To Kaptin M
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T-R old boy, first, I cannot help it if you are simply stupid, as your post indicates.
The fact placed before you in my previous post is far more valid than your comments about the AFAP or its leadership of the day.
It simply doesn't matter, old boy, what the claim was. It might have included a Lear Jet for all the Captains and a C150 for all F/O's.
The point is, old boy, that in the Australian context of industrial relations, there was no justification for the manner with which was dealt, and even you might understand that as plain English.
The established norms of disputes were unjustifiably tossed out the window, not at the bedroom bandicoot's behest, not at the little cherub's behest, but at the behest of the late and pitiable Abeles.
What (you, apparently), and the scabs were prepared to do, was choose to side with the likes of Abeles, because he offered the well above 30% of the AFAP claim, which just happened to be another pilot's pay. In your mind that is OK. And that IS un-Australian.
As for HJ, aka BB, I don't know who he is, and could not care less.
HJ by pseudonym, BB by nature, for clarity of thought in relation to the dispute of '89, or the AFAP, is not his, nor any scab's, forte.
With no respect, old boy.
The fact placed before you in my previous post is far more valid than your comments about the AFAP or its leadership of the day.
It simply doesn't matter, old boy, what the claim was. It might have included a Lear Jet for all the Captains and a C150 for all F/O's.
The point is, old boy, that in the Australian context of industrial relations, there was no justification for the manner with which was dealt, and even you might understand that as plain English.
The established norms of disputes were unjustifiably tossed out the window, not at the bedroom bandicoot's behest, not at the little cherub's behest, but at the behest of the late and pitiable Abeles.
What (you, apparently), and the scabs were prepared to do, was choose to side with the likes of Abeles, because he offered the well above 30% of the AFAP claim, which just happened to be another pilot's pay. In your mind that is OK. And that IS un-Australian.
As for HJ, aka BB, I don't know who he is, and could not care less.
HJ by pseudonym, BB by nature, for clarity of thought in relation to the dispute of '89, or the AFAP, is not his, nor any scab's, forte.
With no respect, old boy.
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amos2: I don't know what a "Bex" is, and I loathe tea, but a good lie down is always a pleasant idea. At least there I can choose my company, unlike these forums where you continue to raise your ugly arguments. Go away.
I've just re-read TTT's reply, and I'd love to know the definition of "un-Australian", please. There seems to be a myth about that Australians are, by nature, a race (I use the word advisedly) which prides itself on looking after each other and banding together in a common cause, in respect to Industrial Relations. BULLSH1T!! In my experience of Australian Industrial Relations for the past 20 years, i.e. ETU; ATOF (Airlines Division) and ASU, none of the myth has been apparent, other than by its absence. From my observations, Australians are as venal, corrupt and greedy in their respective desires as anyone else, and will shaft each other without hesitation if there is the sniff of an advantage. Now apply these observations to the '89 dispute, and you'll understand why I have such a dislike of people and institutions which abuse their power for selfish reasons, i.e. the AFAP as it was then. Now, please tell me where I am wrong, amos or TTT
TheNightOwl.
I've just re-read TTT's reply, and I'd love to know the definition of "un-Australian", please. There seems to be a myth about that Australians are, by nature, a race (I use the word advisedly) which prides itself on looking after each other and banding together in a common cause, in respect to Industrial Relations. BULLSH1T!! In my experience of Australian Industrial Relations for the past 20 years, i.e. ETU; ATOF (Airlines Division) and ASU, none of the myth has been apparent, other than by its absence. From my observations, Australians are as venal, corrupt and greedy in their respective desires as anyone else, and will shaft each other without hesitation if there is the sniff of an advantage. Now apply these observations to the '89 dispute, and you'll understand why I have such a dislike of people and institutions which abuse their power for selfish reasons, i.e. the AFAP as it was then. Now, please tell me where I am wrong, amos or TTT
TheNightOwl.
Last edited by TheNightOwl; 19th Feb 2003 at 03:30.
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There were no scabs. It is a figment of your vivid imagination.
You all resigned; & left the Australian public without an aviation facility.
You left - a vast number of vacancies were created in the airline structures when you removed your names from their lists.
You crawled away to far off lands & left the industry without the ability (so you thought) to recover.
So many people lost their jobs bcause of the stupidity of a few.
Because of the Australian way, with the rest of the country we got back on our feet, the dust settled & we got on with the job in hand.
The AFAP wondered what happened & have cried foul for the last decade & a bit; but who cares.
Who cares about their losses. To the Australian public, 100 fold of the damage they created to themselves, they bestowed on others.
Thanks to you - TTT, amos2, and all the others - we now have a much better industry.
We will fight for our country - united as in the past - but as Jarse & Torres pointed out, this fight was not for the protection of King & country; but only for the greed (both in dollars & power) of a select few.
You all resigned; & left the Australian public without an aviation facility.
You left - a vast number of vacancies were created in the airline structures when you removed your names from their lists.
You crawled away to far off lands & left the industry without the ability (so you thought) to recover.
So many people lost their jobs bcause of the stupidity of a few.
Because of the Australian way, with the rest of the country we got back on our feet, the dust settled & we got on with the job in hand.
The AFAP wondered what happened & have cried foul for the last decade & a bit; but who cares.
Who cares about their losses. To the Australian public, 100 fold of the damage they created to themselves, they bestowed on others.
Thanks to you - TTT, amos2, and all the others - we now have a much better industry.
We will fight for our country - united as in the past - but as Jarse & Torres pointed out, this fight was not for the protection of King & country; but only for the greed (both in dollars & power) of a select few.
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I was still a virgin in 1989 so am certainly not qualified to comment and am not upset by any of this, but must ask, why do you guys\gals keeping opening the wound so to speak.
I'm sure many of you are quite emotional about this topic, as i guess i would be, but everthing thats been said so far in this thread has been said dozens of times on dozens of other threads by dozens of other people.
Nothing can change whats happened, surely this continued aggravation has to effect your day to day life, is that healthy ?.
Cheers
I'm sure many of you are quite emotional about this topic, as i guess i would be, but everthing thats been said so far in this thread has been said dozens of times on dozens of other threads by dozens of other people.
Nothing can change whats happened, surely this continued aggravation has to effect your day to day life, is that healthy ?.
Cheers
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Night Owl
" From my observations, Australians are as venal, corrupt and greedy in their respective desires as anyone else, and will shaft each other without hesitation if there is the sniff of an advantage. "
Well put! From my observations, also, this would be an accurate assessment. However, fortunately it applies to only about 20% of the workforce.
Woomera, I had a snicker at that one - I agree totally. Same players, same opinions. However, a few love to take advantage of these threads to throw in a simplistic, self serving assessment.
" From my observations, Australians are as venal, corrupt and greedy in their respective desires as anyone else, and will shaft each other without hesitation if there is the sniff of an advantage. "
Well put! From my observations, also, this would be an accurate assessment. However, fortunately it applies to only about 20% of the workforce.
Woomera, I had a snicker at that one - I agree totally. Same players, same opinions. However, a few love to take advantage of these threads to throw in a simplistic, self serving assessment.
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Oh NOWL, you foolish boy. What ARE we going to do with you.
I know you might be a tech wiz on sims, but as with most techs, not very bright in most other areas I am afraid.
Oh dear, and so youthful too - not knowing what a Bex is. Good grief.
But as for un-Australian.
Well let me explain it in language even you can understand - along with the equally youthful T-R.
Most humans exhibit greed, as you suggest, but the identifying factor in industrial relations in Aus. has been the fact that it has been, in the main, all for one, and one for all, so that all may achieve the proper result.
For the likes of your good self, until you had scabs to work with, I should say for, you would not have considered 1% anything other than "greed" from pilots.
That has been the history of hatred of pilots by many ground staff for more years than you have been on the planet.
That you were prepared to accept the influx of foreign scabs into a company that was truly an Aus icon until its founder lost control, makes you no better than the pilot scabs you embraced.
Face it NOWL, all your bleatings about AFAP greed is stupidity, for your scabby friends took more out of the till than anything the AFAP proposed, and you were happy to see it.
Now, what have you got - not the company for which you worked.
Your scab mates helped sink it.
Pretty stupid I suggest.
I know you might be a tech wiz on sims, but as with most techs, not very bright in most other areas I am afraid.
Oh dear, and so youthful too - not knowing what a Bex is. Good grief.
But as for un-Australian.
Well let me explain it in language even you can understand - along with the equally youthful T-R.
Most humans exhibit greed, as you suggest, but the identifying factor in industrial relations in Aus. has been the fact that it has been, in the main, all for one, and one for all, so that all may achieve the proper result.
For the likes of your good self, until you had scabs to work with, I should say for, you would not have considered 1% anything other than "greed" from pilots.
That has been the history of hatred of pilots by many ground staff for more years than you have been on the planet.
That you were prepared to accept the influx of foreign scabs into a company that was truly an Aus icon until its founder lost control, makes you no better than the pilot scabs you embraced.
Face it NOWL, all your bleatings about AFAP greed is stupidity, for your scabby friends took more out of the till than anything the AFAP proposed, and you were happy to see it.
Now, what have you got - not the company for which you worked.
Your scab mates helped sink it.
Pretty stupid I suggest.
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Kwaj mate,
You said in part,
Thanks to you - TTT, amos2, and all the others - we now have a much better industry.
With Ansett gone, Kendals/Hazeltons disguised as something else, wages and conditions at most others at rock bottom, and not even in some cases at PRE 1989 LEVELS?????
WHERE IS THE LOGIC IN ALL THAT?
You said in part,
Thanks to you - TTT, amos2, and all the others - we now have a much better industry.
With Ansett gone, Kendals/Hazeltons disguised as something else, wages and conditions at most others at rock bottom, and not even in some cases at PRE 1989 LEVELS?????
WHERE IS THE LOGIC IN ALL THAT?
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TTT - thanks for the reply, I think. What an objectionable, patronising person you seem to be, your assumption regarding my "brightness in other areas" is laughable, were it not so insulting. That, I assume, was the intention. It appears you are aware of who I am, from your reference to my background, I consider myself to be fortunate NOT to be in the same position.
My gratitude for the reference to my "youthfulness", I'm sure my wife and family will be amused by it as I can no longer claim to be youthful in other than outlook. BTW, you still neglected to tell me what a "Bex" is, could this be an early symptom of short-term memory loss?
In my first job following my arrival in Oz, I had to become a member of the ETU. In the time before I joined AN, I had a position as a Project Superviser in a field I'd rather not discuss here, suffice to say it required my being a Union member. NOT ONCE in the time I was in the position was I aware of the supposed "all for one, one for all" attitude you claim to be alive and well in Oz. Horsefeathers, mate, absolute garbage! Union solidarity means nothing more to the union leadership than the rank-and-file doing as the officials deem fit and proper, and God help anyone with a bent for asking awkward questions. The "proper result" to which you refer was/is the capitulation of management to demands, however outrageous, with the attendant increase in perceived power of the union, and if you expect me, or anyone else, to believe otherwise, then you are far more off the planet than I would have believed. All the diatribes I have heard from the 89ers support my belief that they are a bunch of opportunists who mis-calculated their power-base, as well as the power of Abeles, Hawke, et al in their determination to prevent a power-base shift. Face it, TTT, you got it wrong, pushed as hard as you could, tried to play the "work-to-rule" card and lost the public sympathy at that time, then resigned to protect your entitlements. Now, you expect the general public, or "the great unwashed" as Slasher refererred to them, to support your contention that there was a conspiracy against the AFAP by the government of the day. No, my friend, you brought the consequences on your own heads, and have NO reason to object when others apply for the posts you vacated for your own reasons. It is called "being responsible for your own actions", old son, next time try thinking ahead to outwit the "enemy", don't bleat about it afterwards when you get whacked over the head by someone who can weild more clout than you thought you had in your negotiations.
You amaze me, why do you assume that I hate pilots simply becxause I was ground staff? You really couldn't be more wrong, TTT, I have spent 41 years in aviation and, because of my work, have been privy to the standards necessary not only to become a pilot, but to remain one. Were I of an age where it was possible for me to change my type of work, then nothing would please me more than to become a pilot, but I am way too old to even contemplate the idea. I have a great deal of admiration for pilots, and what they go through and give up to achieve their aims. I have also attended the funerals of too many military pilots from my Squadrons to be unaware of the inherent dangers of the profession, so please do NOT attempt to denigrate me with your attempt to place yourself on the pedestal where you appear to believe you belong. Remember, TTT, I KNOW what it takes to be a pilot and, unlike most, I ALSO know how easy it has become with the advent of new technologies in powerplants and avionics. Indeed, I would go so far as to claim that I might have a better understanding of modern avionics systems than yourself, since part of my work as a tech you so love to despise was the software changes necesssary to run the avionics packages. That is NOT to claim that I am, or could be, a better pilot than anyone else, and I also realise that your skills are most needed when things go wrong, again I express my admiration for these. What I do not admire is the attitude I sometimes used to encounter from some pilots that they are on a level much higher then we mere mortals and, as such, deserving of special treatment. This attitude, I presume, was responsible for your apparent need to ridicule me, and it failed.
One more point - I also know what some of our (AN) senior pilots were being paid, pre-dispute, for about 10 stick hours per month and, if you expect me to believe that they were worthy of a 30% increase then you are even more of an idiot than the picture you paint here.
What I, and 16,00 others, now have is a non-existent comapany as a result of mis-mamagement by successive so-called managers from RMA onwards, whose interest bore no resemblance to the company's needs, followed by acquisition by an even more incompetent lot from over the Tasman Sea, NOT by the salaries paid to staff, be they Tech Crew, Cabin Crew or your hated ground-staff, so don't try blaming your "scabs" for that as well. The 89-ers were found wanting in more than one field, my friend, try accepting the blame for your own short-comings before shifting the blame to someone else. In that light, who was the more stupid?
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
My gratitude for the reference to my "youthfulness", I'm sure my wife and family will be amused by it as I can no longer claim to be youthful in other than outlook. BTW, you still neglected to tell me what a "Bex" is, could this be an early symptom of short-term memory loss?
In my first job following my arrival in Oz, I had to become a member of the ETU. In the time before I joined AN, I had a position as a Project Superviser in a field I'd rather not discuss here, suffice to say it required my being a Union member. NOT ONCE in the time I was in the position was I aware of the supposed "all for one, one for all" attitude you claim to be alive and well in Oz. Horsefeathers, mate, absolute garbage! Union solidarity means nothing more to the union leadership than the rank-and-file doing as the officials deem fit and proper, and God help anyone with a bent for asking awkward questions. The "proper result" to which you refer was/is the capitulation of management to demands, however outrageous, with the attendant increase in perceived power of the union, and if you expect me, or anyone else, to believe otherwise, then you are far more off the planet than I would have believed. All the diatribes I have heard from the 89ers support my belief that they are a bunch of opportunists who mis-calculated their power-base, as well as the power of Abeles, Hawke, et al in their determination to prevent a power-base shift. Face it, TTT, you got it wrong, pushed as hard as you could, tried to play the "work-to-rule" card and lost the public sympathy at that time, then resigned to protect your entitlements. Now, you expect the general public, or "the great unwashed" as Slasher refererred to them, to support your contention that there was a conspiracy against the AFAP by the government of the day. No, my friend, you brought the consequences on your own heads, and have NO reason to object when others apply for the posts you vacated for your own reasons. It is called "being responsible for your own actions", old son, next time try thinking ahead to outwit the "enemy", don't bleat about it afterwards when you get whacked over the head by someone who can weild more clout than you thought you had in your negotiations.
You amaze me, why do you assume that I hate pilots simply becxause I was ground staff? You really couldn't be more wrong, TTT, I have spent 41 years in aviation and, because of my work, have been privy to the standards necessary not only to become a pilot, but to remain one. Were I of an age where it was possible for me to change my type of work, then nothing would please me more than to become a pilot, but I am way too old to even contemplate the idea. I have a great deal of admiration for pilots, and what they go through and give up to achieve their aims. I have also attended the funerals of too many military pilots from my Squadrons to be unaware of the inherent dangers of the profession, so please do NOT attempt to denigrate me with your attempt to place yourself on the pedestal where you appear to believe you belong. Remember, TTT, I KNOW what it takes to be a pilot and, unlike most, I ALSO know how easy it has become with the advent of new technologies in powerplants and avionics. Indeed, I would go so far as to claim that I might have a better understanding of modern avionics systems than yourself, since part of my work as a tech you so love to despise was the software changes necesssary to run the avionics packages. That is NOT to claim that I am, or could be, a better pilot than anyone else, and I also realise that your skills are most needed when things go wrong, again I express my admiration for these. What I do not admire is the attitude I sometimes used to encounter from some pilots that they are on a level much higher then we mere mortals and, as such, deserving of special treatment. This attitude, I presume, was responsible for your apparent need to ridicule me, and it failed.
One more point - I also know what some of our (AN) senior pilots were being paid, pre-dispute, for about 10 stick hours per month and, if you expect me to believe that they were worthy of a 30% increase then you are even more of an idiot than the picture you paint here.
What I, and 16,00 others, now have is a non-existent comapany as a result of mis-mamagement by successive so-called managers from RMA onwards, whose interest bore no resemblance to the company's needs, followed by acquisition by an even more incompetent lot from over the Tasman Sea, NOT by the salaries paid to staff, be they Tech Crew, Cabin Crew or your hated ground-staff, so don't try blaming your "scabs" for that as well. The 89-ers were found wanting in more than one field, my friend, try accepting the blame for your own short-comings before shifting the blame to someone else. In that light, who was the more stupid?
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
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hey tool time, i'll be brief old chap. the 5% you mentioned that voted against the AFAP went back in the early stages of the dispute. the other 17% realised the fight was over when the feds tried to go back in october and the companies told them to take a hike, the foreigners were taking their jobs and the AFAP leadership refused to concede defeat. the returnees were not greedy in fact they wouldn't have given a damn what the pay was. ALL THEY WANTED was THEIR OWN jobs back!!! There is NOTHING un-Australian about that.
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1989 + 14 = 2003.
Well and truley time to F U & D. Get over it folks, you were ill advised. Lets put it into context. IT WAS AN INDUSTRIAL DISPUTE. Did anyone die? Was anyone injured? You really are sad individuals to carry such a petty argument for so long.
Jarse, thats a pretty long bow to draw, the jewish thing and all but I see your point.
Well and truley time to F U & D. Get over it folks, you were ill advised. Lets put it into context. IT WAS AN INDUSTRIAL DISPUTE. Did anyone die? Was anyone injured? You really are sad individuals to carry such a petty argument for so long.
Jarse, thats a pretty long bow to draw, the jewish thing and all but I see your point.
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Groundhog Day
Woomera caused a chuckle here at the Towers with that description.
Plus ca change ... plus c'est la meme chose
By the way - don't bother with suggestions to Danny's e-mail address. Well, not that one anyway. The date that was sent out was July 1st 1997
Play the ball not the player folks.
Regards
Rob
'' Welcome to the 14th edition of PPRuNe Rumours and Jet Blast by E-Mail.
PPRuNe by email is currently distributed to 343 recipients in 30 different countries!
The PPRuNe web site is visited by over 700 people every day from 39 different countries !! Over 96% of the visitors are professional airline pilots !!
Mostly Jet Blast today and almost all of that is about the Oz dispute in 1989. I don't know about you all but I'm getting a bit fed up with all the insulting and I'm in two minds whether to try and calm things down again. Suggestions to me at [email protected]
PPRuNe by email is currently distributed to 343 recipients in 30 different countries!
The PPRuNe web site is visited by over 700 people every day from 39 different countries !! Over 96% of the visitors are professional airline pilots !!
Mostly Jet Blast today and almost all of that is about the Oz dispute in 1989. I don't know about you all but I'm getting a bit fed up with all the insulting and I'm in two minds whether to try and calm things down again. Suggestions to me at [email protected]
By the way - don't bother with suggestions to Danny's e-mail address. Well, not that one anyway. The date that was sent out was July 1st 1997
Play the ball not the player folks.
Regards
Rob
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Oh Boy Owl!...you really do have a problem mate...and it's surely becoming obvious to all on Prune!
Do me a favour...find out what Bex is, take two, preferably in powder form, have that cup of tea a good lie down and then turn your computer off and don't come back to Prune again ever. You are gonna destroy yourself mate!!!
Do me a favour...find out what Bex is, take two, preferably in powder form, have that cup of tea a good lie down and then turn your computer off and don't come back to Prune again ever. You are gonna destroy yourself mate!!!
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The reason you can't buy Bex or Vincents anymore is they caused a generation to suffer from acute renal colic, or kidney stones; more painful than any other medical condition than perhaps osteosarcoma - bone cancer. Ergo, to tell someone to 'take a Bex and have a lie down' is equivalent to saying you hope they suffer unremitting, unpredictable and utterly incapacitating pain that will make their lives a living hell, eventually cause chronic kidney failure requiring dialysis, and a slow awfull death; and certainly ensure they never fly again as a PIC. Was that the intent?
As to the original thrust of this thread, from the standpoint of both an aviator and one who spent his youth in the 'Green Machine', to make ANY comparison between the sacrifices of Servicemen and Women who died in defence of this country, with the union industrial issues of '89 is offensive - moreso, because the same selfless men and women who fought, served and in some cases died in Vietnam, were denied the support of their country and their families while they did so, because of UNIONS BANNING THE LOADING OF SUPPLY SHIPS AND BANNING SERVICE MAIL!!
There are several facets to this (seemingly endless) debate; but you can keep that particular comparison OUT of them.
As to the original thrust of this thread, from the standpoint of both an aviator and one who spent his youth in the 'Green Machine', to make ANY comparison between the sacrifices of Servicemen and Women who died in defence of this country, with the union industrial issues of '89 is offensive - moreso, because the same selfless men and women who fought, served and in some cases died in Vietnam, were denied the support of their country and their families while they did so, because of UNIONS BANNING THE LOADING OF SUPPLY SHIPS AND BANNING SERVICE MAIL!!
There are several facets to this (seemingly endless) debate; but you can keep that particular comparison OUT of them.
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Rob
I think you and I have become invisible
It's still a good movie, up there with "The Goodfellas".
Cheers
W
Oh and BTW "Bex"
Composition:
Aspirin.
Actions:
Pharmacology: The analgesic, antipyretic anti-inflammatory effects of aspirin are due to actions by both the acetyl and the salicylate portions of the intact molecule as well as by the active salicylate metabolite.
Aspirin inhibits the activity of the enzyme cyclo-oxygenase and thus prostaglandins and thromboxane formation are decreased. The prostaglandin induced sensitivity of peripheral nerve endings to inflammation and pain mediators is eliminated.
By blocking thromboxane synthesis, aspirin rapidly inhibits platelet aggregation; this action is irreversible. Aspirin may also inhibit formation of prostacyclin, a platelet aggregation inhibitor. This action is reversible.
The antipyretic effect may involve central inhibition of prostaglandin synthesis in the hypothalamus.
Pharmacokinetics:
Absorption: After oral administration aspirin is rapidly absorbed partly from the stomach but mostly from the upper small intestine. The peak value is reached in about 20 to 40 minutes; the presence of food delays absorption of salicylates.
Aspirin is rapidly hydrolysed into salicylic acid in the plasma. The maximal blood concentration is reached within 2 to 4 hours depending on whether the subject is in a fasting state or not.
Distribution: After absorption, salicylate is distributed throughout most body tissues and most transcellular fluids (synovial fluid, peritoneal fluid, cerebrospinal fluid).
The volume of distribution varies according to the dosage and averages 0.1 - 0.2 L/kg. At concentrations encountered clinically, from 50 to 90% of the salicylate is bound to plasma proteins, especially albumin.
The bioavailability is about 80 to 100%.
Indications:
For the temporary relief of fever and pain of headache, rheumatic and muscular conditions and dysmenorrhoea.
Contra-indications:
Active gastroduodenal ulcers, hypersensitivity to salicylates, haemorrhagic disease, severe hepatic function impairment, the last 3 months of pregnancy, concurrent use of anticoagulants.
Warnings:
Asthmatics should consult their doctor before using preparations containing aspirin. Because of the possible association between Reye's syndrome and the ingestion of aspirin, care must be taken in administering aspirin to children or teenagers with chicken pox, influenza or fever.
Precautions:
Use with caution in patients with chronic or recurrent stomach or duodenal ulcers, gastric bleeding, severe renal disease, urticaria and gout.
Use in Pregnancy:
Category C. Aspirin inhibits prostaglandin synthesis. When given late in pregnancy, it may cause premature closure of the fetal ductus arteriosus, delay labour and birth. Aspirin increases the bleeding time both in the newborn infant and in the mother because of its antiplatelet effects. Products containing aspirin should be avoided in the last trimester.
Category C:
Drugs which, owing to their pharmacological effects, have caused or may be suspected of causing, harmful effects on the human foetus or neonate without causing malformations. These effects may be reversible. Accompanying text above should be consulted for further details.
Use in Lactation:
Salicylate is excreted in breast milk. With chronic high dose use, intake by the infant may be high enough to cause adverse effects and is contra-indicated.
Adverse Reactions:
Gastric irritation (mild gastric pain, heartburn) and increased bleeding times have been reported. Less common reactions include tinnitus, headache (the earliest symptoms of overdosage) gastrointestinal ulceration and haemorrhage.
Allergic and anaphylactic reactions include angioneurotic oedema, urticaria, skin rashes and a severe (and occasionally fatal) form of asthma have been reported.
Interactions:
Aspirin enhances the effect of:
Anticoagulants, coumarin, heparin, or thrombolytic agents (salicylates may displace these drugs from their protein-binding sites, and may cause hypoprothrombinaemia leading to increased anticoagulation and risk of bleeding).
Methotrexate; salicylates may decrease renal clearance of methotrexate leading to toxic methotrexate plasma concentrations. If they are used concurrently, methotrexate dosage should be decreased.
The hypoglycaemic effects of the sulfonylureas.
Aspirin decreases the effects of:
(NSAID) non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (decrease of bioavailability),
uricosuric agents. Aspirin increases the serum uric acid concentration,
diuretics (frusemide).
The effects of Aspirin may be decreased by concurrent use of antacids. The alkalisation of the urine increases salicylate excretion leading to decreased salicylate plasma concentration.
Overdosage:
Mild overdose (salicylism): Continuous ringing or buzzing in ears, or hearing loss and/or headache may be the earliest symptoms of overdose.
Severe overdose: Fever, excitement or confusion, hyperventilation, alterations in acid-base balance: respiratory alkalosis and metabolic acidosis, hyper or hypoglycaemia. Cardiovascular collapse and respiratory failure may result.
In young children the only sign of an overdose may be changes in behaviour: severe drowsiness and tiredness and/or fast or deep breathing.
The effects of overdosage in children are dramatic and may be lethal.
Treatment: Transfer the patient to a specialised hospital setting.
Empty the stomach via gastric lavage.
Monitor and support vital functions, correct fluid, electrolyte acid-base imbalances.
Induce forced alkaline diuresis to increase salicylate excretion.
Exchange transfusion, haemodialysis, peritoneal dialysis could be needed in severe overdose.
Dosage and Administration:
Powders:
Adults: 1 powder with 100 mL water, repeated every four hours if necessary to a maximum of 6 powders in 24 hours unless directed by a physician.
Do not administer to children under 6 years except on a physician's advice.
Pack:
Powders, 650 mg (white): 12,s.
Bex powders contain lactose.
No restriction-All States and A.C.T.
August 1999
I think you and I have become invisible
It's still a good movie, up there with "The Goodfellas".
Cheers
W
Oh and BTW "Bex"
Composition:
Aspirin.
Actions:
Pharmacology: The analgesic, antipyretic anti-inflammatory effects of aspirin are due to actions by both the acetyl and the salicylate portions of the intact molecule as well as by the active salicylate metabolite.
Aspirin inhibits the activity of the enzyme cyclo-oxygenase and thus prostaglandins and thromboxane formation are decreased. The prostaglandin induced sensitivity of peripheral nerve endings to inflammation and pain mediators is eliminated.
By blocking thromboxane synthesis, aspirin rapidly inhibits platelet aggregation; this action is irreversible. Aspirin may also inhibit formation of prostacyclin, a platelet aggregation inhibitor. This action is reversible.
The antipyretic effect may involve central inhibition of prostaglandin synthesis in the hypothalamus.
Pharmacokinetics:
Absorption: After oral administration aspirin is rapidly absorbed partly from the stomach but mostly from the upper small intestine. The peak value is reached in about 20 to 40 minutes; the presence of food delays absorption of salicylates.
Aspirin is rapidly hydrolysed into salicylic acid in the plasma. The maximal blood concentration is reached within 2 to 4 hours depending on whether the subject is in a fasting state or not.
Distribution: After absorption, salicylate is distributed throughout most body tissues and most transcellular fluids (synovial fluid, peritoneal fluid, cerebrospinal fluid).
The volume of distribution varies according to the dosage and averages 0.1 - 0.2 L/kg. At concentrations encountered clinically, from 50 to 90% of the salicylate is bound to plasma proteins, especially albumin.
The bioavailability is about 80 to 100%.
Indications:
For the temporary relief of fever and pain of headache, rheumatic and muscular conditions and dysmenorrhoea.
Contra-indications:
Active gastroduodenal ulcers, hypersensitivity to salicylates, haemorrhagic disease, severe hepatic function impairment, the last 3 months of pregnancy, concurrent use of anticoagulants.
Warnings:
Asthmatics should consult their doctor before using preparations containing aspirin. Because of the possible association between Reye's syndrome and the ingestion of aspirin, care must be taken in administering aspirin to children or teenagers with chicken pox, influenza or fever.
Precautions:
Use with caution in patients with chronic or recurrent stomach or duodenal ulcers, gastric bleeding, severe renal disease, urticaria and gout.
Use in Pregnancy:
Category C. Aspirin inhibits prostaglandin synthesis. When given late in pregnancy, it may cause premature closure of the fetal ductus arteriosus, delay labour and birth. Aspirin increases the bleeding time both in the newborn infant and in the mother because of its antiplatelet effects. Products containing aspirin should be avoided in the last trimester.
Category C:
Drugs which, owing to their pharmacological effects, have caused or may be suspected of causing, harmful effects on the human foetus or neonate without causing malformations. These effects may be reversible. Accompanying text above should be consulted for further details.
Use in Lactation:
Salicylate is excreted in breast milk. With chronic high dose use, intake by the infant may be high enough to cause adverse effects and is contra-indicated.
Adverse Reactions:
Gastric irritation (mild gastric pain, heartburn) and increased bleeding times have been reported. Less common reactions include tinnitus, headache (the earliest symptoms of overdosage) gastrointestinal ulceration and haemorrhage.
Allergic and anaphylactic reactions include angioneurotic oedema, urticaria, skin rashes and a severe (and occasionally fatal) form of asthma have been reported.
Interactions:
Aspirin enhances the effect of:
Anticoagulants, coumarin, heparin, or thrombolytic agents (salicylates may displace these drugs from their protein-binding sites, and may cause hypoprothrombinaemia leading to increased anticoagulation and risk of bleeding).
Methotrexate; salicylates may decrease renal clearance of methotrexate leading to toxic methotrexate plasma concentrations. If they are used concurrently, methotrexate dosage should be decreased.
The hypoglycaemic effects of the sulfonylureas.
Aspirin decreases the effects of:
(NSAID) non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (decrease of bioavailability),
uricosuric agents. Aspirin increases the serum uric acid concentration,
diuretics (frusemide).
The effects of Aspirin may be decreased by concurrent use of antacids. The alkalisation of the urine increases salicylate excretion leading to decreased salicylate plasma concentration.
Overdosage:
Mild overdose (salicylism): Continuous ringing or buzzing in ears, or hearing loss and/or headache may be the earliest symptoms of overdose.
Severe overdose: Fever, excitement or confusion, hyperventilation, alterations in acid-base balance: respiratory alkalosis and metabolic acidosis, hyper or hypoglycaemia. Cardiovascular collapse and respiratory failure may result.
In young children the only sign of an overdose may be changes in behaviour: severe drowsiness and tiredness and/or fast or deep breathing.
The effects of overdosage in children are dramatic and may be lethal.
Treatment: Transfer the patient to a specialised hospital setting.
Empty the stomach via gastric lavage.
Monitor and support vital functions, correct fluid, electrolyte acid-base imbalances.
Induce forced alkaline diuresis to increase salicylate excretion.
Exchange transfusion, haemodialysis, peritoneal dialysis could be needed in severe overdose.
Dosage and Administration:
Powders:
Adults: 1 powder with 100 mL water, repeated every four hours if necessary to a maximum of 6 powders in 24 hours unless directed by a physician.
Do not administer to children under 6 years except on a physician's advice.
Pack:
Powders, 650 mg (white): 12,s.
Bex powders contain lactose.
No restriction-All States and A.C.T.
August 1999
Last edited by Woomera; 20th Feb 2003 at 11:37.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Still in Paradise
Age: 60
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Woomera - well done old boy! BUT.......
Anyone can cut & paste from MIMS (or whatever reference you used); however the BEX you buy today is NOT the BEX that the saying originated with 30 years + ago. Jump back on your computer and do a literature search for BEX / VINCENTS and undesirable side effects dating back to that period, and you will see what I referred to. Better yet, whip over to the local Medical University Path Lab and ask to see a BEX kidney - they'll know what you mean.
Cheers.
Anyone can cut & paste from MIMS (or whatever reference you used); however the BEX you buy today is NOT the BEX that the saying originated with 30 years + ago. Jump back on your computer and do a literature search for BEX / VINCENTS and undesirable side effects dating back to that period, and you will see what I referred to. Better yet, whip over to the local Medical University Path Lab and ask to see a BEX kidney - they'll know what you mean.
Cheers.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 84
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amos2: Still no rebuttal of my argument, I see, getting a little too close to the bone, was I? I'll save my time and effort for a reply to someone worth the effort, not a brain-dead moron like you.
My thanks, Jamair, for your information, I am quite willing to believe that would have been amos2's intent, had he been possessed of the intellect to be able to put it on paper, so to speak! It seems to have been quite vicious stuff, how the hell did it get past the pharmacologists and onto the market in that form? What Woomera posted confirms all my beliefs in medicine, i.e. stay away from anything you don't need, until it is prescribed by a doctor. I'd hate to think I might end up like amos2 in the future!!
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
My thanks, Jamair, for your information, I am quite willing to believe that would have been amos2's intent, had he been possessed of the intellect to be able to put it on paper, so to speak! It seems to have been quite vicious stuff, how the hell did it get past the pharmacologists and onto the market in that form? What Woomera posted confirms all my beliefs in medicine, i.e. stay away from anything you don't need, until it is prescribed by a doctor. I'd hate to think I might end up like amos2 in the future!!
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.