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RPL Holder sign Daily Inspection on MR

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RPL Holder sign Daily Inspection on MR

Old 18th Aug 2015, 05:02
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RPL Holder sign Daily Inspection on MR

We understand an RPL holder who has a class 2 or 1 medical can sign the daily inspection on an MR.

Does anybody know the regulation that permits this, and where it restricts an RPL holder with a RAMC - recreational aviation certificate.

In other words RPL Class 1 or 2 able to sign MR ..........RPL with RAMC medical cant sign MR.

Does any one have CAR or CASR references.
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Old 18th Aug 2015, 05:09
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CAR 42ZC(4)(d).
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Old 18th Aug 2015, 06:38
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I might be missing something, but I see no prohibition on RAMC medical holders conducting and certifying daily inspections.

CAR 42ZC refers to licence holders (which includes RPLs), not medicals.

CASR 61.405 states the holder of an RPL can exercise the privileges of the licence with a RAMC if the holder has given a copy to CASA and received acknowledgment and the medical and the acknowledgment are carried.

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Old 18th Aug 2015, 06:55
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And CASR 61.010 defines "pilot licence" to mean any of the following:
(a) an air transport pilot licence;

(b) a commercial pilot licence;

(c) a multi-crew pilot licence;

(d) a private pilot licence;

(e) a recreational pilot licence.
But, alas, that definition is among the definitions "for Part 61". CAR 42ZC isn't in Part 61 (or CASR).

So who knows. Ask three people in CASA and let us know the answers you get.

Given the profound safety implications and complexities of the issue, I would expect there to be numerous relevant instruments, exemptions and MOS provisions.
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Old 18th Aug 2015, 12:04
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If you own the aeroplane you become responsible for the maintenance of that aeroplane as does an operator. If you are responsible for that maintenance one would imagine you have the duty to carry out daily inspections and sign the maintenance release. If you don't own the aeroplane I would caution against writing anything on any maintenance release that you don't have to, especially defects that may cause the owner/operator to have a financial burden brought to the attention of everybody by you. However remember...an aeroplane won't fly without a signed MR. It's a proven scientific wonder. An aeroplane will crash one second after the MR elapses and a wristwatch is acceptable means of measuring time in service.
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Old 18th Aug 2015, 12:40
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About 30 years ago, as holder of an RPPL, I was told that after signing the MR I should add (self only) which presumably meant that I could fly the plane but that the next guy would have to sign his/her own MR.


Does anyone know if this had any legal status then or if it might have legal status now? It might be wise to add (self only) if you have doubts about whether you are legally entitled to sign an MR.
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Old 18th Aug 2015, 12:54
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back 30 years ago an RPPL was a restricted private pilot's licence.
nowadays an RPL is a recreational pilots licence.

a restricted back then was a pilot who had demonstrated competence in flight but hadn't done the cross country navigation training. he or she could do the daily inspection and could sign of the main release.

when the flying instructors perverted the legislation and introduced the GFPT you could no longer sign maintenance releases.

redrppl just read and understand the legislation. stop listening to nonsense.
the (self only) was nonsense.
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Old 18th Aug 2015, 23:54
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About 30 years ago, as holder of an RPPL, I was told that after signing the MR I should add (self only) which presumably meant that I could fly the plane but that the next guy would have to sign his/her own MR.

Does anyone know if this had any legal status then or if it might have legal status now? It might be wise to add (self only) if you have doubts about whether you are legally entitled to sign an MR.
Codswallop, then and now. A daily inspection for a flight in circles is the same as a daily inspection for a flight in straight lines.

Which means at least someone will come out of the woodwork and argue that it was or is a requirement.

BTW, the correct question is not: "Who can sign the daily inspection on an MR?"

The correct question is: "Who may carry out the maintenance constituted by a daily inspection?" The answer to that question, in relation to Class B aircraft and pilots, is in CAR 42ZC(4)(d).

Anyone who carries out any maintenance is automatically obliged, under CAR 42ZE, to certify completion of that maintenance.

To emphasise the point: assume someone who is not authorised to carry out a daily inspection nonetheless does the inspection and certifies the MR accordingly. The person has complied with CAR 42ZE. (But, alas, the person is in breach of section 20AB(2) of the Act.)

Last edited by Lead Balloon; 19th Aug 2015 at 01:59.
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Old 19th Aug 2015, 06:27
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Yesterday was doing some flying with a stude who got an RPL at another organisation - and had been told the she was only allowed to use this licence to fly in the training area. Never mind the fact that she is "qualified" to do more than that, but had big chunks of the competency standards in the MOS not covered at all.

I asked her to interpret the MR for me and who should sign it and was told "When I was training I would do the walk-around then the instructor would then jump in and sign the MR because he was the pilot in command and that is who signs it"

I pulled out CASA Sched 5, 42ZC and E, as referenced in the red writing on the MR, the MOS etc. First time this stude had seen any of it. Whats the use of having these references if the student will answer "yes but my instructor told me..." and takes that as gospel. Does the instructor know they are telling the student the wrong information, or do they think it is gospel too, because thier instructor told them the same thing? I think I know the answer to that....

Seems some organisations are doing a GFPT and calling it an RPL.. they are NOT the same thing
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Old 19th Aug 2015, 11:28
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The other red herring in this, is if the aircraft is utilised at a training school.
ALL of the schools I have flown with have insisted that for training flights, the MR shall be signed by an instructor.

I have seen it many times, where the aircraft has been signed out and flown by a PPL/CPL, and the MR is then re-signed for the subsequent training flights by instructors.

I'd assume this is more insurance/Ops Manual dictated?
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