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# Running out of rego’s

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# Running out of rego’s

4th Jun 2022, 07:27

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Originally Posted by Arm out the window
Perhaps I'm confused (happens a fair bit to be honest) but am I the only one thinking that one number and two letters will give you even less callsigns than three letters, there being 26 letters in the alphabet and only 8 available digits (not counting 1 or 0 as mentioned above)?

Ahhh... disregard, I see now that they can come in any order, so there's heaps more permutations - or is that combinations?
If I've done the maths right (always debatable), allowing one numeral in any position and excluding 1 or 0 will give an extra 5,408 combinations (22,984 total, made up of 34x26x26) compared to the current 17,576 possible now.
4th Jun 2022, 09:24

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My mathematics are thus
Original format allowed for 26x26x26 = 17576
The new format allows for 26*26*8*3 = 16224

The total number of VH combinations is then 33800
4th Jun 2022, 11:35

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Do we really have numbers of aircraft on the Oz register approaching 17,576??
I'm aware of the need to avoid immediate4 reissue of rego marks handed in but really???
4th Jun 2022, 11:51

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Seems there are quite a few drones that have picked up VH- regos of late. Why can’t they be in a block of their own and leave some traditional rego’s to more conventional aircraft? After all, the gliders had a lot in the G block for many years. Drones could be VH-D2A etc.... I’m sure there would be others?
5th Jun 2022, 00:26

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Originally Posted by chuboy
My mathematics are thus
Original format allowed for 26x26x26 = 17576
The new format allows for 26*26*8*3 = 16224

The total number of VH combinations is then 33800
I can't see where you're getting the *3 multiplier from? I can understand the *8 but think you're mistaken in its' application, as such a formula could be re-written as 26*26*24. Given they aren't mandating everyone change from the current VH-AAA to VH-AAA/N, rather they are adding an extra 8 possible figures in one column, I think it should be calculated as 26*26*34 - as it doesn't matter where the numeral is inserted, the *34 can be used anywhere in the formula.

Always happy to be proven wrong of course - then I'll have learnt something.

Originally Posted by mustafagander
Do we really have numbers of aircraft on the Oz register approaching 17,576??
Someone with enough time on their hands could probably download the register into Excel and play around with it to work out how many registered aircraft there are compared to registrations. They could also workout the most populous type on the register for any nerds among us...
5th Jun 2022, 01:42

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I'd do something like this

5th Jun 2022, 07:19

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Not hard to find current numbers. 16040 registered currently 33 marks available. See CASA website
5th Jun 2022, 09:22

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Why on Earth are drones given VH registration?

Seems a return to some understanding of basic principles might help. VH and other country prefixes, and their corresponding registries, exist primarily to show evidence of nationality of aircraft flying internationally. Since when do ‘Australian’ drones fly internationally?

6th Jun 2022, 01:40

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Originally Posted by KRviator
. Given they aren't mandating everyone change from the current VH-AAA to VH-AAA/N, rather they are adding an extra 8 possible figures in one column, I think it should be calculated as 26*26*34 - as it doesn't matter where the numeral is inserted, the *34 can be used anywhere in the formula.
But it does matter where the numeral is inserted. VH-2AA is not the same as VH-AA2. So in addition to the existing VH-AAA to VH-ZZZ, you also have 26*26*8 for VH-AA2 to VH-ZZ9, and the same again twice over when you move the numeral into a different position. So 26*26*8*3. As you have pointed out, this is numerically equivalent to 26*26*24, i.e. the same as if CASA were to create a new run of letter-only registrations from VI-AAA to VI-XZZ.
6th Jun 2022, 01:44

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Since when do ‘Australian’ drones fly internationally?
If I had to wager, an Aussie drone could fly internationally if its owner brought it overseas and flew it there

As for why they need registration in the first place well I suppose that is CASA's decision to make. I can see an argument for it as it helps to identify drones that are ostensibly operated by people who should know the rules about where they should be flown. I don't believe they are given a VH registration though?
6th Jun 2022, 01:58

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I see. So you think that an Australian citizen who happens to be in the USA and buys a drone to fly while in the USA will be applying for and granted VH registration for that drone by CASA?

As to your second point, there are many aircraft flying around in Australia without VH registration. Have you heard of RAAus, for example? CASA seems to think there’s no ‘regulatory risk’ in those aircraft not being on the VH register.
2nd Oct 2022, 09:18

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Originally Posted by Squawk7700
So apparently there are well less than 100 GA rego combinations left, reducing at a rate of over 10 per week.

What happens next???
Since when is VH-XXX exclusively a 'GA registration'. Last time I looked, Part 135, 138, 121, etc. operators used the same registrations.
2nd Oct 2022, 09:23

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Originally Posted by chimbu warrior
I vaguely recall a proposal some years ago (maybe mid-90's) to change the Australian prefix from VH- to V-.

The Canadians did this 40-odd years ago, and changed from CF- to C-, thus freeing up thousands of new possibilities.

As I see it, starting a VI- prefix would only cause confusion; what if VH-ABC and VI-ABC are on the same frequency at the same time?
What is so damn sacred about VH, it was just an arbitrary code allocated by the British on our behalf when they were still running half the show, even though we were allegedly an 'independent' Commonwealth. Just adopt A-XXXX and be done with it. Allow combinations of alpha-numerics. If the world was serious, the registration marks should be the ISO code for the country, followed by whatever combination of letters and numbers you want - e.g. Australia would become "AU-XXXX" or "AU-1X1X", etc. etc. and be done with it. The US would become "US------:.
2nd Oct 2022, 09:30

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Originally Posted by Squawk7700
Lots of software will need to be updated.
Not necessarily on the airline side. Even the old DCS that Qantas and most of the world's airlines used (and the new Amadeus Suite is much more flexible) would take any registration combination you entered. We could have gone into the system and changed all of the QF regos to AU-OJA, AU-OJB, VHOJA, VH-OJA or whatever. The only requirement the system had was that if you selected an aircraft type under a Qantas flight, the registration would have to match how the registration was entered in the table of registrations. This was sometimes confusing as Load Controllers would go from one BA type system to another and some operators would leave the hyphen out in between - e.g. ZK-NCN would be set up as ZKNCN (not saying NZ did this, just as an example).

It was set up like this for a very good reason, like when Qantas wet-leased that 747-123 that still had a US registration and with PH-MCF.

Don't know about non airline software.
2nd Oct 2022, 09:36

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Originally Posted by FullOppositeRudder
With quite a lot of commercial flight operations using the airline flight numbers these days for radio comms, the problems may be more likely administrative rather than operational.

Adding another letter on the end of the existing three letter suffix seems a reasonable solution. The British and the French operate thusly - and have done so for years - so any potential issues there would seem to have been resolved to the satisfaction of all parties. Where ops require aircraft identification by rego rather than flight number (or military designation), more precise radio procedures may be required, and everyone needs to be alert for the possibility of potential errors, but surely we are up to that. The expansion of data base requirements at all levels to fit the extra character needed could be something of a challenge, but we came through Y2K pretty well unscathed. In any event - we already have RAAus aircraft in the operational mix using the 2+4 numerical combinations, so changes in the mainstream aviation system should be quite workable if and when they become essential.

Finally, from what read, I think ICAO may well need to be involved in any change anyway.
I think the database concerned are invalid. Even going back to the 70s, airline departure control systems could put in any registration format you wanted. The registration in the table of registrations for each carrier/aircraft type (as for example QF handled a lot of carriers in it's DCS) could be input however one wanted to - e.g. VHEBA, VH-EBA, etc. etc. the only requirement being when inputting the registration on a flight set up as a 747-238B, one would have to enter the registration precisely as it appeared in the table for that airline/type. If there was a change, for example, dropping or moving the hyphen, then updating those records would be about 10 minutes work and from an airport perspective, would only require the controller of the flight to change the registration. In fact, the way it'd probably be done is to set up additional registrations in the new format, get each flight controller to update the registration, then remove the old formatted regos. I assume other systems would be similar, ATC for instance as they already have to cope with an almost infinite number of combinations.
4th Oct 2022, 07:21

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1500 new alphanumeric rego marks released. https://services.casa.gov.au/CSV/availablemarks.pdf
4th Oct 2022, 22:14

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Got as far as 82I and 82O. Might get away with radio calls but what about when painted on side of aircraft?
5th Oct 2022, 06:07

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'ate VW sounds fun
5th Oct 2022, 06:25

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Why on Earth are drones given VH registration?

Seems a return to some understanding of basic principles might help. VH and other country prefixes, and their corresponding registries, exist primarily to show evidence of nationality of aircraft flying internationally. Since when do ‘Australian’ drones fly internationally?
That's right LB and I believe there is allowance in the rules to omit the VH from the registration mark on an aircraft that is to be used entirely within the territory of the Commonwealth. Most include it anyway.
5th Oct 2022, 06:26

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