Cirrus down Gundaroo, 06/10/23
As I was saying earlier they are a one piece wing, I doubt something happened there, however this is a 2002 model, serial number 157, something could have happened with the tail of the aircraft… there looked to be some dirty clouds around at the time and it didn’t look overly smooth.
65 is not exactly the age you’d expect for a sudden incapacitation, but of course( it could happen to anyone I guess.
Terribly sad.
Last edited by Squawk7700; 6th Oct 2023 at 20:01.
The 65 year old man, who was an experienced pilot, was on board the four-seater Cirrus SR22 with his 11 year old grandson and his two granddaughters who were aged nine and six
65 is not exactly the age you’d expect for a sudden incapacitation, but of course( it could happen to anyone I guess
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Certainly seems like it was in use, then disconnected for whatever reason looking at that profile.
Unknown why the chute wasn’t deployed however. Has been a few Cirrus IMC events however still successfully deployed the chute and lives saved. However it could have been deployed, we don’t know.
Truly tragic event. No words.
It's a bit hard to imagine incapacitation leading to that sort of flight profile unless it was a seizure or something causing a total lockup on the controls. I'd think even with someone slumped over the stick (which doesn't seem very likely with a Cirrus sidestick anyway) the aerodynamic forces involved would eventually shallow the descent out a bit. You would assume he would have shown the kids how to operate the parachute too in case he suddenly keeled over.
Perhaps severe icing, stall and spin, tangling the chute and damaging comms antennas.
Please everyone: Don’t feed the beast with speculation about sudden incapacitation and ‘evil thought’, especially when it’s a nonsensical explanation just on the cockpit ergonomics of a Cirrus and what actually happens if you point most any ‘light’ aircraft straight at the ground. It’s an awful enough outcome without the AvMeds of the world milking it before the smoke’s dissipated. The pilot’s medical history and domestic circumstances will be revealed, eventually.
Please everyone: Don’t feed the beast with speculation about sudden incapacitation and ‘evil thought’, especially when it’s a nonsensical explanation just on the cockpit ergonomics of a Cirrus and what actually happens if you point most any ‘light’ aircraft straight at the ground. It’s an awful enough outcome without the AvMeds of the world milking it before the smoke’s dissipated. The pilot’s medical history and domestic circumstances will be revealed, eventually.
Descent rate under chute is less than 2,000 fpm, forward speed less than 20 knots and time to deploy down to near zero forward speed is less than 10 seconds.
There are only a very limited number of ways that an aircraft can lose that much altitude in that short space of time and pushing the nose forward does not result in the profile shown above.
If it was in a spin for whatever reason it entered, the chute was the only practical solution available. Build date 2002, so in theory it would have just had it’s second 10 year chute re-pack completed, so presumably it was in good operating condition.
There are only a very limited number of ways that an aircraft can lose that much altitude in that short space of time and pushing the nose forward does not result in the profile shown above.
If it was in a spin for whatever reason it entered, the chute was the only practical solution available. Build date 2002, so in theory it would have just had it’s second 10 year chute re-pack completed, so presumably it was in good operating condition.
Last edited by Squawk7700; 6th Oct 2023 at 22:40.
Ice certainly a possibility but if the plane had iced up, was descending uncontrollably, I would have expected the pilot to pull the chute - assuming he was capable of doing so. I don't believe that the pilot would have "forgotten" the chute because when I owned a Cirrus, we always brought CAPS into our decision making process, even when practicing emergencies. And if you're transporting your grandchildren, you'll be even less inclined to take risks, so I believe the pilot was incapacitated, the plane simply stalled whilst iced up.
Unfortunately if the pilot is incapacitated, this meant that most likely a small boy aged 11 was sitting in the front seat, I'm not so sure he could have reached, certainly not have pulled with the force required, the parachute, especially if the aircraft was spinning.....
My thoughts go out to the families.....
Descent rate under chute is less than 2,000 fpm, forward speed less than 20 knots and time to deploy down to near zero forward speed is less than 10 seconds.
There are only a very limited number of ways that an aircraft can lose that much altitude in that short space of time.
There are only a very limited number of ways that an aircraft can lose that much altitude in that short space of time.
On spins or spiral dives, the profile and heading seems to be a turn to the right as it descends, but not in the pattern of a spiral dive for sure and the heading stability would suggest not a spin. And speed wise it looked like it was accelerating to cruise when it suddenly just dived, so it doesn't look like a stall spin scenario, at least at the onset.
Oh I wasn’t disagreeing with you 43, I was just quoting some rough numbers on the chute operation.
Diabolical. Even more so when kids are involved. Will be very interested to hear what the investigation has to say when done. And I hope ATSB do a very through job on it.
RIP those 4. Tragic in the extreme.
RIP those 4. Tragic in the extreme.
Build date 2002, so in theory it would have just had it’s second 10 year chute re-pack completed, so presumably it was in good operating condition.
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This is the only accident I could find that is remotely similar;
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/310048
However it seems once the parachute failed and detached the aircraft then accelerated to very high speed as you would expect from such nose down attitude.
Experienced pilot with hundreds of hours is what is quoted by the media.
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/310048
However it seems once the parachute failed and detached the aircraft then accelerated to very high speed as you would expect from such nose down attitude.
Was the pilot a student perhaps , fresh gfpt on a fun flight , could be trying to have fun around clouds for the kids?