General Aviation Study published...
I think there is a danger in thinking the solution is simply make the legislation easier and operational costs lower and GA will suddenly flourish.
There are more legs on this table than just that one.
Not saying that legislation/cost change isn't an important issue (it is) but I think that unless there is new, enthusiastic blood getting excited about and then into flying, legislation and cost changes will only delay the decline.
GA grows from the bottom up, not the top down.
Getting people into flying means competing against the attractions of video games and social media immersion. That is hard. Kids no longer build models of planes and dream of growing up to fly them, they play computer games. Adults get lost in social media.
Becoming a pilot these days seems more about flash uniforms and pushing buttons on a complicated computer system, not about actually flying aeroplanes because it is something that stirs the blood.
I don't have any magic bullets for that other than using the enthusiasm of people in aviation (in all areas of aviation, not just GA), who are in the game because they love aviation.
Buy someone a TIF as a xmas present. Without a steady flow of new blood, GA will die.
There are more legs on this table than just that one.
Not saying that legislation/cost change isn't an important issue (it is) but I think that unless there is new, enthusiastic blood getting excited about and then into flying, legislation and cost changes will only delay the decline.
GA grows from the bottom up, not the top down.
Getting people into flying means competing against the attractions of video games and social media immersion. That is hard. Kids no longer build models of planes and dream of growing up to fly them, they play computer games. Adults get lost in social media.
Becoming a pilot these days seems more about flash uniforms and pushing buttons on a complicated computer system, not about actually flying aeroplanes because it is something that stirs the blood.
I don't have any magic bullets for that other than using the enthusiasm of people in aviation (in all areas of aviation, not just GA), who are in the game because they love aviation.
Buy someone a TIF as a xmas present. Without a steady flow of new blood, GA will die.
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Buy someone a TIF as a xmas present. Without a steady flow of new blood, GA will die.
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I was horrified when I did a TIF at 21 many years ago and saw the state of the smelly old 172 I was expected to spend so many hours in. I remember feeling unwell once and it was difficult to open the prehistoric airvent up near the wing root and I was wondering where this time capsule had come from.
Thats the beauty of training in an open cockpit biplane...plenty of fresh air to keep you alert. Not boxed on with yesterdays vomit fumes still permeating from the back seat.
One minor problem tho ... there was an Instructor who used to hoik over the side...as soon as you heard him 'clear' the throat....pay careful attention to which side he leaned to or you could cop a goozie on yr goggles !!
Ah the good old days.!
One minor problem tho ... there was an Instructor who used to hoik over the side...as soon as you heard him 'clear' the throat....pay careful attention to which side he leaned to or you could cop a goozie on yr goggles !!
Ah the good old days.!
Flying training is actually going very well in Australia. It is run by RAA schools with aircraft built this century. My guess is there are now more RAA schools in Australia than there were GA schools "back then". Why would anyone pay north of $300 per hour to learn to fly in something GA registered when they can learn to fly for less than $200.00 at a local RAA school? CASA recognise this and hand out a GA licence to RAA licence holders
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LOL. They certainly don't just give it away, that's for sure! Plenty of GA schools still fleece a few extra hours out of the RAA certificate holders to get their RPL whilst they can, assuming that is what you're referring to.
Jonkster, you are partially right, the problem is not just rules and regulations, it goes deeper than that. The problem is trust and with that goes certainty and predictability. Lack of trust, uncertainty and unpredictable behaviour that goes with it increases business risk. The main conclusion of the Forsyth Review was that the industry does not trust the regulator.
The higher the risk then the higher must be the return to compensate for the higher risk. Hence flying has to cost more, if it happens at all.
As for the RAA, SOAR, SAAA etc. they can be shut down (as has happened before) by CASA at the stroke of a pen. Aviation businesses are not safe investments in Australia hence the industry is dying.
The higher the risk then the higher must be the return to compensate for the higher risk. Hence flying has to cost more, if it happens at all.
As for the RAA, SOAR, SAAA etc. they can be shut down (as has happened before) by CASA at the stroke of a pen. Aviation businesses are not safe investments in Australia hence the industry is dying.
Privatisation of the airports sending costs through the roof
Cost of compliance (and rents, see above) for maintenance organisations increasing and being passed on to aircraft owners including schools
RA Aus aircraft being allowed to operate schools in Class D aerodromes alongside GA schools.
Decreasing pool of experienced instructors to mentor the new ones. (I understand this is why CSWAFC hasn't been operating for some time?)
Lack of availability of AVGAS in rural areas
People rorting the government FEE HELP money tree, promising so much but often leaving trails of destruction
Cost of compliance (and rents, see above) for maintenance organisations increasing and being passed on to aircraft owners including schools
RA Aus aircraft being allowed to operate schools in Class D aerodromes alongside GA schools.
Decreasing pool of experienced instructors to mentor the new ones. (I understand this is why CSWAFC hasn't been operating for some time?)
Lack of availability of AVGAS in rural areas
People rorting the government FEE HELP money tree, promising so much but often leaving trails of destruction
Bendalot, that doesn’t explain why the exhaust has to be inspected every 60 hours from brand new. If issues start at 1000 hours, then why not inspect every 100 hours until 750 hours, and then kick in with the 60 hourly inspection?
Not every pilot / operator has a maintenance org in their doorstep.....
But there are many, many factors crippling GA.
China owns Australian airport after paying $1 for lease | Daily Mail Online
Not every pilot / operator has a maintenance org in their doorstep.....
But there are many, many factors crippling GA.
China owns Australian airport after paying $1 for lease | Daily Mail Online
Last edited by outnabout; 27th Dec 2017 at 01:48.
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You only counted the ‘in air’ times. At what airport with an RPT jet service can you board 5 minutes after getting dropped by the taxi or parking your car?
Do the numbers for a jet from Goulburn to White Cliffs rather than Caloundra.
In any event, for some of us it’s not about the ‘efficiency’ of the mode of transport. It’s about flying for flying’s sake.
Flying for flying’s sake is now much harder and inconvenient than it used to be, and unnecessarily so. Flying for flying’s sake is now much more expensive than it used to be, and it’s a rip off. The causes have an even greater effect on those who try to make a living as a small business in aviation.
I’ll make a wild guess as to why your aircraft is parked at Goulburn rather than Canberra: Fees, charges and security arrangements? GA is treated as a low priority irritant by the airport owner. What little GA infrastructure that remains is inexorably being removed and the inconvenience levels increased. Next time you fly into Canberra in a GA aircraft, see if you find an air-side toilet. (Try finding one at e.g. Parafield or Ceduna for that matter.) GA pilots are treated as supplicants.
Ask all the flying training schools that used to be based in Canberra: Why did you leave? How much was the average cost simply to do 1 circuit in a Cessna 152?
There is no longer any GA maintenance organisation on the field at Canberra. And Canberra is the capital city of a country that feigns first-world aviation nation status.
There are country aerodromes whose facilities haven’t had a cent spent on them in 30 years.
Meanwhile the ‘safety’ regulator keeps on complicating rather than simplifying. It’s just the same cycle, over and over and over again, but with each lap the complexity of the rules just keeps piling up, the number of participants in ‘mainstream GA’ decreases, the salaries of the regulator’s staff increase and the ‘we are going to fix everything soon’ review is just a bigger insult our intelligence. (Dick’s on yet another lap of his futile ‘put pressure on the new Minister’ merry-go-round. Just goes to show that even old dogs who are millionaires can’t be taught new tricks.)
All of this is man made. It’s man made by the stultifying mediocrities that have presumed the title ‘governments’ over the last couple of decades. All the ‘simplified’ new Parts of the civil aviation legislation aren’t gold tablets discovered in the desert. They are man made. They are made by complicators, not simplifiers. Part 61 didn’t simplify and didn’t contribute thing one to safety. People are being paid six-figure salaries to create this complexity then review the mess they’ve made.
The same stultifying mediocrities have built an economy that is mainly a Ponzi scheme dependent on immigration-driven demand. The same mediocrities who’ve inflicted the highest energy prices and decreased the average citizens’ standard of living while creating a record number of millionaires (including private individuals to whom our public infrastructure was effectively gifted) and a record number of homeless.
This is what is driving the exodus away from the mainstream parties to the minor parties and independents. Heavens’ knows what they’ll do when they take charge, but it can’t be much worse than the alternatives.
Do the numbers for a jet from Goulburn to White Cliffs rather than Caloundra.
In any event, for some of us it’s not about the ‘efficiency’ of the mode of transport. It’s about flying for flying’s sake.
Flying for flying’s sake is now much harder and inconvenient than it used to be, and unnecessarily so. Flying for flying’s sake is now much more expensive than it used to be, and it’s a rip off. The causes have an even greater effect on those who try to make a living as a small business in aviation.
I’ll make a wild guess as to why your aircraft is parked at Goulburn rather than Canberra: Fees, charges and security arrangements? GA is treated as a low priority irritant by the airport owner. What little GA infrastructure that remains is inexorably being removed and the inconvenience levels increased. Next time you fly into Canberra in a GA aircraft, see if you find an air-side toilet. (Try finding one at e.g. Parafield or Ceduna for that matter.) GA pilots are treated as supplicants.
Ask all the flying training schools that used to be based in Canberra: Why did you leave? How much was the average cost simply to do 1 circuit in a Cessna 152?
There is no longer any GA maintenance organisation on the field at Canberra. And Canberra is the capital city of a country that feigns first-world aviation nation status.
There are country aerodromes whose facilities haven’t had a cent spent on them in 30 years.
Meanwhile the ‘safety’ regulator keeps on complicating rather than simplifying. It’s just the same cycle, over and over and over again, but with each lap the complexity of the rules just keeps piling up, the number of participants in ‘mainstream GA’ decreases, the salaries of the regulator’s staff increase and the ‘we are going to fix everything soon’ review is just a bigger insult our intelligence. (Dick’s on yet another lap of his futile ‘put pressure on the new Minister’ merry-go-round. Just goes to show that even old dogs who are millionaires can’t be taught new tricks.)
All of this is man made. It’s man made by the stultifying mediocrities that have presumed the title ‘governments’ over the last couple of decades. All the ‘simplified’ new Parts of the civil aviation legislation aren’t gold tablets discovered in the desert. They are man made. They are made by complicators, not simplifiers. Part 61 didn’t simplify and didn’t contribute thing one to safety. People are being paid six-figure salaries to create this complexity then review the mess they’ve made.
The same stultifying mediocrities have built an economy that is mainly a Ponzi scheme dependent on immigration-driven demand. The same mediocrities who’ve inflicted the highest energy prices and decreased the average citizens’ standard of living while creating a record number of millionaires (including private individuals to whom our public infrastructure was effectively gifted) and a record number of homeless.
This is what is driving the exodus away from the mainstream parties to the minor parties and independents. Heavens’ knows what they’ll do when they take charge, but it can’t be much worse than the alternatives.
I cant believe im reading this statement.
You are the most hypocritical person ive every come across.
YOU have personaly caused how many people personal grive whislt you were employed by casa.
Yet you are once again on this forum having a crack at the regulator that you once used your employment to rake havoc and pain to the aircraft community.
Your no hero just a even if you have a medal. Your no savour to the industry no matter how hard you try. Just a sad humpty dumpty that cant get over being removed from casa and lossing your powers.
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Now ain't that the truth the whole truth and nothing but . .. . . . his brethren will have a lot for which to answer if ever there comes a judgement day.
anyone familiar with the JQ case will know of what we speak.
you poor bugger you are so incensed you cannot even type right.
anyone familiar with the JQ case will know of what we speak.
you poor bugger you are so incensed you cannot even type right.
Conner Rod,
It is obviously beyond your capabilities to understand that people change, mature, grow up, see the error of their ways, partake in the getting of wisdom, or whatever way you want to describe it.
Having been one of his greatest critics almost 20 years ago, I have absolutely no problem accepting the current views of Lead Balloon as genuine and sincere.
Tootle pip!!
It is obviously beyond your capabilities to understand that people change, mature, grow up, see the error of their ways, partake in the getting of wisdom, or whatever way you want to describe it.
Having been one of his greatest critics almost 20 years ago, I have absolutely no problem accepting the current views of Lead Balloon as genuine and sincere.
Tootle pip!!
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Conner Rod,
It is obviously beyond your capabilities to understand that people change, mature, grow up, see the error of their ways, partake in the getting of wisdom, or whatever way you want to describe it.
Having been one of his greatest critics almost 20 years ago, I have absolutely no problem accepting the current views of Lead Balloon as genuine and sincere.
Tootle pip!!
It is obviously beyond your capabilities to understand that people change, mature, grow up, see the error of their ways, partake in the getting of wisdom, or whatever way you want to describe it.
Having been one of his greatest critics almost 20 years ago, I have absolutely no problem accepting the current views of Lead Balloon as genuine and sincere.
Tootle pip!!
He has as much remorse as a Catholic priest who has just touched up the alter boy and is now giving confession...
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Lots of those RAAus aircraft are not going to stand up to much training use. RAAus itself is going the way of CASA, after all it is a mini CASA and wholly owned by CASA, instead of an organisation promoting the flying of ultralight aircraft on behalf of its members. Many of its members are unhappy about its direction.
All of these recreational aviation organisations cannot help themselves when CASA offers them some regulatory powers and the chance to act like policemen. Many of the members are apparently former Stasi informants who are ever ready to dob people for not complying with some stupid rule.
My advice to any young people wanting to do aviation either recreationally or professionally is to move to the United States if you can.
Part of the malaise in GA is that until the last couple of decades it was able to utilise the left over infrastructure from WW2 flying training in the form of instructors, airfields etc. That is now gone or needs refurbishing. GA is still the best way to get around inland Australia from one country town to another.
Driving is now a pain with stupid speed limits and enforcement of same (random taxation to pay the salaries of those doing the enforcing - we used to hang highwaymen -now they are in uniform) resulting in frustrated drivers who aren't paying attention.
All of these recreational aviation organisations cannot help themselves when CASA offers them some regulatory powers and the chance to act like policemen. Many of the members are apparently former Stasi informants who are ever ready to dob people for not complying with some stupid rule.
My advice to any young people wanting to do aviation either recreationally or professionally is to move to the United States if you can.
Part of the malaise in GA is that until the last couple of decades it was able to utilise the left over infrastructure from WW2 flying training in the form of instructors, airfields etc. That is now gone or needs refurbishing. GA is still the best way to get around inland Australia from one country town to another.
Driving is now a pain with stupid speed limits and enforcement of same (random taxation to pay the salaries of those doing the enforcing - we used to hang highwaymen -now they are in uniform) resulting in frustrated drivers who aren't paying attention.
