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King Air down at Essendon?

Old 22nd Feb 2017, 01:03
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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I'm confused about the location and direction. Has it been confirmed whether he crashed immediately after takeoff, or attempting some sort of return to the airport?

The crash site appears to be about 300m from runway centreline. The footage shown on the news it looks like the aircraft was wings level, descending around 150m? from runway centreline. It looks like the direction of travel was almost 90 degrees to the runway.

I don't see how you can turn almost 90 degrees and be wings level within 150m of the runway. Likewise if he was maneuvering to return I don't really understand how you would end up in that location without a good opportunity to put it on a runway. Very strange.

Maybe the footage is misleading? In any case I am sure that the flight path is well documented and will come out in due course.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 01:04
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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How many cycles/hours did Max have on the B200 ? Good question - but a better question is how current in efato training was he??? When was he last in a simulator to practice and hone this stuff - if ever???

I will probably get shot at for sure if I say it was very very likely a factor.

Last edited by rodney rude; 22nd Feb 2017 at 01:23.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 01:17
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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Has the possibility of a double engine failure been considered? highly unlikely, not not impossible.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 01:27
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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Power lever slideback on the left or both, one witness heard high revving engine prior to impact, pitch control failure ?.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 01:42
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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Its just the angle of the corner that the video was taken from.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 01:50
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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andrew, if the failure was on the port engine below Vcma then the aircraft will bank to port. To get wings level you have to reduce power on the live engine but then you are descending towards the landing if you have open space in front of you, otherwise accident. Hence the safety briefing before departure so that you are ready before it happens.

Last edited by runway30; 22nd Feb 2017 at 02:26. Reason: Loss of memory
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 02:07
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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Runway30 not correct. You are thinking of Vmca.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 02:29
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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Desmo, thanks for the correction. Having had it happen to me, I know that between Vcma and Vyse, they don't fly very well..............
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 02:33
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Its just the angle of the corner that the video was taken from.
Probably, it just doesn't look right. I would have expected either the aircraft to be head on, or in an obvious bank. That road is pointing directly at the intersection, at an angle of about 30 degrees to the runway. The aircraft definitely crosses left-right, so it has turned much more than 30 degrees, but is still less than 300m off centre line.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 03:23
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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Skillsy and others, to see how much Melbourne has expanded over the years and surrounded Essendon have a look at Melbourne 1945 (no dot com on the end)

The media is reporting the airfield is closed. Notam and ATIS state Police, Ambos, etc only. I thought it would have been open.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 03:24
  #211 (permalink)  
 
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How many cycles/hours did Max have on the B200 ? Good question - but a better question is how current in EFATO training was he??? When was he last in a simulator to practice and hone this stuff - if ever???
Only guys who didn't know Max would ask dopey questions like this.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 03:31
  #212 (permalink)  
 
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Pure observations...

I will admit my first thoughts were EFATO on a B200 should not end like this. This aeroplane is almost stupid proof. But the more I watch the video and look at the satellite map, the more I think this poor chap was forced to reduce power on the live engine to maintain control.

The eyewitness report of a sharp turn to the left and the location at which he crosses over Bulla Rd makes me think he tried to fly runway heading for as long as he could, but as his speed dropped and not being able to maintain his height he pulled a hard left to avoid the houses.

The rocking of the wings indicate to me he fought the plane all the way, trying to stay just above Vmca.

No matter what the reasons for the engine failure or the cause of power loss, I feel his efforts should be recognised.

I'm not sure why, maybe because I was a local to Raleigh grove, or did my first TIF out of YMEN, this crash has saddened me more than others.

My sincere condolences to all those affected by this tragic accident.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 03:37
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What is Vmca?? Where is it defined?
I am well aware of Vmc as defined by FAR23.149. and have been involved in the determination of Vmc and Vmcg for a number of aircraft types.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 03:44
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VMC Minimum Control Speed
VMCA Minimum Control Airspeed Airborne (Red line speed)
From CAAP 5.23-1(2): Multi-engine aeroplane operations and training
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 03:47
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Reading the posts, there is a lot of discussions around gear up or down prior to impact...

This video clearly shows them down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2F7mcfZ5jg

screenshot attached.
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2017-02-22_15h37_04.png (86.7 KB, 22 views)
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 03:53
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has it been confirmed there was an engine failure?
Control surface failure?
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 03:53
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If the LEFT engine failed or failed first (i.e. in the event of dual engine failure) it is probable that the aircraft would have initially yawed to the LEFT..possibly as far as 30 deg LEFT of the centre-line of Runway 17. Again, if the problem was engine failure and/or the auto-feather system did not function correctly or quickly enough, the pilot may have been looking to put the aircraft back down on the ground, instead of conducting a single engine climb and recovery back to the field. There is very limited space on the eastern side of Runway 17, so he may have initially aimed at Bulla Road, which would have been directly to his front. However, he either lost control very late in the descent and veered into the Direct Factory Outlet (DFO) and/or Bulla Road was occupied by heavy morning vehicle traffic, so he may have had no option - but to put down on the roof of the DFO, which is located between Runway 17 and the airport boundary.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 03:56
  #218 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe the footage is misleading?
An observation of this very sad incident……

I'm not convinced it's genuine footage of the incident. The aircraft certainly appears to be travelling at near right angles or at least at a significant angle relative to the road upon which the dashcam vehicle is travelling. (There is also a clump of trees to the left where there is now a building unless the depth of field is deceptive.)

As others have mentioned, to impact the building where it did, it would have deviated about 30 degrees to the runway centreline assuming the deviation commenced a few hundred metres before the runway intersection. The impact scars on the top of the building seem to indicate that the aircraft's trajectory is consistent with that.

The road on which the vehicle is travelling is no more than 10 or 15 degrees different to the projected flightpath. How then does the aircraft appear to be at or near right angles to the road and wings level, even with significant yaw occurring?

Again as someone mentioned a few pages back, one video source suggested that the roof of the building had what appeared to be slashes through the steel that suggested it had been cut by a rotating, forward moving propellor. These were to the left of the initial impact damage possibly indicating that the left propellor was still rotating. It's possible that it could have been caused by the right propellor but not if the aircraft impacted close to wings level.

None of this is in any way definitive, just my observations of a tragic accident that always seems to have greater impact when it involves one of our fellow aviators - even those we don't know personally.

RIP Gentlemen.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 03:58
  #219 (permalink)  
 
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This video clearly shows them down
Looks to me he lowered the gear just prior to it disappearing from camera view. A recommendation on some types to attenuate some of the crash energy, relatively open fields though, not building roofs.
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Old 22nd Feb 2017, 03:58
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Rumour is that there was a fairly high crane working on or near the Freeway which may have aggravated the situation however I haven't spotted this in any of the video - not that I was looking for a crane
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