B58 Gear Up at Gold Coast Airport (Coolangatta)

[601]

I'm wondering what more could have been done in 3 hours

Maybe they held until al the holiday traffic departed.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Entirely up to the crew to choose the time of landing however I also wonder if they stayed airborne longer to allow the resources necessary to quickly remove the a/c from the runway to get put in place so that the runway remained blocked for the minimum of time. As stated, there were many arrivals/departures they may not have been possible had the a/c landed at the first opportunity after all fixing attempts were exhausted.

^This^. If what is going to happen is what is going to happen, may as well wait until the best time for it to happen. RWY only closed for about an hour. A couple of Jetstars ended up in Brissie, but others didn't have to.

[puff]

I believe the crew had plenty of gas - were in no trouble and being OOL locals knew the amount of traffic going in and out they would disrupt once they did a wheels up. They seemed to wait until the bulk of all the arrivals and departures had finished, and by the time they did it - only the last 2 JQ domestics and the one from WLG was due to come in. I think in the end only only JQ flight diverted to BNE, the other held and got in after they picked it up and cleared it off the runway. Gave the emergency services plenty of time to get stuff ready as well, and in general less fuel the better I guess in this sort of situation.

I agree if you need to do it, stuff the ramifications, but it holding for another hour or 2 doesn't disrupt the entire industry as much, reduced your weight, why not wait.

[B2N2]

Originally Posted by witwiw

I'm wondering what more could have been done in 3 hours to potentially solve the problem that could not have been done in an hour or so? Getting engineering advice, possibly?

Rip out the rear seat and cut the hydraulic lines for the gear to freefall?
Works on a Pa28R Arrow (allegedly).


* I was once told this story by an individual who was a fresh CPL who let his passenger in a Piper Arrow hold the control wheel as he ripped out the rear seat and murdered the hydraulic lines to get the gear to come down.

Wasn’t me but made for a good story.

[43Inches]

Originally Posted by B2N2

Rip out the rear seat and cut the hydraulic lines for the gear to freefall?
Works on a Pa28R Arrow (allegedly).


* I was once told this story by an individual who was a fresh CPL who let his passenger in a Piper Arrow hold the control wheel as he ripped out the rear seat and murdered the hydraulic lines to get the gear to come down.

Wasn’t me but made for a good story.

Only works if the backup system is a gravity free fall, and it failed. If the system has up locks, an actuator has busted and a myriad of other problems then cutting hydraulic lines will probably just make a big mess. Also this advice won't work in Arrows from the late 70s onward as they moved away from the bench seats over the flap/battery, to single seats attached to a covered floor. I'm not sure even the older bench seated arrows you could access the hyrdaulics, but who knows. Sounds like a stiff talk with whoever did the last gear checks on that old machine, esp the free fall test, is warranted.

[septuganarian]

Originally Posted by 43Inches

Only works if the backup system is a gravity free fall, and it failed. If the system has up locks, an actuator has busted and a myriad of other problems then cutting hydraulic lines will probably just make a big mess. Also this advice won't work in Arrows from the late 70s onward as they moved away from the bench seats over the flap/battery, to single seats attached to a covered floor. I'm not sure even the older bench seated arrows you could access the hyrdaulics, but who knows.

Baron undercarriage system is mechanical with the actuator under the pilot seat!

[43Inches]

Originally Posted by septuganarian

Baron undercarriage system is mechanical with the actuator under the pilot seat!

That it is indeed, so you can cut the hydraulics and get brake fluid all over yourself...

You Tube

[ravan]

Baron gear is electro-mechanical. The motor and gear box are in the spar box behind the front seats.

The electric motor drives a sector gear (about 120 degree sector I think) which is stopped at its up and down limits by limit switches. A Baron that I flew suffered a sector gear failure. The limit switches didn't do their job and the motor kept driving until the sector gear cracked about 3 teeth in from the end. Once the crack spread open a little the motor drive gear could no longer drive the sector gear.

Unfortunately the cracked sector gear means that the emergency system won't work either since the handle you turn manually is supposed to drive the sector gear.

Not saying that this is what happened here, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[B2N2]

Although the story is true my post was more meant in jest than in mechanical accuracy.

[Dora-9]

Technically, the 55 Baron did have the A55, B55, C55, etc as sub variants…

To be really pedantic (who? me?), the variants were 95-A55, 95-B55, 95-C55, 95-D55 and E55 (Beech dropped the "95" suffix commencing with the E55)

Now, a question please - what do we think about turning off the electrics (in the dark) on short finals? Not a criticism, but I've been mulling over this ever since I saw the videos...

[QUOTE][The motor and gear box are in the spar box behind the front seats./QUOTE]
43 inches - a great video thanks. Note that the wing is effectively further forward on the short Barons (as opposed to the 58), so that the gearbox is UNDER the front seats. There was a case in Perth around 1968 where a 95-B55 Baron (VH-CFO I think) was landed with the gear half extended and one of the shafts snapped and punched up through the seats! It's a shame it didn't stab the idiot flying it in the bum; he was aware that he was about to run out of fuel, had an issue when he selected the gear and in his panic failed to complete the emergency gear extension procedure.

[By George]

Yes, I was thinking the same thing and personally would have waited for what Mr Boeing quaintly calls 'ground contact imminent'. Again, not being critical; I wasn't there and other factors might have been in play. Skin damage in wheels up landings tends to be fuselage and nacelles' leaving the wings clear where the fuel is on most light twins. The other consideration is to keep the flaps up, especially on a nice long 45m wide runway. A recent gear-up landing at Redcliff in a Navajo did some surprising damage to the flaps and flap attachment points with great ripples to the upper skin panels.
.

[Dora-9]

Of course you and I have a shared experience of flying along with no electrics/lighting - at least it was in the cruise!

[By George]

Indeed! The definition of darkness is an aeroplane cockpit at night without electrics.

[septuganarian]

Originally Posted by 43Inches

That it is indeed, so you can cut the hydraulics and get brake fluid all over yourself...

https://youtu.be/U7aZ1cyoKU8

The baron/bonanza aircraft are the only retractables where you can remove the undercarriage and place it (all 3 legs) on a bench at the back of the hangar and still get a normal gear up/down lights in the cockpit, untill Beech moved the switches from on top of the actuator out onto the undercarriage leg mechanicals where they belong!

[601]

(all 3 legs) on a bench at the back of the hangar

One would assume that that would be picked up on a pre-flight!

[septuganarian]

Originally Posted by 601

One would assume that that would be picked up on a pre-flight!

Any competent pilot would note during the preflight that the aircraft is on jacks!

[holdingagain]

In other words incompetent pilots won’t notice until they try to taxi. They would then hop out to check the tie downs had been removed

[PiperCameron]

Originally Posted by holdingagain

In other words incompetent pilots won’t notice until they try to taxi. They would then hop out to check the tie downs had been removed

Hopefully remembering to shut down first.

[43Inches]

Originally Posted by holdingagain

In other words incompetent pilots won’t notice until they try to taxi. They would then hop out to check the tie downs had been removed

I watched at a distance a twin revving its guts out three or four times in a parking bay, then rear up like a stallion as it jumped the nose chock. The sudden pitching event finally getting the attention of the instructor and student that it was indeed chocks that was impeding their motion and they shut down to inspect what was going on. Not sure what was happening in the grey matter department on that one, needing close to full power several times to get moving should have twigged something. On another occasion a pre-flight inspection found two broken wing tie down lugs where a previous pilot had taxied off and just let the lugs snap as they went rather than untie before setting off. Lugs, or parts there of were found at the last departure point parking area a few days later.

[Capt Fathom]

Watch what happens here at the end! You have to ask Why Why Why?