Weather CAMS - CASA has no interest?

[Dick Smith]

I wrote to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority a while back suggesting they fund – it wouldn’t cost too much, weather CAMS at places like Kilmore Gap, Mittagong, Mount Victoria and other places where safety could be improved.

I’ve recently noted in an article the following,

“The FAA’s own data from Alaska shows that a federally funded system of 221 aviation weather cameras installed there since 1999 have become a critical aid to flight planning and have enhanced safety.

A 2012 FAA survey of Alaska, Part 135 operators concluded that weather CAM data has become an integral part of flight planning and go, no go decision making.

The NTSB credits them for contributing to a 53% reduction in weather related aviation accidents between 2008 and 2011. The cameras have also helped cut unnecessary flight hours due to unreliability of weather information by 64%.”

If you’re interested I suggest you have a look at this FAA site. The Loop provision is particularly good Also if you click on one of the pics the clear day image is shown for comparison FAA Aviation Weather Cameras - Home

As you will note, this site covers the AV CAMS in Alaska. They are incredibly fantastic. I wonder if there had been AV CAMS at Lockhart River showing that the weather was clear to the east, whether we would have had that unnecessary accident.

[Kelly Slater]

Just found Sarah Palin with a gun and a moose on St. Lawrence Island, more than enough detail to be invaluable to flight planning. This type of camera definitely has a place in Australian Aviation, just needs someone to fund it.

[peterc005]

The problem is who would have responsibility (and liability) for the web cams - CASA, Air Services, the airfield operator, BoM?

Some airfields already have cams:

Bendigo Aviation Services

There is also a website that aggregates the airfield cameras:

Bendigo Airport Webcam « Airport Webcams.net

[spinex]

Sounds like a worthwhile initiative. I've used privately funded webcams popular with stormchasers and others with a weather interest for some time now, eg to see what the cloud is doing at Cunninghams Gap and how it has developed over the past few hours. More reliable too than phoning your mate with a farm nearby too, as I've found before now

[Slippery_Pete]

The problem is who would have responsibility (and liability) for the web cams - CASA, Air Services, the airfield operator, BoM?

Not a personal attack peterc005 ... However;

This attitude epitomises what is wrong with aviation in this country. Everyone is so busy trying to wipe their hands of any and every legal responsibility, we'll go to the lengths of not installing a great safety aid so no-one can get sued.

It's what is wrong with CASA - and it's what's wrong with Airservices.

When liability alone drives every decision, no-one has time to worry about safety.

[Ixixly]

Excellent Idea, I worked in Vanuatu for a few years and they had some excellent Webcams set up on the main island which were absolutely invaluable and seeing as how the vast majority of our flights were either leaving there or going there they helped us immensely.

I don't think liability would be an issue with the cameras would there? They're either there or not, they're provided as an "Aid" so no one should be able to sue if they were not available, but there would have to be someone responsible for looking after them of course.

[Ultralights]

the Katoomba Skyway has a decent webcam setup, and also, the Bathurst Aero club.

[josephfeatherweight]

The problem is who would have responsibility (and liability) for the web cams - CASA, Air Services, the airfield operator, BoM?

I agree wholeheartedly with Slippery_Pete - and, also, not an attack on peterc005, but this is the problem with the WHOLE COUNTRY!

[Acrosport II]

Not a personal attack peterc005 ... However;

This attitude epitomises what is wrong with aviation in this country. Everyone is so busy trying to wipe their hands of any and every legal responsibility, we'll go to the lengths of not installing a great safety aid so no-one can get sued.

It's what is wrong with CASA - and it's what's wrong with Airservices.

When liability alone drives every decision, no-one has time to worry about safety.

Its not just a problem with CASA or Air Services, Its a problem with Australia.

Something we inherited from the US of A while trying so hard to be like them.

Only winners are the lawyers and judges, who end up multi millionaires at others expense. Everyone else just has to wear the huge cost to the country they have created.
Only solution would be some sort of legislation 'Controlling' it.

Case in point, My sons school asked for Parents to offer to set up their own little (Stall), a 3m x 3m Gazebo at the School Fete to raise money. If you did though, YOU (every stall individually) had to buy $3 Million worth of 'Public Liability' Insurance for the day.

Every time my Son has a sports day (or anything), they send a form I have to sign absolving them of any care or responsibility for my child and me agreeing to pay All costs should something happen. (Schools do not have insurance).

NZ probably has more reasonably sized Airshows each year than Aus, even though they are 1/6 of the population.

Whos the real leaders here!

Bloody Ridiculous.

Change the Law, Stop this rot.

[no_one]

Something we inherited from the US of A while trying so hard to be like them.

Did you not see the top post. They are doing it in the USA!!!! How come they can solve the liability thing but we cant?

[4forward8back]

Fantastic (and surely cheap) idea to improve safety. I regularly use the Port of Melbourne cams to asses the weather.

[lilflyboy262...2]

Canada has them too at a lot of remote ports.
Used them daily and they were invaluable in flight planning. I can't believe that with today's cheap mobile data that they cant be installed.
Webcam + 3G. Can't cost anymore than $10 a month to run.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I wonder if there had been AV CAMS at Lockhart River showing that the weather was clear to the east, whether we would have had that unnecessary accident.

Dick, its a shame to "cloud" I wonder if there had been AV CAMS at Lockhart River showing that the weather was clear to the east, whether we would have had that unnecessary accident. ardon the pun!) the argument for weather cams with a comment like that! If the crew had flown the Lockhart R approach as it is written, "we would (not) have had that unnecessary accident"!

I have benefited from the weather cams in Alaska. Was booked to fly to a remote fishing lodge a couple of years ago, however, a pre-flight look at the weather cam resulted in a cancelled flight. Next day, we sat on the ground until the weather looked OK, and then off we went for an uneventful flight to our destination.

In the part of the world where I fly, weather cams at Cunninghams Gap, the Brisbane light aircraft lane north, Thorntons Gap west of Townsville etc to name a few would be very useful for VFR pilots.

[Lead Balloon]

What, precisely, are the "liability" issues?

When an AWIS goes U/S, who gets sued?

When a TAF is inaccurate, who gets sued?

[DWB50]

weather cams

An excellent & building site for weather webcams is Weather Forecast & Reports - Long Range & Local | Wunderground | Weather Underground
Not only webcams but more weather stations in various places across the country with live data from personal weather stations which invariably are very accurate these days. I have been feeding wx and image data into this sytem now for almost a year

Also see here: http://www.wunderground.com/wunderma...1&cams=1&pix=0

[Sunfish]

The "safety" in CASAs title is about keeping the Government safe from the consequences of aviating. They have no interest in your or my continued existence whatsoever. Therefore they have no interest in webcams as a safety tool except as a method of obtaining evidence for prosecution. Besides, the military have no use for them.

[mustafagander]

Try Australian Weathercam Network.

[Squawk7700]

Thanks Dick for bringing this up. Many of us have been doing this at our local fields for years and I noticed that OzRunways have incorporated a feed into their app, but I'd never really considered our regulator providing this service. It's a great idea and if you can advise the best person(s) to write to regarding this initiative, please post the details!

PS: that link is amazing there are literally hundreds of cameras on there !
FAA Aviation Weather Cameras - Home

Sunfish - it's clear you had a bad experience with CASA as a young child. Leave that between yourself and CASA, you don't have to bring it up EVERY time those four letters appear on here!

[Arm out the window]

Weather cams - great idea!

Caution Dick's style though (and this is what makes me extremely dubious about what he would do as a politician) - note the headline and the spin.

Headline:

Weather CAMS - CASA has no interest?

(immediately getting people up in arms, bloody CASA, why haven't those bastards acted etc etc)

Spin:

I wrote to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority a while back ... places like Kilmore Gap ... safety could be improved.

Nowhere does he say how long ago, what form these suggestions took, who he wrote to specifically, or what response was received.

No, in his inimitable style he says something to inflame the masses (us) in order to further his own agenda. You watch, there'll probably be an Australian article in due course bringing this up as part of his platform to run for election, or some other personal aim.

Good luck to him in the end, and he's done a hell of a lot that I and many of us would never be able to replicate, but do be aware that just about everything he writes as far as I've seen is manipulative, which annoys the hell out of me.

Why can't sitting or would-be politicians just say it straight for a change?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

I raised this point on another post, but here it is again....

At one of those CASA briefings at JT some time ago, it was made VERY clear by the 'briefing' officer, Miss T Miller, representing CASA, that the ONLY 'approved' source for pilots obtaining weather info, is from Airservices. Period.

This is despite the fact that many area forecasts have (had) the local Met Bureau Tel number on the text and the instructions to ring for an elaboration / explanation.

BUT, we were told....the ONLY approved source is Airservices....

Additionally, I pointed out that in the 'good ole days' of F.S. we would take the various weather info messages direct from the BOM via the printer / computer, and disseminate it 'verbatim'. F.S. being the 'voice' of Airservices at the time.
In the event of a query we would ring BOM direct and clarify any issues,
BUT....as a pilot....the ONLY approved source is Airservices.....

So now, my thoughts must be 'censored' - but suffice it to say, that IF the same 'rationale' prevails, then Airservices is the ONLY.....one who can supply and be 'responsible for' said cameras for a pilot to access for 'approved' weather info(?)

Perhaps the originator of the enquiry could re-direct his enquiry there..??

No cheers, nope, none at all!