Mallard Down in Perth
Joined: May 2002
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From: Next door to the neighbor from hell, who believes in chemtrails!
Joined: Dec 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Branxton NSW2335
Everone loses
Turning was lesson five in the syllabus when I taught flying.
I hope you young instructors can show the clips to your students.
My condolences to the family and friends of the departed.
Another sad day for flying.
I hope you young instructors can show the clips to your students.
My condolences to the family and friends of the departed.
Another sad day for flying.
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: west in australia
Some older vids of the plane.. certainly well decked out inside. Obviously, there Was a cockpit camera mounted inside at some stage, maybe they'll find one.
https://www.youtube.com/user/PedroMa...view=0&sort=dd
https://www.youtube.com/user/PedroMa...view=0&sort=dd
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Secret base in Hoth...
A tragic event for the victims and for all who witnessed it on the day. No doubt something they will all never forget.
For airshows and the like, one would have thought it would be limited to essential crew only. Not too sure if the PIC's partner was part of the crew or just tagging along as a passenger?
For airshows and the like, one would have thought it would be limited to essential crew only. Not too sure if the PIC's partner was part of the crew or just tagging along as a passenger?
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Australia
Why bother with an investigation when local "expert" GT already has the answers, eg he "may have perceived a threat from another plane and put the plane into a steep turn to avoid a potential collision" 
RIP
RIP
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,893
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From: Oz
Was skeptical of the above GT sarcasm but nope he did say it.
Perth Australia Day plane crash: Seaplane ?stalled before crash? | Perth Now
Perth Australia Day plane crash: Seaplane ?stalled before crash? | Perth Now
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From: on the beach :-)
Avoid imitations
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
From photographic and video evidence it does appear that the aircraft stalled in the turn to the left and an attempt was made to recover with use of aileron.
Obviously, not many have experienced stalling in the turn in a Grumman Mallard. I wonder how the type handles in those circumstances.
Obviously, not many have experienced stalling in the turn in a Grumman Mallard. I wonder how the type handles in those circumstances.
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: Wellington,NZ
Originally Posted by ShyTorque
Obviously, not many have experienced stalling in the turn in a Grumman Mallard. I wonder how the type handles in those circumstances.
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Australia
Low level turn with a fair bit of downwind in a very heavy draggy piston radial twin in +40 degree temperatures isn't a good thing for performance. Haven't done the figures, however at a guess the pressure altitude would be at least 3000 feet! Couple that with any kind of substantial downwind below 500 feet in a low level turn will always result in something nasty.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Back home again after another fantastic time in Japan; once again back to the 'real world' and continuing the seemingly never ending search for a bad bottle of Red.
It would appear to roll further into the turn while rapidly increasing its descent.
Duck Pilot; Well said.
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Australia
Thanks Pinky!!! I'm no flying instructor, but I know a lot about aircraft performance thanks to my 15 years flying in PNG. I've nearly killed myself at least 5 times that I can remember in Twin Otters and in one particular Bandit due to my lack of knowledge that come from inexperience.
Lots of lessons to be learnt from this very tragic accident.
Lots of lessons to be learnt from this very tragic accident.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49
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From: australia
Red bull air race
Similar situation with downwind sea breeze in a steep turn.
Density altitude is ISA plus 27 degrees is well over 3000feet.
Even without external events, not known, ie engine fail or traffic or birds etc and trying to comply with restrictive boundary limitations.
The Reason "Swiss cheese model" aligned a few holes.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6rR68OIpcX4
Similar situation with downwind sea breeze in a steep turn.
Density altitude is ISA plus 27 degrees is well over 3000feet.
Even without external events, not known, ie engine fail or traffic or birds etc and trying to comply with restrictive boundary limitations.
The Reason "Swiss cheese model" aligned a few holes.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6rR68OIpcX4
Last edited by nose,cabin; 27th January 2017 at 11:03. Reason: Typo
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Sydney
There is a difference between 'gusty conditions' and 'turning downwind'. Turning 'downwind' in a constant airmass with a fixed angle of bank is going to have the same performance impact as turning with the same angle of bank in a non-moving airmass. The ground track will, however, be different. Perception of groundtrack can cause a pilot to over-bank when turning downwind, causing problems. This is different from the mis-conception that you will 'lose airspeed turning downwind'.
Reminded me of the 1994 B52 crash due to nose drop in a steep turn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=182AepOJjMs
Reminded me of the 1994 B52 crash due to nose drop in a steep turn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=182AepOJjMs
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Hollister, Hilo, Pago Pago, Norfolk Is., Brisbane, depending which day of the week it is...
Avation writer Geoffrey Thomas said the crash appeared to have been the result of what he described as a “classic stall” which occurred when the pilot made a sharp left turn at speed that was too slow.
“It appears to be a stall, where there is not enough airspeed over the wings to support the plane or the air over the wings has been disturbed and the lift is destroyed,” Thomas said.
“It appears to be a stall, where there is not enough airspeed over the wings to support the plane or the air over the wings has been disturbed and the lift is destroyed,” Thomas said.
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: australia
"Turning 'downwind' in a constant airmass with a fixed angle of bank is going to have the same performance impact as turning with the same angle of bank in a non-moving airmass"
Please consider this as I have witnessed this many times. Ie holding in very strong winds.
I reduced angle of bank to prevent excessive IAS loss.
Ground speed heading west is IAS minus wind. ( the Perth Westerly, sea breeze can be quite strong in high temperature days)
Ground speed heading east is IAS plus wind.
Inertia must be increased quickly therefore IAS will drop until ground speed equals IAS plus wind.
Sometimes this requires over a 50 knot increase in a short time.
Please consider this as I have witnessed this many times. Ie holding in very strong winds.
I reduced angle of bank to prevent excessive IAS loss.
Ground speed heading west is IAS minus wind. ( the Perth Westerly, sea breeze can be quite strong in high temperature days)
Ground speed heading east is IAS plus wind.
Inertia must be increased quickly therefore IAS will drop until ground speed equals IAS plus wind.
Sometimes this requires over a 50 knot increase in a short time.