Maintenance releases
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Maintenance releases
Had to hire a C182 this weekend, I noticed that the flight I had planned would take it over the time for the 100 hourly so I told the operator.
His reply was that his engineer had given approval to go up to 10% over on the 100 hourly.
I could not see anything on the maintanance release about this and as I have never heard of it I rejected the aircraft.
I have searched the casa website but cannot find any reference to this practice.
Can anyone let me know if it is legit or a fiddle
His reply was that his engineer had given approval to go up to 10% over on the 100 hourly.
I could not see anything on the maintanance release about this and as I have never heard of it I rejected the aircraft.
I have searched the casa website but cannot find any reference to this practice.
Can anyone let me know if it is legit or a fiddle
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Sounds like a load of "bull" to me - the same type of bull many dodgy operators tell their pilots.
If it is not on the maintenance release, then it can not be done.
Do not be so gullible.
If it is not on the maintenance release, then it can not be done.
Do not be so gullible.
Last edited by Bagot_Community_Locator; 14th Jan 2003 at 08:51.
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That’s a new one to me!!!!!
But be careful when hiring an aircraft especially with an aircraft that is approaching the 100 hour limitation.
Some operators have told gullible pilots it is OK to run over the 100 hour limitation provide it is a private operation and the 12 months on the maintenance release hasn't expired.
They say that CASA has no limitation on how many hours a private aircraft does in a 12 month period and the 100 hour limitation doesn't apply.
This is technically not correct. Some aircraft that are privately owned and are not used for commercial operations only have to do a periodical inspection every 12 months and they don't have the 100 hour limitations on them.
Be very careful in this area........... I believe the Civil Aviation Act provides for large penalties for people flying with out a valid maintenance release ( 2 years imprisonment ) not withstanding what a insurance company would say or do if you had an accident without a valid m/release
But be careful when hiring an aircraft especially with an aircraft that is approaching the 100 hour limitation.
Some operators have told gullible pilots it is OK to run over the 100 hour limitation provide it is a private operation and the 12 months on the maintenance release hasn't expired.
They say that CASA has no limitation on how many hours a private aircraft does in a 12 month period and the 100 hour limitation doesn't apply.
This is technically not correct. Some aircraft that are privately owned and are not used for commercial operations only have to do a periodical inspection every 12 months and they don't have the 100 hour limitations on them.
Be very careful in this area........... I believe the Civil Aviation Act provides for large penalties for people flying with out a valid maintenance release ( 2 years imprisonment ) not withstanding what a insurance company would say or do if you had an accident without a valid m/release
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It is possible to run an aircraft on a 100+/-10hr validity period. I’m not sure what the special requirements are (if any?), but it does exist. Our company operates on 100+/-10hr, however that’s what is specified in Part 1 of the maintenance releases.
As mentioned earlier though, don’t believe anything unless it is in ink on the MR.
As mentioned earlier though, don’t believe anything unless it is in ink on the MR.
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A maintenance release is valid to the hours/date of expiry, whatever comes first. End of story. Beyond that time/date the aircraft is without a valid maintenance release.
The ten percent often quoted and as equally often misinterpreted relates to various inspections called up in the MR. For example an oil change required at fifty hours into a 100 hour MR may be completed between 45 and 55 hours without penalty.
I guess an insurer would have an easy cop-out if the aircraft sustained damage without a valid MR. No doubt the owner would recover his damages from the pilot!
Dave,
Perhaps your company has put up a case relating to ground time. Saw a few aircraft where the operator recorded 90% of the tacho as flight time and such was entered on the MR. I suspect that practice has been stamped out in my neck of the woods and most operators have fitted an air switch to record flight hours for MR purposes - they still slug the student VDO!
The ten percent often quoted and as equally often misinterpreted relates to various inspections called up in the MR. For example an oil change required at fifty hours into a 100 hour MR may be completed between 45 and 55 hours without penalty.
I guess an insurer would have an easy cop-out if the aircraft sustained damage without a valid MR. No doubt the owner would recover his damages from the pilot!
Dave,
Perhaps your company has put up a case relating to ground time. Saw a few aircraft where the operator recorded 90% of the tacho as flight time and such was entered on the MR. I suspect that practice has been stamped out in my neck of the woods and most operators have fitted an air switch to record flight hours for MR purposes - they still slug the student VDO!
Quite common to record flight time in the MR and charge student VDO.
As for running over the MR - as I am aware the only time that might be legit is if there is unforeseen circumstances during a flight that was due to finish prior to the 100 hourly.
Eg. 2 hours left to run, you may do a 2 hour flight planned flight if there is no notammed traffic holding or weather holding. If you are radar vectored for controller amusement or the like and end up at 2.1 then that's fine.
As long as the original flight time (plus foreseeable delays like TEMPOs) was planned to be back before expiry you are covered.
Cannot recall the reg though....
Not uncommon to have CASA approved maintenance systems which have 120 hours between inspections. However this 120 limit is written into the MR and is an upper limit.
As for running over the MR - as I am aware the only time that might be legit is if there is unforeseen circumstances during a flight that was due to finish prior to the 100 hourly.
Eg. 2 hours left to run, you may do a 2 hour flight planned flight if there is no notammed traffic holding or weather holding. If you are radar vectored for controller amusement or the like and end up at 2.1 then that's fine.
As long as the original flight time (plus foreseeable delays like TEMPOs) was planned to be back before expiry you are covered.
Cannot recall the reg though....
Not uncommon to have CASA approved maintenance systems which have 120 hours between inspections. However this 120 limit is written into the MR and is an upper limit.
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Definitely not 90% of taco time. The MR states 100+/-10 hrs for the validity period (i.e flight time not taco time).
These MRs have got through numerous random ramp checks and regular maintenance audits by CASA, so they have proven to be legitimate.
These MRs have got through numerous random ramp checks and regular maintenance audits by CASA, so they have proven to be legitimate.
Moderator
Slightly off topic, but in defence of operators, the student or hirer is charged VDO (ie oil pressure on-oil pressure off) and that is what they log and what instructors paid by the hour are paid for. Now, when doing costings for aircraft with a VDO you can work on about 115 revenue (VDO) hours for 100 maintenance hours.
So if people want to hire our aircraft on airswitch that's fine, but they have to pay 15% more per airswitch hour than they would on VDO. the aeroplane costs the same to operate whatever clock you use.
So if people want to hire our aircraft on airswitch that's fine, but they have to pay 15% more per airswitch hour than they would on VDO. the aeroplane costs the same to operate whatever clock you use.
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CFI,
point taken, however when hiring an aircraft to fly solo, it is fairly rare that you will then get charged by airswitch/flight time. Most of the time you still get charged VDO even though there isn’t an instructor beside you.
This means that while you are letting the engine warm up, completing your checks/run-ups and taxiing to/from the runway, waiting at the holding point due traffic/ATC, you are getting charged lets say $150/hr. During this time, there are no maintenance costs being incurred by the company hiring out the aircraft and the fuel burn at idle is close to insignificant. I’ve seen many people try and overcome this by taxiing fast, breaking hard, rushing checks etc., just so they can shut down before the VDO clicks over into it’s next digit. Sure it is poor airmanship, but the temptation is there for some people.
point taken, however when hiring an aircraft to fly solo, it is fairly rare that you will then get charged by airswitch/flight time. Most of the time you still get charged VDO even though there isn’t an instructor beside you.
This means that while you are letting the engine warm up, completing your checks/run-ups and taxiing to/from the runway, waiting at the holding point due traffic/ATC, you are getting charged lets say $150/hr. During this time, there are no maintenance costs being incurred by the company hiring out the aircraft and the fuel burn at idle is close to insignificant. I’ve seen many people try and overcome this by taxiing fast, breaking hard, rushing checks etc., just so they can shut down before the VDO clicks over into it’s next digit. Sure it is poor airmanship, but the temptation is there for some people.
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CS as usual you are correct down to the last word.
Here's an interesting one for you...
Whats the worst MR bungle you've ever seen?
Checking an MR once found that a Baron put on 2000 hours in one flight - yep the slip of the pen from 6000 to 8000 hours.
Its amazing the errors that you may sometimes find in the MR thats why you must constantly check it, not just pilot errors but engineering errors... How many times have you recieved a fresh MR only to find that details are missing?
Heres a question that pops up fairly often, what do you do if on the MR your aircraft is due for a rewiegh and you have to go flying, yet the MR doesn't expire for another 30 hours? Can you fly?
HA.
Here's an interesting one for you...
Whats the worst MR bungle you've ever seen?
Checking an MR once found that a Baron put on 2000 hours in one flight - yep the slip of the pen from 6000 to 8000 hours.
Its amazing the errors that you may sometimes find in the MR thats why you must constantly check it, not just pilot errors but engineering errors... How many times have you recieved a fresh MR only to find that details are missing?
Heres a question that pops up fairly often, what do you do if on the MR your aircraft is due for a rewiegh and you have to go flying, yet the MR doesn't expire for another 30 hours? Can you fly?
HA.
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Too many variables have been quoted here!
Everything depends on
Is the aircraft being maintained (operated) as a class A or a Class B aircraft. There are 2 different methods of time measurement involved, the watch or the calender.
To further muddy the waters, which approved system of maintenance is being used, is it:
Manufacturers System,
CASR part 105 annex A
or
Another system approved by CASA.
All aircraft are either A or B and then one of the 3 maintenance systems are applied.
Simple
really!
ding
Everything depends on
Is the aircraft being maintained (operated) as a class A or a Class B aircraft. There are 2 different methods of time measurement involved, the watch or the calender.
To further muddy the waters, which approved system of maintenance is being used, is it:
Manufacturers System,
CASR part 105 annex A
or
Another system approved by CASA.
All aircraft are either A or B and then one of the 3 maintenance systems are applied.
Simple
really!ding
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Whats the worst MR bungle you've ever seen?
Moderator
Dave Incognito,
What I mean is that when calculating costing for your aircraft, you spread the cost over the revenue hours or the airswitch hours.
eg 100 hours on the maintenance release you budget $2500 maintenance costs for that time. This can either be done as $25 per hour on the airswitch, or $21.75 on the VDO, if you use the reasoning that there are 115 VDO hours per 100 airswitch hours. So someone hiring the aircraft on airswitch pays a higher rate per hour as the fixed costs are being spread over less hours.
So nobody is getting "slugged", it's just another way of calculating the hourly rate.
What I mean is that when calculating costing for your aircraft, you spread the cost over the revenue hours or the airswitch hours.
eg 100 hours on the maintenance release you budget $2500 maintenance costs for that time. This can either be done as $25 per hour on the airswitch, or $21.75 on the VDO, if you use the reasoning that there are 115 VDO hours per 100 airswitch hours. So someone hiring the aircraft on airswitch pays a higher rate per hour as the fixed costs are being spread over less hours.
So nobody is getting "slugged", it's just another way of calculating the hourly rate.
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I heard some engineers today saying you can go up to 10 % over the hours of the MR BUT only for a ferry flight. (ie. MR valid for 100 hours, you can fly 110 hours)
I have never heard anything like this before
I have never heard anything like this before
Ugly,
You and I know it's a slip of the pen, but to an insurer it's a get-out-of-jail-free card.
Imagine youself in court. What would you say when a be-wigged, silk robed person says words to the effect of "would you care to tell the court why you commenced a flight in this aircraft when you knew that the maintenance release was out of date by a year?"
You'd need a good story!
You and I know it's a slip of the pen, but to an insurer it's a get-out-of-jail-free card.
Imagine youself in court. What would you say when a be-wigged, silk robed person says words to the effect of "would you care to tell the court why you commenced a flight in this aircraft when you knew that the maintenance release was out of date by a year?"
You'd need a good story!
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Dingo youve hit the nail right on the head, it all depends on the maintenance system being used. For example a 172R being maintained to manufactures standards has a 120hr limit.
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piston twin,
that may be correct but the bottom line to the issue is that unless it is stated in ink on the MR, then it cannot legally be done. I am sure that if the 172R was being maintained to that standard it would say on the MR that the service was due at the 120 hour mark.
that may be correct but the bottom line to the issue is that unless it is stated in ink on the MR, then it cannot legally be done. I am sure that if the 172R was being maintained to that standard it would say on the MR that the service was due at the 120 hour mark.
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This post should have been titled ‘urban myths’. I realise that the intricacies of Maintenance Releases are probably the least understood aspect of aviation for pilots but I feel that some of the statements above are uninformed and misleading.
So perhaps we can run our Class 1 medical out to 1.1 years or likewise with our instrument ratings? Hardly. A period of validity is exactly that and such validity expires at a specific time in service or date. We operate a class A aircraft that has a 300 hour MR. During the validity period four phase inspections are called up that involve airframe and engines. 1 & 2 occur at 150 hours but may be varied plus or minus ten percent to allow flexibility. 3 & 4 expire at 300 hours – no flexibility. Other Phase inspections such as battery or RAD may occur at TIS or date. In the case of the ‘date’ there is no flexibility. I feel that the writer of this quote is confusing intermediate inspections and if he believes otherwise should take it up with the maintenance service provider to establish the correct procedure. His chief pilot may thank him for it.
Expiry of a MR in such circumstances is no different to any other intentional overrun. The breach is neither justified nor excused by law. The court would therefore decide if an offence was committed or if there were mitigating circumstances.
Perhaps such a case may exist for foreign aircraft but that would be dependent upon the laws of the particular state. Again I have not seen such a relaxation under the CARS.
Ain't that the truth.
CAR 38 provides CASA with the authority to give directions relating to maintenance of Australian aircraft.
CARS 39 & 41 imposes requirements upon the certificate of registration holder to ensure that maintenance called up in the maintenance schedule is carried out when required.
CARS 42A, 42B & 42C provides the certificate of registration holder with options upon which to base his maintenance schedule – manufacturer’s, CASA or approved system.
CAR 43 (5) Provides CASA with the necessary authority to dictate the maximum period that a MR can remain in force.
CAR 43 (9) allows the issuing authority of the MR to specify conditions (endorsements) for the purpose of ensuring the safety of air navigation. (Those conditions are usually listed with a TTIS or ‘date’ to complete various checks or component overhauls that may be required during the validity period of the MR eg. Prop overhaul, oil change, instrument AD)
I’m happy to debate any of the issues I raised above but please quote the regulation, not some gossip relayed through the Townsville refueller!
It is possible to run an aircraft on a 100+/-10hr validity period
As for running over the MR - as I am aware the only time that might be legit is if there is unforeseen circumstances during a flight that was due to finish prior to the 100 hourly….Cannot recall the reg though....
I heard some engineers today saying you can go up to 10 % over the hours of the MR BUT only for a ferry flight. (ie. MR valid for 100 hours, you can fly 110 hours)
If it ain't written down forget it.
CAR 38 provides CASA with the authority to give directions relating to maintenance of Australian aircraft.
CARS 39 & 41 imposes requirements upon the certificate of registration holder to ensure that maintenance called up in the maintenance schedule is carried out when required.
CARS 42A, 42B & 42C provides the certificate of registration holder with options upon which to base his maintenance schedule – manufacturer’s, CASA or approved system.
CAR 43 (5) Provides CASA with the necessary authority to dictate the maximum period that a MR can remain in force.
CAR 43 (9) allows the issuing authority of the MR to specify conditions (endorsements) for the purpose of ensuring the safety of air navigation. (Those conditions are usually listed with a TTIS or ‘date’ to complete various checks or component overhauls that may be required during the validity period of the MR eg. Prop overhaul, oil change, instrument AD)
I’m happy to debate any of the issues I raised above but please quote the regulation, not some gossip relayed through the Townsville refueller!
Last edited by Blue Hauler; 15th Jan 2003 at 12:51.
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Correct Ding
What Maintenance system is the aircraft being maintained to.....My 402 is 220 hours with inspections at 50 hours with a 10% leeway to 55 hours, thus 220 hours.
Torres will be able to answer this better than I, but in the regs somewhere, yes I'm too bloody busy & lazy to go find, it states that you can run over your M/R if positioning the aircraft for maintenance IAW the maintenance system the aircraft is being operated to.
Torres will be able to answer this better than I, but in the regs somewhere, yes I'm too bloody busy & lazy to go find, it states that you can run over your M/R if positioning the aircraft for maintenance IAW the maintenance system the aircraft is being operated to.