Good on you Moorabbin - what has happened at Bankstown?
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Good on you Moorabbin - what has happened at Bankstown?
In the article this morning in today’s Australian headed “Thousands of future pilots train at metropolitan airports” it mentions that students training at Moorabbin are increasing at 4% annually. This is incredible and seems to be at odds with my experience at Bankstown, where the training seems to have dropped dramatically.
What is a little disturbing is the paragraph:
Wouldn’t you think we could own our own flight training schools? If I remember correctly, the instrument school at Port Macquarie is now Chinese owned.
The problem here is that all the wealth created goes to China and doesn’t remain in Australia for our future generations.
Does anyone know why Moorabbin would be increasing flight training numbers while Bankstown is either static or decreasing?
What is a little disturbing is the paragraph:
In Moorabbin’s case, the Chinese Government owns 10% of the airport as well as three flight training schools at the base.
The problem here is that all the wealth created goes to China and doesn’t remain in Australia for our future generations.
Does anyone know why Moorabbin would be increasing flight training numbers while Bankstown is either static or decreasing?
...Wouldn’t you think we could own our own flight training schools? If I remember correctly, the instrument school at Port Macquarie is now Chinese owned.
The problem here is that all the wealth created goes to China and doesn’t remain in Australia for our future generations...
The problem here is that all the wealth created goes to China and doesn’t remain in Australia for our future generations...
All thanks to government corruption at the top...
"...Malcolm Turnbull should come clean and explain to his party and the public that his son, Alex is heavily invested in wind power outfit, Infigen and did so at a time when it was on the brink of bankruptcy.
In one of the luckiest bets of all time, Alex Turnbull managed to buy in when Infigen shares were a measly $0.20, just before his Dad signed Australia up to the Paris Climate Change agreement, after which they rocketed to $1.20..."
https://stopthesethings.com/2017/10/...t-must-go-now/
I reckon a Dick Smith prime minister would clean out that corruption..
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There is no doubt Moorabbin has got a lot busier of late. The seemingly ever increasing fleet of Soar Aviation's yellow Foxbats along with the large fleet of Oxford C172's with their foreign students, all competing for airspace with RVAC, MFT, MFS, MAS, Bini's etc etc means the place is very busy most of the time. Why have the training numbers increased..? Well from what I've been told (this is a rumour network) Soar are cheaper RAAus and don't have to pay landing fees (can someone confirm this?). Oxford are obviously training a lot of overseas students.
Maybe Glen B can offer some more insight into what's happening there..?
As far as Bankstown goes, given the uncertainty about it's future viability I'm not surprised the place is struggling.
Maybe Glen B can offer some more insight into what's happening there..?
As far as Bankstown goes, given the uncertainty about it's future viability I'm not surprised the place is struggling.
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If I'm not mistaken, Soar own approximately 36 aircraft including mostly Foxbats but have recently been buying up on new Bristells.
Interestingly I believe that all of their Foxbats bar the Vixen have been purchased second-hand (happy to be corrected on that).
I also heard that Soar are expanding their fleet at Bankstown significantly in the near future with plans for it to be bigger than Moorabbin. Fact or fiction I'm not sure, but good on them for making it work!
CASA predicted this when they approved the LSA category for Australia. What I suspect they didn't expect, was that the LSA aircraft that would rejuvenate aviation in Australia, would have numbers on the side rather than letters, but they let this happen when they allowed raaus schools into Bankstown and Moorabbin etc.
The purpose of the LSA category was to allow cheaper and more affordable aircraft to operate in the country, but primarily for GA schools so that they could complete on a level playing field with raaus schools, with letters versus numbers. Same aircraft, same costs, different rego. The influx of LSA aircraft has proven this idea worked.
The $64m question literally is why has it taken off in Moorabbin and not Bankstown. Well maybe just Moorabbin was first and Bankstown will follow shortly. If SOAR has their way... it soon will!
There's so many variables for the Chinese though. Schools onsite, schools available for sale, school reputation, proximity to international airport, proximity to CTA, airport costs, availability of accommodation... but most importantly, everyone knows (including the Chinese it would seem), that Melbourne is better than Sydney :-)
Interestingly I believe that all of their Foxbats bar the Vixen have been purchased second-hand (happy to be corrected on that).
I also heard that Soar are expanding their fleet at Bankstown significantly in the near future with plans for it to be bigger than Moorabbin. Fact or fiction I'm not sure, but good on them for making it work!
CASA predicted this when they approved the LSA category for Australia. What I suspect they didn't expect, was that the LSA aircraft that would rejuvenate aviation in Australia, would have numbers on the side rather than letters, but they let this happen when they allowed raaus schools into Bankstown and Moorabbin etc.
The purpose of the LSA category was to allow cheaper and more affordable aircraft to operate in the country, but primarily for GA schools so that they could complete on a level playing field with raaus schools, with letters versus numbers. Same aircraft, same costs, different rego. The influx of LSA aircraft has proven this idea worked.
The $64m question literally is why has it taken off in Moorabbin and not Bankstown. Well maybe just Moorabbin was first and Bankstown will follow shortly. If SOAR has their way... it soon will!
There's so many variables for the Chinese though. Schools onsite, schools available for sale, school reputation, proximity to international airport, proximity to CTA, airport costs, availability of accommodation... but most importantly, everyone knows (including the Chinese it would seem), that Melbourne is better than Sydney :-)
Glen (and others) are closer to it than I am .... speaking with the new management a while back I was told that their focus was to promote flight training there, a change from their predecessors.
Along with the apparent increase in student numbers at Moorabbin, one presumes the number of flying instructors will need to be increased to cope with student influx.
In turn, CASA FOI's need to ensure that CFI's closely monitor the standard of their new instructors for quality assurance. That means flying with their ab-initio students. That doesn't mean just one short flight every few months to tick the boxes.
To ensure the hoped-for high standard of new instructors is maintained at each training establishment, CFI's must plan to fly regularly with ab-initio students; not merely abrogate their responsibility by passing the buck to their grade 1 and 2 instructors based on the excuse they (CFI's) are too swamped with paperwork or flying with IFR students, to bother with ab-initio newbies.
In turn, CASA FOI's need to ensure that CFI's closely monitor the standard of their new instructors for quality assurance. That means flying with their ab-initio students. That doesn't mean just one short flight every few months to tick the boxes.
To ensure the hoped-for high standard of new instructors is maintained at each training establishment, CFI's must plan to fly regularly with ab-initio students; not merely abrogate their responsibility by passing the buck to their grade 1 and 2 instructors based on the excuse they (CFI's) are too swamped with paperwork or flying with IFR students, to bother with ab-initio newbies.
Folks,
Mostly what is going on at Bankstown is really swinging rent increases, so I hear.
By casual observation, I find some of the claims of improved movement rates very very difficult to believe.
It is a sad place, and will only get much worse, unless some serious ICAO-compliant surgery in done to the proposed Sydney West airport, a CTA zone is proposed to cover manoeuvers that will never be flown, by aircraft that do not and will never exist --- can't get much "safer" than that!!
Tootle pip!!
Mostly what is going on at Bankstown is really swinging rent increases, so I hear.
By casual observation, I find some of the claims of improved movement rates very very difficult to believe.
It is a sad place, and will only get much worse, unless some serious ICAO-compliant surgery in done to the proposed Sydney West airport, a CTA zone is proposed to cover manoeuvers that will never be flown, by aircraft that do not and will never exist --- can't get much "safer" than that!!
Tootle pip!!
Last edited by LeadSled; 15th Nov 2017 at 04:46.
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"In Moorabbin’s case, the Chinese Government owns 10% of the airport as well as three flight training schools at the base."
Scuse me, but did I read somewhere that the Airports Act precluded Foreign entities or Trusts from owning Airports?
Bit strange, MB has Chinese investors, BK is owned by a trust, the head lease holder for KSA resides in the Bahama's.
Leady is right regarding Sydney west. With its CTA zone devised using 1940ies algorithms, IFR arrivals into BK will be almost impossible. The old 18/36 runway, with an upgrade, could have been an alternative, but they closed that, contrary to their lease, to facilitate a development shark building a DFO for aircraft to crash into.
Scuse me, but did I read somewhere that the Airports Act precluded Foreign entities or Trusts from owning Airports?
Bit strange, MB has Chinese investors, BK is owned by a trust, the head lease holder for KSA resides in the Bahama's.
Leady is right regarding Sydney west. With its CTA zone devised using 1940ies algorithms, IFR arrivals into BK will be almost impossible. The old 18/36 runway, with an upgrade, could have been an alternative, but they closed that, contrary to their lease, to facilitate a development shark building a DFO for aircraft to crash into.
Folks,
Re. Sydney West, what is proposed for a CTA is bigger than London Heathrow (EGLL) zone, is bigger than a theoretical zone to encompass Cat. E aircraft circling.
There is no such thing as a civil Cat.E aircraft, never will be, and no large aircraft does circling approaches any longer, there is simply no need to make provision for "and aircraft that does not exist, doing a manoeuver that will never be flown".
A minimum CTA fully compliant with ICAO standards, that will provide the necessary protection for operations at Sydney West, will dramatically reduce the impact on Bankstown, Camden and the whole Sydney basin.
Cutting Richmond zone down to something like NATO, US or Canadian military happily live with would also help enormously.
But, this is Australia, where nobody but "progressives" fight for rights.
Tootle pip!!
Re. Sydney West, what is proposed for a CTA is bigger than London Heathrow (EGLL) zone, is bigger than a theoretical zone to encompass Cat. E aircraft circling.
There is no such thing as a civil Cat.E aircraft, never will be, and no large aircraft does circling approaches any longer, there is simply no need to make provision for "and aircraft that does not exist, doing a manoeuver that will never be flown".
A minimum CTA fully compliant with ICAO standards, that will provide the necessary protection for operations at Sydney West, will dramatically reduce the impact on Bankstown, Camden and the whole Sydney basin.
Cutting Richmond zone down to something like NATO, US or Canadian military happily live with would also help enormously.
But, this is Australia, where nobody but "progressives" fight for rights.
Tootle pip!!
