Aerobatics in a taildragger without a tailwheel endorsement
Aerobatics in a taildragger without a tailwheel endorsement
I'm thinking of learning aerobatics - however the school that I was considering over East only uses tail-draggers (Decathlon) to teach the course. I'm not that interested in getting a tailwheel endorsement at this stage as I was trying to save some money.
In that regard though would it be any disadvantage to learn in a tail-dragger without a tail-wheel endorsement? I dont necessarily see myself flying aeros in a tail-dragger in future due to access to aircraft where I am based (I could potentially only get an C150 aerobat sadly) - but my main purpose of learning aeros was to improve stick/rudder skills. I could potentially go to another school which teaches in normal tricycle gear (Robins), but the school i was considering was recommended to me / has a good reputation. The main disadvantage I can see was not being able to go out and practice solo aerobatics here.
In that regard though would it be any disadvantage to learn in a tail-dragger without a tail-wheel endorsement? I dont necessarily see myself flying aeros in a tail-dragger in future due to access to aircraft where I am based (I could potentially only get an C150 aerobat sadly) - but my main purpose of learning aeros was to improve stick/rudder skills. I could potentially go to another school which teaches in normal tricycle gear (Robins), but the school i was considering was recommended to me / has a good reputation. The main disadvantage I can see was not being able to go out and practice solo aerobatics here.
If your main reason for learning aerobatics is to improve your stick and rudder skills, then do it in a taildragger.
Both aerobatics and taildragger flying will exponentially increase your handling skills and expand your envelope. Do both.
Both aerobatics and taildragger flying will exponentially increase your handling skills and expand your envelope. Do both.
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If they are accommodating, they may be able to combine the two fairly economically. Unfortunately (or some might say fortunately), many aerobatic aircraft are tailwheel.
If you are trying to save money, then by all means forgo the circuit training necessary to obtain a tailwheel endorsement. However, I suspect once you get used to flying a stick-and-rudder aircraft, you may want to learn to land it and as Double Asymmetric mentioned, you have access to many more interesting aircraft.
Here's my current "ride". Not aerobatic but a lot of fun!
Here's my current "ride". Not aerobatic but a lot of fun!
…. In that regard though would it be any disadvantage to learn in a tail-dragger without a tail-wheel endorsement? …. (I could potentially only get an C150 aerobat sadly) …. The main disadvantage I can see was not being able to go out and practice solo aerobatics here.
I know someone who learnt in a Decathlon and swore that the Cessna was incapable of some manoeuvres - nope, just that the technique he used in the Decathlon wasn’t appropriate for the Cessna. So, be prepared for a dual aerobatic check in the Cessna before you take it solo - especially spins as the behaviour and recovery technique is different.
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A long time ago, I got my first taste of aerobatics from Duane Cole (clipped wing Taylorcraft)
who actually was hired by me and the 5 or so guys I was in a club with to check us out in a P35 Bonanza we had just upgraded to.
I already had a tailwheel endorsement from the University of Illinois institute of aviation, in an Aeronca, however the couple of hours Mr. Cole was kind enough to spend with me in his plane after the Bonanza checkout (which he didn’t charge me for, as I recall) taught me more about flying than the few hundred hrs I had by then.
I subsequently ended up in Minneapolis, where there was an FBO at Anoka, that had a 150 Aerobatic which they rented for (I think) $35/hr wet, with a parachute. Slow as dirt, but snapped well, and was a great way to learn energy management.
Unfortunately, one of their instructors flew it into his girlfriend’s house showing off, and killed himself (as well as the plane).
Taildraggers teach one what a rudder is for. I cannot recommend learning to fly one highly enough.
who actually was hired by me and the 5 or so guys I was in a club with to check us out in a P35 Bonanza we had just upgraded to.
I already had a tailwheel endorsement from the University of Illinois institute of aviation, in an Aeronca, however the couple of hours Mr. Cole was kind enough to spend with me in his plane after the Bonanza checkout (which he didn’t charge me for, as I recall) taught me more about flying than the few hundred hrs I had by then.
I subsequently ended up in Minneapolis, where there was an FBO at Anoka, that had a 150 Aerobatic which they rented for (I think) $35/hr wet, with a parachute. Slow as dirt, but snapped well, and was a great way to learn energy management.
Unfortunately, one of their instructors flew it into his girlfriend’s house showing off, and killed himself (as well as the plane).
Taildraggers teach one what a rudder is for. I cannot recommend learning to fly one highly enough.
Last edited by 421dog; 13th Jan 2023 at 07:17.
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I know someone who learnt in a Decathlon and swore that the Cessna was incapable of some manoeuvres...
So - no tail slides, whip stalls, stall turns, extended negative g (i.e. slow rolls) etc etc ....
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Here's my mate, Phill Hooker, showing what the Aerobat is capable of. I saw him do a display like this which ended with an engine-off landing.
The Cessna was certified to CAR 3 which states "Acrobatic—Suffix "A". Airplanes in this category will have no specific restrictions as to type of maneuver permitted unless the necessity therefor is disclosed by the required flight tests." Yep, so no whip stalls and no continuous inverted flight. If anything is not specifically restricted then it can be done by an airplane in acrobatic category (within the other stated limitations). I'm familiar with Kershner's text on hammerheads in his book as I am with his description of other maneuvers in the Aerobat which are not included in the list of recommended entry speeds for approved maneuvers per CAR "3.108-A Acrobatic maneuvers. It shall be demonstrated that acrobatic maneuvers can be performed readily and safely. Safe entry speeds shall be determined for these maneuvers." Interesting discussion for the Cessna wrt hammerheads etc vs the manoeuvres done in that video posted here.
Stall turns? Although entry speed seems a bit slow to me.
you can’t beat sailplane aerobatics especially if you fly something that can tail slide and flick roll..
you can’t beat sailplane aerobatics especially if you fly something that can tail slide and flick roll..
What the hell is a "Vertical reversement"??
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