Women in Aviation???
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Got to agree with Spinnerhead, the odd one AND THERE IS NOT MANY are VERY GOOD. But the in the main they do not aw f...$ I'm digging a hole here!
I taught quite a few and no I didn't inspect the furry logbook, maybe I should have.
Unfortunately many are not up to it but so are a lot of "testosterone loaded jocks"
Most of the women that make it through to the "heavy metal sh..t" have done it on ability although it is a worry for the future of a Capt. who may lose the plot when critised by the crew and public as an F/O was with me once after a very "positive" arrival and just burst into tears. How do you handle that - it's not in the QRH
I'm outta here this thread is a minefield
I taught quite a few and no I didn't inspect the furry logbook, maybe I should have.
Unfortunately many are not up to it but so are a lot of "testosterone loaded jocks"
Most of the women that make it through to the "heavy metal sh..t" have done it on ability although it is a worry for the future of a Capt. who may lose the plot when critised by the crew and public as an F/O was with me once after a very "positive" arrival and just burst into tears. How do you handle that - it's not in the QRH
I'm outta here this thread is a minefield
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The fury logbook is a part of life we are just going to have to accept. Women only gain an unfair advantage when we let them.
Unfortunately it starts off very early. At uni all sorts of tricks were used to gain the edge..it then carried on and on.
Unfortunately it starts off very early. At uni all sorts of tricks were used to gain the edge..it then carried on and on.
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Gender Paranoia
Ah it's good to see that paranoia still survives.
It seems obvious that women, being different to men, must get their aviation oriented jobs by virtue of cunning underhanded behaviour. They could not possibly be given a job on merit.
If a company decided to favour women, to balance the gender gap, let's not criticise the company, let's blame the women for simply applying for a job and taking advantage of an offer of employment.
Because we all know that no male has ever been offered a job because of who he knew, or simply that he was a known quantity to the employer! No male has ever been 'head hunted' to the detriment of all the other persons who could have done the same job.
IMHO I've met as many dopey male pilots as I have dopey female pilots. I'd guess that there are as many female pilots who think that way about me as there do male pilots.
Surely it boils down to us all being human beings with equal rights to put our hat in the ring. One uses whatever selling points one has to try and make one's self the most attractive applicant for a position. I have yet to meet a female pilot who I think was employed simply because some reprobate male thought he'd get a bit on the side!
It seems obvious that women, being different to men, must get their aviation oriented jobs by virtue of cunning underhanded behaviour. They could not possibly be given a job on merit.
If a company decided to favour women, to balance the gender gap, let's not criticise the company, let's blame the women for simply applying for a job and taking advantage of an offer of employment.
Because we all know that no male has ever been offered a job because of who he knew, or simply that he was a known quantity to the employer! No male has ever been 'head hunted' to the detriment of all the other persons who could have done the same job.
IMHO I've met as many dopey male pilots as I have dopey female pilots. I'd guess that there are as many female pilots who think that way about me as there do male pilots.
Surely it boils down to us all being human beings with equal rights to put our hat in the ring. One uses whatever selling points one has to try and make one's self the most attractive applicant for a position. I have yet to meet a female pilot who I think was employed simply because some reprobate male thought he'd get a bit on the side!
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Aboriginal pilots?
Len Walters, only WWII aboriginal fighter pilot
Flew P40s
http://www.blackaviation.com/waters.htm
Len Walters, only WWII aboriginal fighter pilot
Flew P40s
http://www.blackaviation.com/waters.htm
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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I remember reading a short story once about the pilots of a Beaufighter sqadron sitting around one morning, low overcast so no flying. They were complaining that the Beau was a bit dangerous, unstable in tight turns etc etc.
Next thing a Beau whistled over their heads, pulled up into a stall turn just under the overcast dropping flaps and gear at the top, then coming straight in for an absolute greaser of a landing.
All the pilots rushed out to see who was the pilotand were shocked to see the pilot stepping out of the Beaughfighter, pulling off the flying helmet to reveal long blonde hair!!! An ATS lady!
It was said that the squadron in question never again complained about the Beaufighter in any way whatsoever.
Next thing a Beau whistled over their heads, pulled up into a stall turn just under the overcast dropping flaps and gear at the top, then coming straight in for an absolute greaser of a landing.
All the pilots rushed out to see who was the pilotand were shocked to see the pilot stepping out of the Beaughfighter, pulling off the flying helmet to reveal long blonde hair!!! An ATS lady!
It was said that the squadron in question never again complained about the Beaufighter in any way whatsoever.
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My my my, aren't the misogynists crawling out of the woodwork?
The American WASPS were actually picked to train male pilots in the B29 superfortress because the men weren't happy to fly it. The women pilots had to demonstrate how easy it was to handle before it was accepted. I could cite a number of other examples but I have better things to do with my time that demonstrate that some of the people arguing on this thread are doing nothing more than displaying their own inadequacies, both as pilots and people.
Women fly, we fly well, get over it and get a life.
The American WASPS were actually picked to train male pilots in the B29 superfortress because the men weren't happy to fly it. The women pilots had to demonstrate how easy it was to handle before it was accepted. I could cite a number of other examples but I have better things to do with my time that demonstrate that some of the people arguing on this thread are doing nothing more than displaying their own inadequacies, both as pilots and people.
Women fly, we fly well, get over it and get a life.
Last edited by Foyl; 30th Jan 2003 at 20:33.
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I think the debate is not so much about womans place in aviation as it is about mens place in todays society all together. Gone are the days where Men are the Hunters and Woman are the gathers, I think that Men today have no idea what there role is in todays society and thus feel that they have degrade woman in order to make themselves less insecure about it.
The most interesting thing though is that woman in Aviaiton generally don't care what the men think of them, we do our job and go home at the end of the day with out another thought to what male pilots think of us.
But don't worry boys we understand if you need someone to blame for your downfalls when you get passed over on a job for a female, you can continue to use us for that purpose because we really don't care.
The most interesting thing though is that woman in Aviaiton generally don't care what the men think of them, we do our job and go home at the end of the day with out another thought to what male pilots think of us.
But don't worry boys we understand if you need someone to blame for your downfalls when you get passed over on a job for a female, you can continue to use us for that purpose because we really don't care.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Spinnerhead; er....that really was'nt the point I was trying to get across. Think about it for a while.
Thread Starter
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Just to lay some background info...
Ive been raised by a left wing, do gooder femo-nazi mother and this thread was half wind up, but sometimes we need to wind up to get the real stories. Keep them coming. I have tought females to drive cars and I have found that to be an extremely trying task. Too may tears etc. Failure to accept constructive critism, without being overly defensive and/or breaking out into tears. Has any Instructors out there found dealing with female students being vastly different to that of teaching males to fly. I was not/and still am not perfect in any way. But that whole spacial awareness ~ parking analogy goes along way.
Dr Shmoo
Ive been raised by a left wing, do gooder femo-nazi mother and this thread was half wind up, but sometimes we need to wind up to get the real stories. Keep them coming. I have tought females to drive cars and I have found that to be an extremely trying task. Too may tears etc. Failure to accept constructive critism, without being overly defensive and/or breaking out into tears. Has any Instructors out there found dealing with female students being vastly different to that of teaching males to fly. I was not/and still am not perfect in any way. But that whole spacial awareness ~ parking analogy goes along way.
Dr Shmoo
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Doc and others,
I guess I've trained over 20 girls to fly. The youngest being 11 and would have soloed in well under 10 hrs if it were allowed under the regs.
Interestingly, none of the girls I trained were really any different emotionally to the guys. But then again, I'm not terribly perceptive at picking up signals from chicks
But I don't remember ever seeing any of them cry. Perhaps the crying had something to do with the way the lesson was delivered?
Most of the girls did a sh!tload more preparation between flights than the guys. Made my job a lot easier
I guess I've trained over 20 girls to fly. The youngest being 11 and would have soloed in well under 10 hrs if it were allowed under the regs.
Interestingly, none of the girls I trained were really any different emotionally to the guys. But then again, I'm not terribly perceptive at picking up signals from chicks
But I don't remember ever seeing any of them cry. Perhaps the crying had something to do with the way the lesson was delivered?Most of the girls did a sh!tload more preparation between flights than the guys. Made my job a lot easier
Oi Shmoo!
Are you getting the right letter in the right envelope these days? 
Hope you're doing OK, don't let Bozo stress yer too much! Say G'day to Festa and Skoggs for me if yer could!
Hope you're doing OK, don't let Bozo stress yer too much! Say G'day to Festa and Skoggs for me if yer could!
Some of the worst pilots I've ever seen were male. Others were female.
Some of the best were female. Others were male.
Big deal. It's not gender, it's the individual.
Some of the best were female. Others were male.
Big deal. It's not gender, it's the individual.
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I'm with Dan, Hugh and the enlightened others, gender has nothing to do with it, except as Hugh avers as a bonus in their approach.
mrs woomera and the princesses woomera are monitoring this thread closely
and keep making references to women posessing superior skills in something called "multitasking" and "seeing eyes" denied to the male gender.
Gotta go for the "seeing eyes" thing as in, "wheres the (looking in fridge or cupboard) blah blah? .........it's in the fridge, cupbd etc.......I can't find it!............look,........ there it is (row 46 shelf 52) .......fact that 'tomato sauce' had been transferred into unlabeled bottle for as yet unexplained reasons, has nothing with it to do.
"Multitasking" I think means the ability to carry on a chick type telephone conversation with a friend, giving son marching orders for the day, whilst making his lunch, making sure the clothes he wears aren't more than a week old, sorting out the cleaning lady, redesigning the interior of the toaster with the meat mallet and
advising me on how to deal with current business crisis, all at the same time. I'm always overawed.
Problem was explained to me listening to one of the excellent ABC interviews.It was a stunning revelation and so simple when you undertstand it.
And I hasten to say I am not being patronising when I convey that it is the difference in the way that they and we think.
I thought I already knew that, but had not worked out why.
Very clever scientist explained why mrs woomera and I for example do not travel well together the in the car, say when directions to the destination are concerned.
It goes something like this.
We are driving to a destination to which she has been but not I, and I'm driving.
mrs: go down the street that goes to the beach to that big shopping centre then turn left, keep going until you see a big house with a purple fence, you are nearly there, then when you get to the park, it's the house over the other side next to the laneway.
Translated to men speak,
go (up) North along ABC street for a kilometre turn left into XYZ street for another 2km, (you will, incidentally, see a big purple fence on the left that I thought was pretty), when you get to the park turn off and its the house blah blah.
It's simple, she is object/picture oriented, I am not.
mrs woomera and the princesses woomera are monitoring this thread closely
and keep making references to women posessing superior skills in something called "multitasking" and "seeing eyes" denied to the male gender.Gotta go for the "seeing eyes" thing as in, "wheres the (looking in fridge or cupboard) blah blah? .........it's in the fridge, cupbd etc.......I can't find it!............look,........ there it is (row 46 shelf 52) .......fact that 'tomato sauce' had been transferred into unlabeled bottle for as yet unexplained reasons, has nothing with it to do.
"Multitasking" I think means the ability to carry on a chick type telephone conversation with a friend, giving son marching orders for the day, whilst making his lunch, making sure the clothes he wears aren't more than a week old, sorting out the cleaning lady, redesigning the interior of the toaster with the meat mallet and
advising me on how to deal with current business crisis, all at the same time.
I'm always overawed. Problem was explained to me listening to one of the excellent ABC interviews.It was a stunning revelation and so simple when you undertstand it.
And I hasten to say I am not being patronising when I convey that it is the difference in the way that they and we think.
I thought I already knew that, but had not worked out why.
Very clever scientist explained why mrs woomera and I for example do not travel well together the in the car, say when directions to the destination are concerned.
It goes something like this.
We are driving to a destination to which she has been but not I, and I'm driving.
mrs: go down the street that goes to the beach to that big shopping centre then turn left, keep going until you see a big house with a purple fence, you are nearly there, then when you get to the park, it's the house over the other side next to the laneway.
Translated to men speak,
go (up) North along ABC street for a kilometre turn left into XYZ street for another 2km, (you will, incidentally, see a big purple fence on the left that I thought was pretty), when you get to the park turn off and its the house blah blah.
It's simple, she is object/picture oriented, I am not.
Well said Woomera.
I have observed or flown with Female Pilots in PNG/GA and Airlines in Australia-
on average -they have been better operators and generally more knowledgeable than their Male counterparts.
Comments on how some individuals advance their career are from individuals who have a chip on their shoulder. I am sure many Males have worked for nothing or even paid to work for an operator-these are just facts of life.
Good luck to all our Female Pilots-it will be quite some years before they can say its a level playing field-despite the hysteria and paranoia evident here?
I have observed or flown with Female Pilots in PNG/GA and Airlines in Australia-
on average -they have been better operators and generally more knowledgeable than their Male counterparts.
Comments on how some individuals advance their career are from individuals who have a chip on their shoulder. I am sure many Males have worked for nothing or even paid to work for an operator-these are just facts of life.
Good luck to all our Female Pilots-it will be quite some years before they can say its a level playing field-despite the hysteria and paranoia evident here?
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At Aviex one of the AWPA members was met with a tirade from a woman when she merely asked if the woman was interested in flying. The woman said yes, and that she was a pilot, but she then launched into a tirade about how women don't need organisations like the AWPA to provide a support group for women pilots or to promote women pilot's interests. She said that the AWPA was an obsolete anachronism born in a time of discrimination which didn't exist any more, and it was now purposeless and we should just give it up (although what she was doing at the AWPA stand in the first place was beyond me...).
Thank you gentlemen. I will be directing people who query the AWPA's raison d'etre to this thread.
Thank you gentlemen. I will be directing people who query the AWPA's raison d'etre to this thread.