Employment conditions in GA
So Wet Compass, what you are advocating is a closed shop? That's been illegal in Australia for a long time.
Fair Work Australia is in place, but I guess a lot of pilots don't go down that avenue for whatever reasons. Those reasons probably wouldn't change if there was any kind of reform. Can only hope that market forces will dictate, that the employers who are doing the wrong thing won't be able to compete in future for the skilled workers.
Fair Work Australia is in place, but I guess a lot of pilots don't go down that avenue for whatever reasons. Those reasons probably wouldn't change if there was any kind of reform. Can only hope that market forces will dictate, that the employers who are doing the wrong thing won't be able to compete in future for the skilled workers.
Wet Compass,
All arguments fall over when taken to a logical absurdity.
For mine, your example #1 is absurd because the bloke who turns up with every-bloody-thing paid for is probably a spoilt ****. Pilot #1 probably has work referees who will attest to his/her work ethic. Pilot #2 will have old school friends or 2 years as a director of his Dad's friend's merchant bank and a lot of photos on his (it's always a bloke) FB profile of himself surfing, hanging out with models, and going to parties.
Example #2 is also interesting. I spent 7-8 years in underground mining where everyone had to be a member of the union to have the job (not by legislation, but by some other unwritten law). There was no merit in promotion. Every deadsh!t got the job if he was mates with the Lodge Secretary and every employer was forced to pour the same training and investment into every employee (they weren't all "workers" I assure you) regardless of ability or merit.
Both sides of the argument fall over somewhere.
For mine, your example #1 is absurd because the bloke who turns up with every-bloody-thing paid for is probably a spoilt ****. Pilot #1 probably has work referees who will attest to his/her work ethic. Pilot #2 will have old school friends or 2 years as a director of his Dad's friend's merchant bank and a lot of photos on his (it's always a bloke) FB profile of himself surfing, hanging out with models, and going to parties.
Example #2 is also interesting. I spent 7-8 years in underground mining where everyone had to be a member of the union to have the job (not by legislation, but by some other unwritten law). There was no merit in promotion. Every deadsh!t got the job if he was mates with the Lodge Secretary and every employer was forced to pour the same training and investment into every employee (they weren't all "workers" I assure you) regardless of ability or merit.
QUOTE=Horatio Leafblower;10205581]Wet Compass,
All arguments fall over when taken to a logical absurdity.
For mine, your example #1 is absurd because the bloke who turns up with every-bloody-thing paid for is probably a spoilt ****. Pilot #1 probably has work referees who will attest to his/her work ethic. Pilot #2 will have old school friends or 2 years as a director of his Dad's friend's merchant bank and a lot of photos on his (it's always a bloke) FB profile of himself surfing, hanging out with models, and going to parties.
[/QUOTE]
I've personally had both #1 and #2 experiences. When I was learning to fly I didn't have wealthy parents or relatives, I had to get a well paying job before I could start learning to fly. I discovered that there were many younger trainees being supported by a parent or uncle, and a few of them even had bought their own aeroplanes to do their training. Later when I was applying for jobs I was invariably asked why I started flying so late (later than 18 I guess) and why did it take me so long to get my license. When I described how the limiting factor was earning the money to pay for my training I was told, more than once, that 'others found ways'. So to make up for a shortfall in age I decided to buy a couple of gas turbine endorsements. That actually worked in getting jobs, but in a two crew environment that didn't seem to win respect with most of the captains who would look at anyone who paid for their own endorsements with derision. Was I spoilt? Well actually no, quite the opposite. I suppose the point that Wetcompass is making is we all pay for our training, so how much is too much?
All arguments fall over when taken to a logical absurdity.
For mine, your example #1 is absurd because the bloke who turns up with every-bloody-thing paid for is probably a spoilt ****. Pilot #1 probably has work referees who will attest to his/her work ethic. Pilot #2 will have old school friends or 2 years as a director of his Dad's friend's merchant bank and a lot of photos on his (it's always a bloke) FB profile of himself surfing, hanging out with models, and going to parties.
[/QUOTE]
I've personally had both #1 and #2 experiences. When I was learning to fly I didn't have wealthy parents or relatives, I had to get a well paying job before I could start learning to fly. I discovered that there were many younger trainees being supported by a parent or uncle, and a few of them even had bought their own aeroplanes to do their training. Later when I was applying for jobs I was invariably asked why I started flying so late (later than 18 I guess) and why did it take me so long to get my license. When I described how the limiting factor was earning the money to pay for my training I was told, more than once, that 'others found ways'. So to make up for a shortfall in age I decided to buy a couple of gas turbine endorsements. That actually worked in getting jobs, but in a two crew environment that didn't seem to win respect with most of the captains who would look at anyone who paid for their own endorsements with derision. Was I spoilt? Well actually no, quite the opposite. I suppose the point that Wetcompass is making is we all pay for our training, so how much is too much?
So Wet Compass, what you are advocating is a closed shop? That's been illegal in Australia for a long time.
Fair Work Australia is in place, but I guess a lot of pilots don't go down that avenue for whatever reasons. Those reasons probably wouldn't change if there was any kind of reform. Can only hope that market forces will dictate, that the employers who are doing the wrong thing won't be able to compete in future for the skilled workers.
Fair Work Australia is in place, but I guess a lot of pilots don't go down that avenue for whatever reasons. Those reasons probably wouldn't change if there was any kind of reform. Can only hope that market forces will dictate, that the employers who are doing the wrong thing won't be able to compete in future for the skilled workers.
Let's say all the pilots in GA agreed not to accept sham contracts, is that not the very essence of a 'closed shop'? That seems to be what is being proposed in this thread, some sort of informal closed shop.
I suppose the point that Wetcompass is making is we all pay for our training, so how much is too much?
I have hired great people with lower experience levels and they worked out great.
No hypothetical on PPRuNe will describe every set of circumstances and every variable.
A question... Are there still operators that don’t pay the award? If so how? 15-20 years ago if you weren’t getting the award operators got slapped into it, or an EBA.
It is now 2018, if the award is not good enough, don’t take the job, if the operator is not paying the award report them.
Have a job and it’s paying the award or what ever EBA that you signed and agreed to and your still not happy leave.
Oh it doesn’t change from GA to airlines, pilots, we are a special bunch.
I do agree though it’s never been better, not happy vote with your feet!
It is now 2018, if the award is not good enough, don’t take the job, if the operator is not paying the award report them.
Have a job and it’s paying the award or what ever EBA that you signed and agreed to and your still not happy leave.
Oh it doesn’t change from GA to airlines, pilots, we are a special bunch.
I do agree though it’s never been better, not happy vote with your feet!
