Mooney 2POB missing west of Coffs Harbour
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No, really i have had about 5 or 6 now and its a breeze...
They just ask for the stuff you need to have before flying, eg, min legal reguirements and your set to go and enjoy your day. I even had one give me a hand to tie down !
The first ramp checks I had I felt aggressive and targeted but it was not necessary.
Now, it is an opportunity for a 15 minute chat, a few free handouts which I then distribute around the club when I get back and CASA get to do what they really want. They can go back to the office on Monday saying we did 20 ramp checks and everything was good.
As much as we think otherwise I don't really believe they want to go into the office on Monday saying we did 20 ramp checks and 18 failed.
I think they would much rather go in and say great event, no problems.
With the 45 degree heat at Avalon this year, I’m surprised their OHS obligations let them even head out into an open field.
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Never been ramp checked personally, but a couple of years ago I helped out at a small airshow a few hundred k's North of Perth, which took place a few months after the Mallard crashed in the river in Perth on Australia Day.
Seeing pilots being met by CASA on their arrival and then again badgered immediately before heading out to display left a very bitter taste in my mind. If anything were to happen in a display the human factors 'stress' element would've been on my mind for the pilots performing.
Knowing what the organisers had had to go through to get all of the necessary approvals and then be shadowed and further harassed throughout the show really showed me how CASA view aviation.
Having grown up with airshows in the UK and the 'light touch' and progressive regulation, CASA is the complete antithesis of the UK CAA.
Whenever people ask me to explain the difference, the simplest explanation is that in the UK the regulations are written so that only the things that are prohibited are there in the rules (small & sensible), and if it's not written that you can't do it, then generally you can. In Australia, with CASA, everything that you are allowed to do has to be written and given express permission for (which is enormous, baffling, written in legalese and with all manner of get-outs and exemptions).
It raises a smile when as a fresh PPL holder with a basic IMC rating in the UK, I could fly to much lower minima than a CASA CPL/IR holder even when operating an aeroplane with far more 'toys' and equipment here than I used to in a previous life.
Seeing pilots being met by CASA on their arrival and then again badgered immediately before heading out to display left a very bitter taste in my mind. If anything were to happen in a display the human factors 'stress' element would've been on my mind for the pilots performing.
Knowing what the organisers had had to go through to get all of the necessary approvals and then be shadowed and further harassed throughout the show really showed me how CASA view aviation.
Having grown up with airshows in the UK and the 'light touch' and progressive regulation, CASA is the complete antithesis of the UK CAA.
Whenever people ask me to explain the difference, the simplest explanation is that in the UK the regulations are written so that only the things that are prohibited are there in the rules (small & sensible), and if it's not written that you can't do it, then generally you can. In Australia, with CASA, everything that you are allowed to do has to be written and given express permission for (which is enormous, baffling, written in legalese and with all manner of get-outs and exemptions).
It raises a smile when as a fresh PPL holder with a basic IMC rating in the UK, I could fly to much lower minima than a CASA CPL/IR holder even when operating an aeroplane with far more 'toys' and equipment here than I used to in a previous life.
Wasn't there but remember a story from the sixties of an air show put on at a newly opened dirt strip at a small country town. DCA were present and went around gathering the regos of all the present aircraft, mixed bag of single Cessnas, Pipers, Tigers, Austers. When asked why the answer was that the strip was considered not up to required standard because of the presence of a power line at one end and so all operators would be getting a please explain. DCA chaps were reminded to be careful when departing in their Aero Commander, and the dangers inherent in twin operations. Nothing more heard. Course it could have just been bar talk.
I wouldn’t even fly to an event where a ramp check was a possibility because, based on the stories contained in multiple threads on Pprune, it just might be the day CASA decide to make an example of someone “pour encourager les autres”. As I said; an atmosphere of fear of the regulator pervades aviation in this country and its a bad thing for safety in general.
I wouldn’t even fly to an event where a ramp check was a possibility because, based on the stories contained in multiple threads on Pprune, it just might be the day CASA decide to make an example of someone “pour encourager les autres”. As I said; an atmosphere of fear of the regulator pervades aviation in this country and its a bad thing for safety in general.
Every pilot that has their required documents on board would have zero issues with a ramp check.
Sunfish, you should give up aviation. Ramp checks are not confined to "events". They can be carried out anywhere. As noted above, if you have planned properly for your flight you will not have any issues unless you want to pick a fight. That said, in 47 years private flying and attending at events in several states I am yet to be "ramped" but have seen individuals who should be who have been woefully unprepared for flights completed or planned.
Squawk, there are 252 posts on this forum about ramp checks, not many are complimentary.
Vag, the regulations are so convoluted that no aircraft is “safe” from an inspector who decides she doesn’t like you.
To put it another way, can you imagine the public outrage if it was announced that every vehicle traveling to the footy today was going to be roadworthy tested and the drivers breathalyzer and checked for unpaid fines?
Vag, the regulations are so convoluted that no aircraft is “safe” from an inspector who decides she doesn’t like you.
To put it another way, can you imagine the public outrage if it was announced that every vehicle traveling to the footy today was going to be roadworthy tested and the drivers breathalyzer and checked for unpaid fines?
Here’s a good news ramp check story.
years ago, average GA company, usual “standard” of aircraft that the boss doesn’t really like spending money on to fix.
i start the day, about to begin the preflight. FOI and AWI ask to have a look around etc. AWI finds an issue and goes and tell the boss for me that the plane is grounded- they knew how the boss would respond if it was a pilot telling them there’s a grounded aircraft.
its not all bad.
all my other ramp checks, no problem- as long as you are doing the right thing.
you should toughen you sunny.
years ago, average GA company, usual “standard” of aircraft that the boss doesn’t really like spending money on to fix.
i start the day, about to begin the preflight. FOI and AWI ask to have a look around etc. AWI finds an issue and goes and tell the boss for me that the plane is grounded- they knew how the boss would respond if it was a pilot telling them there’s a grounded aircraft.
its not all bad.
all my other ramp checks, no problem- as long as you are doing the right thing.
you should toughen you sunny.
Squawk, there are 252 posts on this forum about ramp checks, not many are complimentary.
Vag, the regulations are so convoluted that no aircraft is “safe” from an inspector who decides she doesn’t like you.
To put it another way, can you imagine the public outrage if it was announced that every vehicle traveling to the footy today was going to be roadworthy tested and the drivers breathalyzer and checked for unpaid fines?
Vag, the regulations are so convoluted that no aircraft is “safe” from an inspector who decides she doesn’t like you.
To put it another way, can you imagine the public outrage if it was announced that every vehicle traveling to the footy today was going to be roadworthy tested and the drivers breathalyzer and checked for unpaid fines?
Exactly!!
It is no myth.
Tootle pip!!
PS: One horror story, some time back (the repeat offender is now retired from DCA/DoT-ATG/CAA/CASA) ---- ramp an aerobatic aircraft as it returns from a training session, snag both pilots for not having sundry paperwork on board,----- because you want as little as possible to go flying around the cockpit ---- and I have never been able to get CASA to admit to a definitive list of what has to be produced at a ramp check --- and I mean "definitive" as in a legal defence.
So, you wind up in the AAT fighting an "expert witness" --- opinion, or just accept the penalty.
The last airshow at YSBK --- long time ago now, CASA made everybody's life hell on the day, from CASA sitting almost on the Ringmaster's lap, to what was straight forward harassment of individual pilots taking part.
You two sound like you came from the same mould.
Ramp checks aren’t bad unless you’re 99% incompetent. CASA have been providing well documented information to pilots for a fair number of years now on what you need to have onboard to satisfy a ramp check. They give them out on credit card sized cards, complete with lanyard. If you attended more aviation events and fly-ins, such as AirVenture Australia, Avalon or perhaps Narromine next month, you’d be able to pick up some of this paraphernalia for yourselves and see that it’s not all the doom and gloom that you say it is.
Ramp checks aren’t bad unless you’re 99% incompetent. CASA have been providing well documented information to pilots for a fair number of years now on what you need to have onboard to satisfy a ramp check. They give them out on credit card sized cards, complete with lanyard. If you attended more aviation events and fly-ins, such as AirVenture Australia, Avalon or perhaps Narromine next month, you’d be able to pick up some of this paraphernalia for yourselves and see that it’s not all the doom and gloom that you say it is.
You two sound like you came from the same mould.
Ramp checks aren’t bad unless you’re 99% incompetent. CASA have been providing well documented information to pilots for a fair number of years now on what you need to have onboard to satisfy a ramp check. They give them out on credit card sized cards, complete with lanyard. If you attended more aviation events and fly-ins, such as AirVenture Australia, Avalon or perhaps Narromine next month, you’d be able to pick up some of this paraphernalia for yourselves and see that it’s not all the doom and gloom that you say it is.
Ramp checks aren’t bad unless you’re 99% incompetent. CASA have been providing well documented information to pilots for a fair number of years now on what you need to have onboard to satisfy a ramp check. They give them out on credit card sized cards, complete with lanyard. If you attended more aviation events and fly-ins, such as AirVenture Australia, Avalon or perhaps Narromine next month, you’d be able to pick up some of this paraphernalia for yourselves and see that it’s not all the doom and gloom that you say it is.
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Also, most people probably do not strictly comply with e.g. weight and balance requirements. How many actually weigh each passenger? From the CASA web site:
although we’d rather connect with you using a carrot, not a stick, don’t forget that it’s only a matter of time until you’re ramp checked, and the nice friendly CASA man is going to want to see evidence of pilot and passenger weights (standard weights should not be used in aircraft with fewer than seven seats) and evidence of cargo weights.
Many people would estimate weights when they are very familiar with their aircraft weight and balance and are sure they are within limits. It is possible that does not comply with the letter of CASA's ramp check law. Can you always provide evidence of passenger weights?
One problem is that what CASA say you need to supply on a ramp check is not necessarily supported by the regulations - it is more of a wish list. Am I really required to tell CASA where I came from?
Also, most people probably do not strictly comply with e.g. weight and balance requirements. How many actually weigh each passenger? From the CASA web site:
although we’d rather connect with you using a carrot, not a stick, don’t forget that it’s only a matter of time until you’re ramp checked, and the nice friendly CASA man is going to want to see evidence of pilot and passenger weights (standard weights should not be used in aircraft with fewer than seven seats) and evidence of cargo weights.
Many people would estimate weights when they are very familiar with their aircraft weight and balance and are sure they are within limits. It is possible that does not comply with the letter of CASA's ramp check law. Can you always provide evidence of passenger weights?
Also, most people probably do not strictly comply with e.g. weight and balance requirements. How many actually weigh each passenger? From the CASA web site:
although we’d rather connect with you using a carrot, not a stick, don’t forget that it’s only a matter of time until you’re ramp checked, and the nice friendly CASA man is going to want to see evidence of pilot and passenger weights (standard weights should not be used in aircraft with fewer than seven seats) and evidence of cargo weights.
Many people would estimate weights when they are very familiar with their aircraft weight and balance and are sure they are within limits. It is possible that does not comply with the letter of CASA's ramp check law. Can you always provide evidence of passenger weights?
Spot on!
And Squark7700 probably has not ever had the pleasure of a ramp check from an aggressive AWI or FOI.
I am bleeding well aware of the various "guides" CASA and predecessors have trotted out over the years ----- but read and try and understand what I said, as andrewr understands.
I said that CASA has not and will not commit to any definitive list that --- if you comply, you pass ---- if the FOI/AWI does not agree with the "advisory" material he/she is not bound by it ----- and there is quite a major AAT case that applies.
Likewise passenger and fuel weights ---- look at the record over the years, a terrible can of worms ---- with some terrible injustices on the record, up to an including operators driven out of business, and CASA figures finally proven wrong, but years after the financial damage was terminal.
All in all a very sorry state of affairs.
Tootle pip!!