Pel Air to run NSW Air Ambulance

[poohead]

Originally Posted by Mr Proach

If the ambulance commissioner, management underlings and the responsible minister had even the slight shred of moral, ethical and human decency then they should all take an equivalent reduction in their salary and conditions.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

Don’t forget he stiffed all his underlings in 2020 and 2021 when he was happy to take his, (and other upper management) pay rises while the worker bees had their promised 2.5% cut whilst he keeps sending out emails saying how much the workload has increased... or so I’ve heard🤪

[mustafagander]

Hi Stationair,
Are you sure that the Pearl guys lost their long service leave entitlements when RFDS took over? As far as I know LSL is a government mandated entitlement which is paid out or credited to an employee when there is a change of ownership of a company. As for sick leave there is a mandatory minimum far below what almost every company offers so it figures that accrued sick leave is lost.

[43Inches]

Are you sure that the Pearl guys lost their long service leave entitlements when RFDS took over?

Taking over a contract is not taking over a business, the new company slides in and pushes the old company out. The existing staff may be offered transitional positions but on new contracts in a new workplace. The company they work for would be required to pay out any existing entitlements as severance pay when they leave, that is if the existing company remains viable and does not slip into insolvency, then the staff get what they can. Pearl would owe entitlements to the workers, however the RFDS would owe them nothing until the start of contract date, at which time everything resets, unless of course part of the tender included a continuance of existing entitlements.

[lucille]

In the US, most aeromedical contracts are run by bottom feeder organisations where belt tightening is the company mantra. They are cost conscious to the extreme.
It’s no surprise that model would have found it’s way over here sooner or later. I remember the halcyon days when aeromedical flying allowed one to support a family of four and eat three meals a day. Something, by the way, the average GA driver could not do.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

I remember the halcyon days when aeromedical flying allowed one to support a family of four and eat three meals a day.

Flogging around in a C402 with a stretcher in the back. Now they want "hospitals in the sky" in high performance turbo props. Guess where the money gets saved.

[ACMS]

Quite right fellas, my comment has nothing to do with pay, I thought you were referring to quality of Pilots in the ranks, I should have read just a little more carefully…….

[Mr Proach]

Originally Posted by 43Inches

Taking over a contract is not taking over a business, the new company slides in and pushes the old company out. The existing staff may be offered transitional positions but on new contracts in a new workplace.

This is how the pilot workforce suffer a reduction in pay and conditions. Companies bidding for this type of contract work should compete against each other based on their management ability. There is nothing clever about submitting a tender based on paying lower wages and reduced conditions of employment. Ideally there should an award to cover aeromedical operations so regardless of whether company X or Y win a contract, pilots' pay and conditions won't be adversely affected (just as it is for the government counterparts).

[TBM-Legend]

Originally Posted by Mr Proach

This is how the pilot workforce suffer a reduction in pay and conditions. Companies bidding for this type of contract work should compete against each other based on their management ability. There is nothing clever about submitting a tender based on paying lower wages and reduced conditions of employment. Ideally there should an award to cover aeromedical operations so regardless of whether company X or Y win a contract, pilots' pay and conditions won't be adversely affected (just as it is for the government counterparts).

A very socialist idea. I guess it fits the current thinking that Russia set the standards for everyone earning the same no matter what you bring to the table except of course the oligarch reap the rewards..

[43Inches]

There is an award, but like most of the higher end work like Airlines it's way below what the current pay rates are. Awards are always safety nets, actual salaries are fought for by the workforce, however awards are also difficult to deal with for companies as they have some clauses that don't favor flexibility so it is both parties interest to negotiate. RFDS had built up a set of remuneration based on a lack of pilots and needing to retain in the expensive urban environment of Sydney. Whoever takes over can choose to continue such pay rates, or just change it and accept losses if that occurs. Anyone who works on limited contracts and tender work should only be budgeting for the time that contract exists. And yes a big part of tendered contracts is to keep wages and conditions low for specialist work, which otherwise would blow out if directly employed by the government. The only real counter to this is scope clauses that limit what contracted agencies can do so they can't white ant other businesses with terms and conditions.

In Australia you are not forced to work anywhere you do not want to, you are free to leave at any time or not accept a contract for any reason. However you are not entitled to beach front property in Coogee or property anywhere as a pilot or any other worker. 5 million others in Sydney make do on things as low paid as cleaning toilets or working supermarket shifts. I'm not saying pilots should get paid that low, I'm saying you have to set the bar for what you accept, because no one else really cares. If what is paid is acceptable, that's it, if not don't do it.

[morno]

When airlines start recruiting again, Pel Air will struggle to get the right pilots with the right experience levels with the pay they are offering.

To see aeromed in this country going down the path it is with Pel Air is quite disappointing. Aeromed shouldn’t be the cheapest contractor, it should be the one with the best experience and proven ability.

[pcx]

Quite a few posters are claiming that Pelair are paying less than the RFDS. I don't doubt this is true.

Can anyone post an approximate comparison If you do please post verifiable figures, not the Townsville refueler told me.

[morno]

Originally Posted by pcx

Quite a few posters are claiming that Pelair are paying less than the RFDS. I don't doubt this is true.

Can anyone post an approximate comparison If you do please post verifiable figures, not the Townsville refueler told me.

The best I’ve been made aware of was simply the award

[havick]

Originally Posted by morno

When airlines start recruiting again, Pel Air will struggle to get the right pilots with the right experience levels with the pay they are offering.

To see aeromed in this country going down the path it is with Pel Air is quite disappointing. Aeromed shouldn’t be the cheapest contractor, it should be the one with the best experience and proven ability.

Honest question, at what point do pilots (including check and training pilots etc) get recycled at RFDS to the point that really any corporate knowledge/experience is much different to Pelair at this point?

I’ve seen the same thing amongst helicopter EMS operators. People come and go, and what was the new player 7-10 years ago is now really no different with experience level to the guys that have been around 20-30+ years.

[Mr Proach]

Originally Posted by TBM-Legend

A very socialist idea. I guess it fits the current thinking that Russia set the standards for everyone earning the same no matter what you bring to the table except of course the oligarch reap the rewards..

I am not advocating equal pay for all regardless of your qualifications responsibilities. I mean if you have an award for a specific job then company Y and X have the same minimum labour cost base. If they're innovative and efficient mangers and can offer better pay and conditions, that's a bonus. I am not referring to an award determined by the "state" rather one that is negotiated by pilot representative groups. There is a general award to cover pilots however, it is horrendously inadequate in many areas.

[Mr Proach]

Originally Posted by havick

Honest question, at what point do pilots (including check and training pilots etc) get recycled at RFDS to the point that really any corporate knowledge/experience is much different to PelAir at this point?
I’ve seen the same thing amongst helicopter EMS operators. People come and go, and what was the new player 7-10 years ago is now really no different with experience level to the guys that have been around 20-30+ years.

The RFDS has an attrition rate of pilots, more so in the couple of years prior to COVID. However the gap between the pay and conditions between a RFDS pilot and a PelAIr pilot doing the same job is very significant. If you were to sample the number of pilots that have a long service record with PelAir (AirMed) I believe it will be majorly less than those with the RFDS. COVID has altered this situation due to mass unemployment across the industry. In response to your question, I estimate about 5% of RFDS pilots would have migrated to PelAir and that was more likely due to personal circumstances (family, age etc). In better times maybe even less. So nothwitstanding any more viruses or equivalent events, in about two years from now, I anticipate the average experience of a PelAir pilot based in SYD on the air ambulance service will be between two & four years.
Someone who was in the government involved with assessing tenders once mentioned, the assessors look at the first page (for name and spelling etc) scurry through the "waffle" (aka the all important responses to the critical questions about quality and provision of service) and then look for the price.

[Mr Proach]

Havick, for clarification the majority of those with 20-30 years AirMed experience will be with the RFDS and many of those if not all, will only have worked for the RFDS. Re the migration of 5% from the RFDS I mean from all of the their operations (not just those previously employed on the NSW air ambulance contract) that number might be around 20%. Reference the average experience in about two years (2-4years experience), I wouldn't expect much change to that thereafter. (assuming pay and conditions don't change)

[drpixie]

Originally Posted by Mr Proach

number of pilots that have a long service record with PelAir (AirMed).

To avoid confusion here, AirMed is not associated with Pelair - completely different companies, completely different operations, very different ethos, no relationship between them.

[lucille]

It’s an unfortunate part of the cycle that we are in, there are too many unemployed ATPL holders out there, employers know this. It’s been like this before and it will be like this again.

I often ask myself what drives us to work in such an unstable industry, always at the mercy of one disaster or other.

[galdian]

Originally Posted by lucille

It’s an unfortunate part of the cycle that we are in, there are too many unemployed ATPL holders out there, employers know this. It’s been like this before and it will be like this again.

I often ask myself what drives us to work in such an unstable industry, always at the mercy of one disaster or other.

Because on those days - in my case - when you can depart Haneda and overfly Mt Fiji in wintertime - it was impressive.
Or when I'm flying up the east coast BN-CS and parallel a line of active TS for 50nm - it was impressive.
The fact that 60K ton of material (737) can get off the earth - I can sort of explain the physics! - is always impressive, when an A380/B747 does it it's still magic.

I've been fortunate to go to an office that has interested me for my working career - certainly better remunerated in the airline days - but the GA days held their own charm.
Cheers.

[Trojan1981]

Originally Posted by lucille

In the US, most aeromedical contracts are run by bottom feeder organisations where belt tightening is the company mantra. They are cost conscious to the extreme.
It’s no surprise that model would have found it’s way over here sooner or later. I remember the halcyon days when aeromedical flying allowed one to support a family of four and eat three meals a day. Something, by the way, the average GA driver could not do.

Very true, and the accident rate for aeromedical operators is extraordinarily high. At one point HEMS crew was the #1 most dangerous job in the USA. Will Australia go the same way? When you can ditch an aeromedical jet in the Pacific then pick up a state aeromedical contract only two years later, that suggests it will. A race to the bottom for conditions will produce the same result here. Ambulance NSW will have to wear the disruption associated with crew churn, unservicabilies and safety issues. The USA has a pilot shortage at this level for very good reason.