy advocated "Forgive and forget" - the `scabby things` (glorious in their new-found positions) responded with a BOHICA.
And now, 14 years on, they are the ones advocating B.M`s message.
Plainly and simply, people such as Nitpak became involved in an industrial dispute that was none of their business. To say that they "applied for positions from which ***************** YOU RESIGNED. ******************* ", is glossing over the FACTS.
They effectively DESTROYED our careers by taking away our elected representative`s (the AFAP) right to achieve a NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT, as was and is customary in Australia.
14, 28, or 72 years will NEVER erase that FACT.
SCABS....people who place themselves between the established workers, and their employers during industrial "events", destroy lives and careers.
Just how mentally challenged do you have to be to accept this relatively simple concept.