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Pilatus PC-24 Jet - happy customers?

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Pilatus PC-24 Jet - happy customers?

Old 24th Aug 2020, 23:56
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Pilatus PC-24 Jet - happy customers?

The August 2020 issue of BCA magazine has conducted their first Customer survey report on the PC-24 Jet. Many issues suggest;
Windscreens cracking on a regular basis even after being changed.
Fuel imbalance when using the single point refuelling.
Incorrect quantity of fuel being loaded due software issues.
Avionics and cockpit cooling issues on a hot day.

Any pilot or operator feedback?
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 06:45
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Be interesting to know just how many unimproved strip Ops they are actually doing?
Pilatus has a good sales pitch but in reality the 24 is very limited!
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 11:06
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Originally Posted by machtuk View Post
Be interesting to know just how many unimproved strip Ops they are actually doing?
Pilatus has a good sales pitch but in reality the 24 is very limited!
In Australia, Iím going to go out on a limb and say none to may as well be none. Iím not sure what category RFDS Central and Western Ops run theirs in (aerial work? Charter?), but if itís charter, they wonít be going in and out of ďunimproved stripsĒ.
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 12:36
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They operate under aerial work even though they would have charter on their AOC.
with that medical fit out there wouldn't be a lot left over for fuel to get the range needed in WA.
Its flash looking but that's about all!
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 21:24
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Originally Posted by Office Update View Post
The August 2020 issue of BCA magazine has conducted their first Customer survey report on the PC-24 Jet. Many issues suggest;
Windscreens cracking on a regular basis even after being changed.
Fuel imbalance when using the single point refuelling.
Incorrect quantity of fuel being loaded due software issues.
Avionics and cockpit cooling issues on a hot day.

Any pilot or operator feedback?
Sound like fairly "normal" new aircraft type issues which get ironed out with time in service.
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 22:25
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swh, do you honestly believe a windscreen cracking in a pressurised aircraft capable of flying at 45,000 is "normal" for a new aircraft ?
As a previous post suggests, slick advertising.
Initial launch/new type customer discounts can lead to flawed decision making.
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 02:36
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Ours regularly flies between Darwin and Adelaide, so range is not bad for what is after all a single-pilot light jet.
The windscreen thing is a known issue but we have had no trouble with ours.
I’ve never had a fuel imbalance after using the single-point refuelling, nor the incorrect amount loaded.
The system is, however, quite fussy and if you are in a rush and don’t let it “complete” properly I can see how that may be possible. But I call that operator error, not a fault with the aircraft.
We haven’t had any issues with avionics / cockpit cooling. The environmental system is far more effective than in the PC-12.
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 04:43
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Originally Posted by rcoight View Post
Ours regularly flies between Darwin and Adelaide, so range is not bad for what is after all a single-pilot light jet.
The windscreen thing is a known issue but we have had no trouble with ours.
Iíve never had a fuel imbalance after using the single-point refuelling, nor the incorrect amount loaded.
The system is, however, quite fussy and if you are in a rush and donít let it ďcompleteĒ properly I can see how that may be possible. But I call that operator error, not a fault with the aircraft.
We havenít had any issues with avionics / cockpit cooling. The environmental system is far more effective than in the PC-12.
Whatís the average TAS/Mach No. rcoight?

My prediction is like anything Pilates, the first model is a bit rough, but they refine them over time and they end up being a pretty bloody good machine. At least thatís what I noticed with the PC-12
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 05:39
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Shhh rcoight don't let the facts get in the way of others' agenda.

@machtuk
Its flash looking but that's about all!
You've clearly never compared levels of certification standards (read crashworthiness) between it and others in the market space (e.g. B350) have you?
Or detailed performance analyses on specific runways?

Last edited by compressor stall; 26th Aug 2020 at 06:10.
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 06:50
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
What’s the average TAS/Mach No. rcoight?

My prediction is like anything Pilates, the first model is a bit rough, but they refine them over time and they end up being a pretty bloody good machine. At least that’s what I noticed with the PC-12
We don't push ours much at all in the cruise, so almost always use 0.70 or 0.71, which usually gives a TAS between 405 and 420kt.
The aircraft is quite capable of doing 0.74 (which is the MMO) at all altitudes, but you'd never really use it, as if it accidentally went to 0.741 before the auto-throttles caught it it would record an overspeed.
I agree it's never wise to buy the first of any type (whether it be cars or aircraft, I don't know why people want to be first). There will always be some bugs that need ironing out.

Overall I think it's a very fine aircraft and will only get better as they make more.
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 06:57
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Originally Posted by Petropavlovsk View Post
swh, do you honestly believe a windscreen cracking in a pressurised aircraft capable of flying at 45,000 is "normal" for a new aircraft ?
RAAF and Cobham don't mind changing a few windcreens on the Challengers.
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 07:17
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Originally Posted by Petropavlovsk View Post
swh, do you honestly believe a windscreen cracking in a pressurised aircraft capable of flying at 45,000 is "normal" for a new aircraft ?
Global express are still cracking windscreens after 20 years
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 07:34
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Pilatus! How bad could it be?
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 09:33
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Originally Posted by rcoight View Post
We don't push ours much at all in the cruise, so almost always use 0.70 or 0.71, which usually gives a TAS between 405 and 420kt.
The aircraft is quite capable of doing 0.74 (which is the MMO) at all altitudes, but you'd never really use it, as if it accidentally went to 0.741 before the auto-throttles caught it it would record an overspeed.
I agree it's never wise to buy the first of any type (whether it be cars or aircraft, I don't know why people want to be first). There will always be some bugs that need ironing out.

Overall I think it's a very fine aircraft and will only get better as they make more.
Good to hear. As you say Iím sure theyíll get better as they make more.

With regards to the speed, I know in the Airbus, we normally sit around Mach 0.78-0.79. MMO is 0.82. Obviously Iíve never flown the PC-24, but I reckon you could easily sit closer to MMO with no problem on your average day. Jets arenít really that efficient sitting too far below Mmo normally.

Good luck with it. Hopefully RFDS sees more of them in the future around the country.
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 09:43
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To get that range DN-AD with any sort of payload I imagine LRC would be needed. 0.70 is pretty slow for a modern day designed jet.
Be interesting to see if the 24 is able to do that route with a 80kts H/W and an Alt at either destination.
Ive done that route many times in a 0.80 machine, anything slower would be painful!
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 09:55
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
Good to hear. As you say Iím sure theyíll get better as they make more.

With regards to the speed, I know in the Airbus, we normally sit around Mach 0.78-0.79. MMO is 0.82. Obviously Iíve never flown the PC-24, but I reckon you could easily sit closer to MMO with no problem on your average day. Jets arenít really that efficient sitting too far below Mmo normally.

Good luck with it. Hopefully RFDS sees more of them in the future around the country.
Cheers, morno. It's a fantastic machine and represents a huge step up from the PC12 / B200 in terms of performance and patient / crew comfort.
As it's a totally new type and our first jet we are being conservative with the way we use it (quite rightly in my view).
M0.70 or 0.71 is very efficient, especially at FL450.
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 10:02
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Originally Posted by machtuk View Post
To get that range DN-AD with any sort of payload I imagine LRC would be needed. 0.70 is pretty slow for a modern day designed jet.
Be interesting to see if the 24 is able to do that route with a 80kts H/W and an Alt at either destination.
Ive done that route many times in a 0.80 machine, anything slower would be painful!
M0.70 works fine DN-AD most of the time. Of course if there's a strong headwind / alt requirements, or we have a particularly heavy load we stop at YBAS.
Hardly a big deal. We have also done DN-ML more than once. Not too shabby.
You should remember we are talking about a single-pilot aircraft with a large cabin and incredible field performance.
All aircraft are a compromise in many ways.
The -24 trades ultimate speed and range for cabin size and field performance (including unimproved airstrips) and also has that huge rear door.
Compared to the palava trying to wedge patients into other jets, it's heaven.
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 10:07
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Originally Posted by rcoight View Post
M0.70 works fine DN-AD most of the time. Of course if there's a strong headwind / alt requirements, or we have a particularly heavy load we stop at YBAS.
Hardly a big deal. We have also done DN-ML more than once. Not too shabby.
You should remember we are talking about a single-pilot aircraft with a large cabin and incredible field performance.
All aircraft are a compromise in many ways.
The -24 trades ultimate speed and range for cabin size and field performance (including unimproved airstrips) and also has that huge rear door.
Compared to the palava trying to wedge patients into other jets, it's heaven.
The 24 sure does have advantages over the faster jets. Can you get to 45K in ISA+25? As you know that's where the fuel saving is. Do your current Ops allow for Single Pilot Ops?
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 11:12
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Originally Posted by machtuk View Post
The 24 sure does have advantages over the faster jets. Can you get to 45K in ISA+25? As you know that's where the fuel saving is. Do your current Ops allow for Single Pilot Ops?
Every time I fly it I'm on my own up the front, unless it's a check flight.
I've taken off from Darwin at MTOW and climbed direct to FL450. It's fine.
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 11:50
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Originally Posted by rcoight View Post
Every time I fly it I'm on my own up the front, unless it's a check flight.
I've taken off from Darwin at MTOW and climbed direct to FL450. It's fine.
Wondering what fuel burn and tas you would be getting at Fl450. no step climb is a good effort.
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