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Large aircraft to private strips

Old 12th Jun 2020, 04:22
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Large aircraft to private strips

How can an aircraft of greater than 5700kg operate IFR into a dirt strip without instrument approaches, when by definition an "adequate aerodrome" requires at least 1 authorised approach and meteorological forecasts.?
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 05:01
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Grizzly,

Why are you concerned with "adequate" aerodromes? Yes you need an adequate aerodrome available within 60min if your not EDTO authorised but the destination doesn't need to be adequate.? You clearly need an alternate though. CAO 82.5 describes some limitations for AOC holders of high capacity ops. If the operation was at night then an instrument approach is required but not by day. Also if a turbo jet (probably not likely if the strip is gravel) you need PAPI or other electronic vertical guidance. I don't think Low Capacity RPT (CAO 82.3) requires instrument approaches available for night ops. Anyway what aircraft and type of operation are you talking about?
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 12:48
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AWK Ops such as Air Ambo's proceed VFR (if possible)into such dromes without App's
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 00:36
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The purpose of the Instrument approach requirement is about obstacle clearance data to provide a circling area and approach path (splays) which does not exist at those aerodromes without an approach. Not so much about navigation. A good time to reiterate, simply because the NGT VFR rules say descent below LSALT within 3 miles, does not necessarily mean it is safe to do so with respect to obstacle clearance.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 01:49
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Originally Posted by machtuk View Post
AWK Ops such as Air Ambo's proceed VFR (if possible)into such dromes without App's
This is definitely NOT true.

Generally you will need a Flight Manual supplement with dirt field Ops approved, you need the company Operations Manual to explain and approve such operations and you would not operate into these places without a suitable alternate aerodrome.

Good topic though
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 03:25
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Originally Posted by machtuk View Post
AWK Ops such as Air Ambo's proceed VFR (if possible)into such dromes without App's
Maybe you mean fly in VMC under the IFR?

Last edited by compressor stall; 13th Jun 2020 at 04:28.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 03:37
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What 5,700kg + aircraft are we talking about? (Plenty of RFDS aircraft go into and out of strips without instrument approaches but, as far as I am aware, PC12s and Kingairs are not 5,700kg + aircraft.)
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 04:28
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
What 5,700kg + aircraft are we talking about? (Plenty of RFDS aircraft go into and out of strips without instrument approaches but, as far as I am aware, PC12s and Kingairs are not 5,700kg + aircraft.)
B350s are >5700
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 06:00
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Thanks cs. I’ve learnt something. Do any of the RFDSs operate them?
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 07:01
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Kingairs are not 5,700kg + aircraft
The 200 can be if the relevant STC is incorporated, raises the maximum take-off weight from 12,500 to 13,420. Some Oz operators have incorporated the STC and fly single pilot in the EMS role.

King Air Maximum Aircraft Take-Off Gross Weight Increase
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 07:18
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
Thanks cs. Iíve learnt something. Do any of the RFDSs operate them?
RFDS in QLD and NSW operate B350ís. Of course WA and Central Operations have PC24ís which are over 5700kg
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 08:16
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Originally Posted by Douche View Post
This is definitely NOT true.

Generally you will need a Flight Manual supplement with dirt field Ops approved, you need the company Operations Manual to explain and approve such operations and you would not operate into these places without a suitable alternate aerodrome.

Good topic though
Did it for 10 years, all us pilots must have broken the rules (yr rules) thousands of times!
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 08:33
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Thanks for all those who educated me on the 5,700kg + aircraft that engage in ‘flying doctor’-type operations. I suppose that means the OP’s question remains unanswered...
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 09:04
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the Packers' jets into Newcastle Waters...?
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 09:25
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Originally Posted by Goat Whisperer View Post
the Packers' jets into Newcastle Waters...?
Probably not. James Packer sold the property to private equity about ten years ago.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 09:42
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Lead Balloon, This is because the OP's question is not clear, what does an adequate have to do with dirt strips
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 10:04
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OK. Forget “dirt strips”.

Walk me through how a 5,700kg + aircraft engaged in ‘commercial’ operations - e.g. aerial work - is legally able to land somewhere that does not have an instrument approach.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 10:29
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There never has been a requirement. There are additional requirements for example an alternate, for different classes of operation. Are you going down the path of surveyed obstacle clearance gradients data for high capacity operations (guaranteed one engine out performance) at an aerodrome with no approach procedure.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 10:49
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So Grizzly has his answer.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 11:40
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Walk me through how a 5,700kg + aircraft engaged in ‘commercial’ operations - e.g. aerial work - is legally able to land somewhere that does not have an instrument approach.
No problems, as long as it’s daytime.

ENR 1.4
A flight operating under the IFR by day may be planned to a non- instrument procedure destination provided that the aircraft can be navigated in accordance with ENR 1.1 Section 4.1
ENR 1.5
An aeroplane with a MTOW greater than 5,700KG operating under IFR by night may only be planned to a destination which has an approved instrument approach procedure for which the aircraft is appropriately equipped and the pilot is qualified.
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