Steam Gauges Are Safer..?

[PENKO]

Never mind what you think I will say. If you know the answer to my question then please enlighten us all. Why do airlines and manufacturers not choose the steam gauge format?

[mcgrath50]

Have helped design elements of the A330 and A340 cockpit when seconded to Airbus at Toulouse back in the mid 90s I could tell you why and I could tell you what the process is but you would not believe it except to say that no line pilot, trainer or examiner had a say in it

Would find that interesting GBS so please go ahead

[FGD135]

Why do airlines and manufacturers not choose the steam gauge format?

For the same reason that the manufacturers of glass cockpit avionics continue to produce tape displays - they believe that the tape displays are "industry standard".

Many years ago I did some work with Boeing when they were evaluating PFD displays during the design stage for the 747-400. We had to fly several complicated procedures using various displays - some with tapes and some with round dials. Provided the scaling was right they were all flyable but I much preferred the old round dials, particularly for airspeed.

Thanks Bergerie1. Do you have any recollection of how the senior flight people at Boeing regarded the PFDs? I read somewhere that, following the evaluation (involving you, it seems) of the glass cockpit displays, some of the senior flight people were against proceeding with them, but were overruled by a management that was swayed more by the economic benefits of the displays.

I sure would not like to give up my airspeed trend arrow.

Yes, a wonderful thing, but only necessary with tape displays - which tells you something about the intrinsic inadequacy of tape displays.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
Go back and read the original report, sadly, in this thread, the "headline" has been beaten to death, the real content of the reports has been completely missed.
Colgan Air, AF447 etc. were not caused by "steam gauges" versus "glass".
Tootle pip!!

[PENKO]

The original article basically states (as far is I can discern) that the systems behind electronic instruments are more complex and that general aviation pilots do not understand them, nor have the appropriate mental models ready to tackle any failures. Sounds like a training issue to me.

General Aviation pilots have higher accident rates in technically advanced aircraft whilst the advent of the magenta line has led a dramatic reduction of crashes in professional aviation. Again, it sounds like a training issue to me.

With regard to the off topic ( ) digital vs. analog discussion:
My car has both an analog and a digital speed indication. I refer to both, but in different circumstances. When accuracy is required due to speed limits, cruise control operation and for general speed information, I refer to the digital readout. However when I brake suddenly because of a speed camera, I prefer the angular indication of the analog speed needle. So far I agree with those that state that steam driven round dials have an advantage, however only in certain dynamic circumstances. Life in a modern airline cockpit mostly calls for great accuracy and at other times for instant recognition. A modern PFD is a good compromise between digital and analog representation. It might not be suitable for private pilots who fly once a month though..

[Bergerie1]

FGD135,

Unfortunately I can't answer your question as I do not know how the final decision was made. However, the best instrument for me was the pointer and drum - the pointer for the quick glance out of the corner of the eye and the numerals on the drum for an exact figure when I needed it.

[wanabee777]

Maybe it's just me, but when the winds are gusty on final approach, the speed tape's bouncing around made it difficult for me to ascertain my airspeed because the digits just became a blur.

This is on the 777 and I'm old, so that may explain it.

[ShyTorque]

However when I brake suddenly because of a speed camera

You're joking, I hope....

[PENKO]

You know, around where I live the police have been cautioned by the authorities (!) that they have to suspend their speed camera operation if they notice a traffic jam forming in front of their camera.

Maybe it's just me, but when the winds are gusty on final approach, the speed tape's bouncing around made it difficult for me to ascertain my airspeed because the digits just became a blur.

This is on the 777 and I'm old, so that may explain it.

Maybe it helps not to focus on the digits but on the analog display of the speedbug. The same speedbug that we have been flying around with on non-EFIS aircraft. It's interesting to note that Airbus aircraft do not have this 'nervous' readout of digital airspeed on the PFD.

[runway16]

Steam Gauges

PENKO hit the nail on the head when he commented that pilots who fly once a month, be they private pilots or low time commercial pilots, will probably find it harder to stay current on glass.
Aero clubs and hire aircraft will probably get business if they hold older models of aircraft for hire that have round instruments.
On another drift pilots who train on glass and then go into the general aviation work area, not airlines, may have to go back to flight school to get some experience with round gauges because that is what the older aircraft are still using.

[Capn Bloggs]

I had a laugh when I did my glass-panel wonder-jet CBT: "the flight instruments are arranged in the classic T pattern" the nice man said. My @rse!