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General Aviation Study published...

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General Aviation Study published...

Old 21st Dec 2017, 01:33
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General Aviation Study published...

The General Aviation Study was published yesterday by Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics.

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/2017/cr_001.aspx
triadic is offline  
Old 21st Dec 2017, 19:36
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Nothing good in it.
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Old 22nd Dec 2017, 03:23
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Why is GA not growing? In 1975 I paid $32/hr dual. At the time that was 30% of my before tax weekly salary as a graduate engineer (1 year out of uni) in what is now the BHP Billiton Group. On that basis dual should cost around $375/hr. Is it price or lack of interest in learning to fly? Remember, someone who has not started knows little if anything about CASA or the rules.
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Old 22nd Dec 2017, 03:53
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Why is GA not growing? Maybe because of the cost margins amongst the many other factors...
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Old 22nd Dec 2017, 05:26
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Oi reckon 'tis the 'B.S' factor.....

'When the weight of the paperwork exceeds the weight of the aeroplane, you may depart'.....

And, 'Rotsa Ruck' with that..

([SIZE="1"]As long as the ambient temp does not exceed 40C".....)

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Old 22nd Dec 2017, 05:40
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To understand the scale of the problem of GA -and why its stuffed, consider Australias GDP - an overall indicator of economic activity. in 2004 Australian GDP was approximately 613 US Billion. In 2016 is was 1.2 US trillion - approximately double.

I chose those dates because thats what BITRE used for some of its comparisons.

By my simplistic, perhaps puerile, measure we could say hat if the GA sector had doubled in size during the period 2004 - 2016, we could say that the sector is as healthy (or sick) as the rest of Australia’s economy.

BITRES analysis shows ^&%^ all change has occurred. Therefore one has to conclude that something has changed, and not for the better. Ah Ha! You say. But most of that is inflation.

So lets look at GDP at constant prices.... 2004 - 300 A$ Billion. 2016 -420 A$ billion. Thats 40% growth. Do we see a GA sector 40% larger? 40% more jobs, pilots aircraft and businesses??????? Nope, not even close. Therefore something has changed for the worse.

What has changed for the worse? The weather? The technology?

The answer is that the cause is man made and the evidence (Forsyth review) points to poor regulation causing a general lack of trust of the regulator. That translates in the capital asset pricing model to a higher risk premium on aviation investments compared to say, property, etc. so aviation investment suffers compared to investment in the rest of the economy..
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Old 22nd Dec 2017, 05:58
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Oi reckon 'tis the 'B.S' factor.....

'When the weight of the paperwork exceeds the weight of the aeroplane, you may depart'.....

And, 'Rotsa Ruck' with that..

([SIZE="1"]As long as the ambient temp does not exceed 40C".....)

I can remember years ago taxiing in a Chieftain at YBDV for final destination YBOU (with stops at Roseberth and Durrie Stations) with the OAT gauge reading 48C.

On arrival at YBOU the OAT read 51C.

Jeez Griffo me old; How did I get away with the above????


And a Merry Christmas to you an' all!
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Old 22nd Dec 2017, 06:21
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Hey Mr Pinky,

'Twas the curvature of de Earth dat got U goin'....... U knows dat.....

Oi reckon that one 'Santa' might have a problem wif dis'global warming' thingie, notwithstanding that he's only been doin' the same thing, year in year out for the last **years or so (So it is said...) and 48C..?? So Wot..??

I'm sure 'Rudolph' et al can handle that!
Piece of pi55.

I have personally seen 'Rudolph' fly thru the most atrocious weather - huge Cb - BIG rainstorm - in Russia of all places - and when 'challenged' by the authority of the day, Rudolph's response was ........Wait for it........

"Rudolph the Red knows rain dear".......

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CHEEERRRSSS
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Old 22nd Dec 2017, 23:31
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Cost of flying and regulation aren't the only factors, and indeed may not be the major ones.

Availability of cheap airfares & package deals - take the family in comfort, get there quickly, rent a car or use public transport at the other end vs. hiring an aircraft and taking many hours/days, cramped conditions, limited to no transport at the other end etc.

Road and public transport improvements - drive in comfort on freeways and major roads, stop off at places on the way etc.

Such things pass the wife & family test over hiring an aircraft.
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Old 22nd Dec 2017, 23:43
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See the front page of The Australian this morning. Disturbing stories about the destruction of the Aus flying training industry. They clearly forgot to mention AG flying is up so all ok!
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Old 22nd Dec 2017, 23:59
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Having read the report it glosses over many areas, then having read CASA's reply in the Australian all I can say is it isn't just General Aviation in this country that is suffering.

Over regulation, nanny state rules and politicians that are more interested in self than nation all lead us to where we are today.

I know you cannot go back to the 50's and 60's but we need to take a good hard look at ourselves and who,leads us.

If Barneby Joyce had the BALLS and stood up to CASA then the whole aviation community would be behind him. But no he is forced to follow the mantra of party politics and staying in power at any cost.

The result is another industry destroyed.

For my part I still believe in General Aviation and try to make it happen.
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Old 23rd Dec 2017, 01:18
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G'day Dick . I work in both Training and Ag lol ..... I have lost all interest in aviation as an industry because of the decades of pointless change in aviation regulation making a simple activity as difficult as possible .
Part 61 etc. was the last straw for me .

BTW have followed your views over the years and love your work .
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Old 23rd Dec 2017, 02:34
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To enlarge on Captain Midnight's points: I flew my aeroplane from Goulburn to Caloundra earlier this year. 5.5 hours (fun not fast), with an overnight due weather and one turn back due weather. Fuel cost approx $350, accommodation $100. If I had hired an aircraft, probably twice the cost.

I could have transported myself by jet over the same leg for approx $150 and less than 2 hours. Light aeroplanes are not the cost effective transport option of 40 years ago. Perhaps those of us with the aviation obsession need to look at our industry with the eyes of those who are not obsessed.
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Old 23rd Dec 2017, 06:22
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Vag... all well and good for now mostly defunct pvt GA, cost of fuel and maint. and reg BS have killed it off.
But as Airag says ...try running a business. The CAsA nitpickers and reg contol freaks drive people insane with stuff that really is just 'make work' for them..job justification. WITH NO OVERALL INCREASE IN SAFETY BENEFIT.

It has cost the country dearly...$ billions wasted and for what !
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Old 23rd Dec 2017, 13:11
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Another sad thing about Aus GA, the career path for a helicopter pilot has all but been destroyed by a mixture over regulation, economic downturn and increased operating costs/insurance minimums. No one wants to know you if they have to invest a time or a few dollars. If you didn't get in before 2012-13 you're stuck in tourism, or you can try buy your way out of it.
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Old 23rd Dec 2017, 19:43
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To put it another way, how great would Australias mining industry be today if its regulators charged $160 per hour to deliberate on its mining proposals and then told the mine operators to use a pick and shovel instead of explosives and a Cat D10 dozer?
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Old 23rd Dec 2017, 19:58
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Originally Posted by Vag277 View Post
To enlarge on Captain Midnight's points: I flew my aeroplane from Goulburn to Caloundra earlier this year. 5.5 hours (fun not fast), with an overnight due weather and one turn back due weather. Fuel cost approx $350, accommodation $100. If I had hired an aircraft, probably twice the cost.

I could have transported myself by jet over the same leg for approx $150 and less than 2 hours. Light aeroplanes are not the cost effective transport option of 40 years ago. Perhaps those of us with the aviation obsession need to look at our industry with the eyes of those who are not obsessed.
You only counted the ‘in air’ times. At what airport with an RPT jet service can you board 5 minutes after getting dropped by the taxi or parking your car?

Do the numbers for a jet from Goulburn to White Cliffs rather than Caloundra.

In any event, for some of us it’s not about the ‘efficiency’ of the mode of transport. It’s about flying for flying’s sake.

Flying for flying’s sake is now much harder and inconvenient than it used to be, and unnecessarily so. Flying for flying’s sake is now much more expensive than it used to be, and it’s a rip off. The causes have an even greater effect on those who try to make a living as a small business in aviation.

I’ll make a wild guess as to why your aircraft is parked at Goulburn rather than Canberra: Fees, charges and security arrangements? GA is treated as a low priority irritant by the airport owner. What little GA infrastructure that remains is inexorably being removed and the inconvenience levels increased. Next time you fly into Canberra in a GA aircraft, see if you find an air-side toilet. (Try finding one at e.g. Parafield or Ceduna for that matter.) GA pilots are treated as supplicants.

Ask all the flying training schools that used to be based in Canberra: Why did you leave? How much was the average cost simply to do 1 circuit in a Cessna 152?

There is no longer any GA maintenance organisation on the field at Canberra. And Canberra is the capital city of a country that feigns first-world aviation nation status.

There are country aerodromes whose facilities haven’t had a cent spent on them in 30 years.

Meanwhile the ‘safety’ regulator keeps on complicating rather than simplifying. It’s just the same cycle, over and over and over again, but with each lap the complexity of the rules just keeps piling up, the number of participants in ‘mainstream GA’ decreases, the salaries of the regulator’s staff increase and the ‘we are going to fix everything soon’ review is just a bigger insult our intelligence. (Dick’s on yet another lap of his futile ‘put pressure on the new Minister’ merry-go-round. Just goes to show that even old dogs who are millionaires can’t be taught new tricks.)

All of this is man made. It’s man made by the stultifying mediocrities that have presumed the title ‘governments’ over the last couple of decades. All the ‘simplified’ new Parts of the civil aviation legislation aren’t gold tablets discovered in the desert. They are man made. They are made by complicators, not simplifiers. Part 61 didn’t simplify and didn’t contribute thing one to safety. People are being paid six-figure salaries to create this complexity then review the mess they’ve made.

The same stultifying mediocrities have built an economy that is mainly a Ponzi scheme dependent on immigration-driven demand. The same mediocrities who’ve inflicted the highest energy prices and decreased the average citizens’ standard of living while creating a record number of millionaires (including private individuals to whom our public infrastructure was effectively gifted) and a record number of homeless.

This is what is driving the exodus away from the mainstream parties to the minor parties and independents. Heavens’ knows what they’ll do when they take charge, but it can’t be much worse than the alternatives.
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Old 23rd Dec 2017, 22:26
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Lead Balloon. Good stuff. No. I don’t mind the criticism.

Do I know you ? Give me I ring some time!
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Old 23rd Dec 2017, 23:36
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Lead Balloon, so very, very true.

So how do we fix it?

Refuse to comply with the pointless Regs? (That will end well. Not.)
Bombard the new Minister with reasons why we need change?
Make this a matter in any state or federal election coming up?
Write to the newspapers, etc, stating basic arguments for the layperson to understand?

We are aware of what the problem is, so how to fix it? One place I see as a handy place to start is for AOPA (or similar) to get the maintenance costs for a Cessna 206 or a Piper PA 31, and compare them across countries - Canada, En Zed, Australia, Africa. Letís see how the different regulations contribute to the costs of operating aircraft in different countries. Then letís see what can be removed from Aussie Regs. I know one good place to start - it is a requirement that the exhausts on a PA31 be inspected every 60 hours. But this doesnít kick in when the exhaust is x hours old - the inspections start from when the exhaust is brand new. Yes, I am aware that older exhausts have issues, so why not start the inspections when the exhaust is 750 (or whenever) hours old. Why start the 60 hourly inspections from brand new? And why 60 hourly - why canít they be inspected at 50 hours or 100 hours, to tie in with times when the aircraft could reasonably be inspected to be in the workshop? Not every owner or operator has a maintenance workshop on their doorstep.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 00:04
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outnabout - That AD @ every 60 hours is a concession CAsA gave. It would have been every 50 hours but CAsA made it 60, to fit in with periodic inspections on Systems of Maintenance that have +/-5 or 10 hour tolerance between MR issues.
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