ATPL conversion to NZ CAA ATPL
Thread Starter
ATPL conversion to NZ CAA ATPL
Hey All,
I posted this down in the flight training forum but I'm still VERY new to this site and don't know where is the best sub-forum to cast this kind of question to the crowd. I saw some folks had done it here before so I figured I'd re-post these questions about license conversation here. Thanks.
I am an American 121 pilot who has recently married to a New Zealander and we're trying to make a decision on whether or not to pursue flying down in NZ.
I hold a FAA ATPL and have accrued nearly 5000 hours of 121 flight time over the last 10 years. All of my flight time has been in the right seat of a Regional Jet however. (NO PIC TURBINE) My kiwi wife and I have talked off and on the past 12 months about the potential of moving my career to NZ and having just come back from NZ earlier this year and meeting a few pilots I decided it’s time to really look into this:
I've gotten myself familiar with the Flight Crew Recognition PDF file: http://www.caa.govt.nz/pilots/Flight...ition_Info.pdf
I meet the hour requirement of 1000 hours of co-pilot in multi crew operations in multi engine aircraft on commercial IFR operations since my ATPL was issued. (I have ZERO FAR 121 PIC turbine time however!)
This form also says that the applicant must meet the minimum flight experience requirements as prescribed in AC61-7:
Looking at AC61-7 I have a couple questions in bold about whether or not I meet the various hourly requirements including:
250 hours in aeroplanes as PIC including 100 hours of cross-country navigation of which 25 hours is to have been at night. Does General Aviation PIC count toward this? If so, I have 600+ hours of PIC in reciprocating single and twin General Aviation aircraft.
250 hours in aeroplanes consisting of 150 hours or more are PIC and additional command practice flight time as required. Does any of my GA PIC or SIC time at a 121 carrier qualify as “command time?”
100 hours of cross-country navigation of which 25 hours is to have been at night. 50 hours of night cross-country navigation time command practice meets this 25 hours night cross-country requirement. How can I satisfy this? Does any of my SIC time at a 121 carrier qualify as “command time?”
I’ve got the 200 Hours of co-pilot time (4500+ actually) in an aeroplane required to be operated with a co-pilot.
Got the 100 hour Night Time requirement. (1000+ hours)
Instrument requirement of 75 hours is met. I have 100+ hours of solid instrument logged.
This concludes the Total Flight Time Experience requirement for the ATPL flight time experience requirement.
Next on the Flight Crew Recognition PDF in step 2 it says that when the ASL has been confirmed I will have to do a Med Class 1 certificate, pass the NZ ATPL Air Law exam and then a ATPL flight test with a CAA or approved Flight examiner. Questions:
Do I need to come to NZ to get the Med Class1 certificate? If so, who in Auckland can administer the medical exam?
For taking the NZ ATPL Air Law exam I looked at AC61-7. This Advisory Circular is absolutely stuffed with subjects that’ll be tested. Can the Kiwi ATPLs here recommend anything to help me get a grip on the best way to prepare for this exam? Where is it administered? What to expect?
Finally, the Sim ride. Do I just call up Air New Zealand reservations and tell them I want to buy a ticket in the sim? ;-) … No, honestly, how does an American go about setting this up?
Again, I'm a yankee up here looking to explore my career options before my Kiwi wife and I settle long term and raise a family. She’s very keen on coming back to New Zealand and having been down 4 times myself I could definitely get comfortable living in your lovely country.
Any information you can send my way would be greatly appreciated! (And Please excuse my naivety and ignorance. This is entirely new territory for me.)
Many Many Thanks
Get_Involved
If you can answer any question please answer this one: Would having PIC Turbine hours improve my chances of getting hired directly into the jet fleet in NZ? Or is SIC Turbine just as valuable down there?
I posted this down in the flight training forum but I'm still VERY new to this site and don't know where is the best sub-forum to cast this kind of question to the crowd. I saw some folks had done it here before so I figured I'd re-post these questions about license conversation here. Thanks.
I am an American 121 pilot who has recently married to a New Zealander and we're trying to make a decision on whether or not to pursue flying down in NZ.
I hold a FAA ATPL and have accrued nearly 5000 hours of 121 flight time over the last 10 years. All of my flight time has been in the right seat of a Regional Jet however. (NO PIC TURBINE) My kiwi wife and I have talked off and on the past 12 months about the potential of moving my career to NZ and having just come back from NZ earlier this year and meeting a few pilots I decided it’s time to really look into this:
I've gotten myself familiar with the Flight Crew Recognition PDF file: http://www.caa.govt.nz/pilots/Flight...ition_Info.pdf
I meet the hour requirement of 1000 hours of co-pilot in multi crew operations in multi engine aircraft on commercial IFR operations since my ATPL was issued. (I have ZERO FAR 121 PIC turbine time however!)
This form also says that the applicant must meet the minimum flight experience requirements as prescribed in AC61-7:
Looking at AC61-7 I have a couple questions in bold about whether or not I meet the various hourly requirements including:
250 hours in aeroplanes as PIC including 100 hours of cross-country navigation of which 25 hours is to have been at night. Does General Aviation PIC count toward this? If so, I have 600+ hours of PIC in reciprocating single and twin General Aviation aircraft.
250 hours in aeroplanes consisting of 150 hours or more are PIC and additional command practice flight time as required. Does any of my GA PIC or SIC time at a 121 carrier qualify as “command time?”
100 hours of cross-country navigation of which 25 hours is to have been at night. 50 hours of night cross-country navigation time command practice meets this 25 hours night cross-country requirement. How can I satisfy this? Does any of my SIC time at a 121 carrier qualify as “command time?”
I’ve got the 200 Hours of co-pilot time (4500+ actually) in an aeroplane required to be operated with a co-pilot.
Got the 100 hour Night Time requirement. (1000+ hours)
Instrument requirement of 75 hours is met. I have 100+ hours of solid instrument logged.
This concludes the Total Flight Time Experience requirement for the ATPL flight time experience requirement.
Next on the Flight Crew Recognition PDF in step 2 it says that when the ASL has been confirmed I will have to do a Med Class 1 certificate, pass the NZ ATPL Air Law exam and then a ATPL flight test with a CAA or approved Flight examiner. Questions:
Do I need to come to NZ to get the Med Class1 certificate? If so, who in Auckland can administer the medical exam?
For taking the NZ ATPL Air Law exam I looked at AC61-7. This Advisory Circular is absolutely stuffed with subjects that’ll be tested. Can the Kiwi ATPLs here recommend anything to help me get a grip on the best way to prepare for this exam? Where is it administered? What to expect?
Finally, the Sim ride. Do I just call up Air New Zealand reservations and tell them I want to buy a ticket in the sim? ;-) … No, honestly, how does an American go about setting this up?
Again, I'm a yankee up here looking to explore my career options before my Kiwi wife and I settle long term and raise a family. She’s very keen on coming back to New Zealand and having been down 4 times myself I could definitely get comfortable living in your lovely country.
Any information you can send my way would be greatly appreciated! (And Please excuse my naivety and ignorance. This is entirely new territory for me.)
Many Many Thanks
Get_Involved
If you can answer any question please answer this one: Would having PIC Turbine hours improve my chances of getting hired directly into the jet fleet in NZ? Or is SIC Turbine just as valuable down there?
I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my knowledge.
To start with though, a question for you; Do you have permanent residency in NZ? Without this you will struggle to find someone willing to employ you. I'm not talking about being able to get it, you need the paper in your hand.
Yes, GA time counts. All that matters is that you were PiC and not under PICUS (command practice etc) or under dual instruction.
IIRC, if you meet this requirement, you do not need to worry about the other two requirements. From memory, there is an important OR included in the AC (I don't have it in front of me).
On the medical side of things, there is a directory of medical examiners on the CAA website under "medical", including some overseas. Find one near you, pay the CAA fee, fill out the paperwork, and you're good to go. Expect to pay well over $500 total for a straightforward medical, once all the fees and charges are accounted for. It could be a lot more as well depending on your circumstances.
There is a book published by waypoints aviation for the law exam. This contains the "raw data" you will need to know for the exam, plus some practice exams. I think there's also an ATPL online course.
As for a sim ride, it would depend on what type of aircraft you are looking to do one on. Best bet is to find the sim, then find out who can arrange it for you, and try to get in touch.
As to what time is best, I'm not really in a position to comment. Air NZ is the largest employer in the country by a large margin, for turboprop and jet operations. Their careers website has their requirements etc. There are other threads running on here about the chances of applicants at the moment. Failing that, there are other operators out there, your best bet would be to phone around and see what they are looking for.
Good luck!
To start with though, a question for you; Do you have permanent residency in NZ? Without this you will struggle to find someone willing to employ you. I'm not talking about being able to get it, you need the paper in your hand.
250 hours in aeroplanes as PIC including 100 hours of cross-country navigation of which 25 hours is to have been at night. Does General Aviation PIC count toward this?
IIRC, if you meet this requirement, you do not need to worry about the other two requirements. From memory, there is an important OR included in the AC (I don't have it in front of me).
On the medical side of things, there is a directory of medical examiners on the CAA website under "medical", including some overseas. Find one near you, pay the CAA fee, fill out the paperwork, and you're good to go. Expect to pay well over $500 total for a straightforward medical, once all the fees and charges are accounted for. It could be a lot more as well depending on your circumstances.
There is a book published by waypoints aviation for the law exam. This contains the "raw data" you will need to know for the exam, plus some practice exams. I think there's also an ATPL online course.
As for a sim ride, it would depend on what type of aircraft you are looking to do one on. Best bet is to find the sim, then find out who can arrange it for you, and try to get in touch.
As to what time is best, I'm not really in a position to comment. Air NZ is the largest employer in the country by a large margin, for turboprop and jet operations. Their careers website has their requirements etc. There are other threads running on here about the chances of applicants at the moment. Failing that, there are other operators out there, your best bet would be to phone around and see what they are looking for.
Good luck!
Thread Starter
I am aware that holding Permanent Residency is a per-requisit to working in NZ. My kiwi wife spoke to NZ immigration on the phone and NZ immigration said I can apply for permanent residency while in the United States and once I enter New Zealand on my next visit the P.R. would become valid (bringing with me forms INZ-1000 and INZ-178)
I checked the CAA website concerning where I can obtain a Medical Class 1 for NZ ATPL application. There is a doc in Scottsdale, AZ. Shouldn't be a problem knocking that off the list -- as long as the requirements will allow for corrective lenses? That is my only limitation on my FAA Class 1 medical certificate.
I will get my hands on the Waypoints Aviation Law Exam study book.
I'm still in the dark about the sim ride. Do they expect the applicants to show up with a type on that aircraft already? Or will the give allowances for flying a sim for an aircraft they've never flown before. For example do ATPL applicants inside of NZ (coming from a Air Nelson DHC-8 lets say) get thrown in a Boeing or Airbus sim for the ATPL checkride and just show they can enter a hold, shoot an ILS, etc without having to know the systems/fine details of that aircraft like you would otherwise be expected to know for a type rating checkride?
I appreciate your input NZScion about job prospects. Can anyone here who works for ANZ, Jetstar, VAustralia comment on whether having PIC TURBINE time before applying would be beneficial? Or will already having an Airbus 320 type improve my odds during the selection process for interviews?I'm locked into a company here where having PIC Turbine could be years down the road. IF PIC Turbine is preferred I should adjust my employment here in the US to get that PIC turbine and quicken myself as an attractive candidate for employment in NZ. Or pour all my efforts into getting a job with JetBlue, Spirit, Virgin America, Frontier, etc to get the Airbus Type along with some SIC hours in the airbus.
THANK YOU for helping me navigate this new territory
(fortybelow: check your PMs)
continue#1: Add Content?
I checked the CAA website concerning where I can obtain a Medical Class 1 for NZ ATPL application. There is a doc in Scottsdale, AZ. Shouldn't be a problem knocking that off the list -- as long as the requirements will allow for corrective lenses? That is my only limitation on my FAA Class 1 medical certificate.
I will get my hands on the Waypoints Aviation Law Exam study book.
I'm still in the dark about the sim ride. Do they expect the applicants to show up with a type on that aircraft already? Or will the give allowances for flying a sim for an aircraft they've never flown before. For example do ATPL applicants inside of NZ (coming from a Air Nelson DHC-8 lets say) get thrown in a Boeing or Airbus sim for the ATPL checkride and just show they can enter a hold, shoot an ILS, etc without having to know the systems/fine details of that aircraft like you would otherwise be expected to know for a type rating checkride?
I appreciate your input NZScion about job prospects. Can anyone here who works for ANZ, Jetstar, VAustralia comment on whether having PIC TURBINE time before applying would be beneficial? Or will already having an Airbus 320 type improve my odds during the selection process for interviews?I'm locked into a company here where having PIC Turbine could be years down the road. IF PIC Turbine is preferred I should adjust my employment here in the US to get that PIC turbine and quicken myself as an attractive candidate for employment in NZ. Or pour all my efforts into getting a job with JetBlue, Spirit, Virgin America, Frontier, etc to get the Airbus Type along with some SIC hours in the airbus.
THANK YOU for helping me navigate this new territory
(fortybelow: check your PMs)
continue#1: Add Content?
Last edited by get_involved; 13th Apr 2015 at 08:59.
You really need to go to the source - send in your paper work to ASL and send an email to the CAA telling them what you want to do...no offence to the very helpful replies but if you are making a big decision like this you need to get it right.
https://www.caa.govt.nz/about_caa/co..._infr_pers.htm
The flight test is a little probmatic in so much you need to be type rated on the aircraft.
AirNZ can do the flight test as can a few other operators - one other option is in a KingAir and there is a Mojave that might be available. Some operators let you hire these types for flight tests but it seems to be on an individual basis.
Have a good look at the Fit & Proper Person requirement - you will probably have to get some documents in the States before you leave to cover that.
It will not be a cheap process.
https://www.caa.govt.nz/about_caa/co..._infr_pers.htm
The flight test is a little probmatic in so much you need to be type rated on the aircraft.
AirNZ can do the flight test as can a few other operators - one other option is in a KingAir and there is a Mojave that might be available. Some operators let you hire these types for flight tests but it seems to be on an individual basis.
Have a good look at the Fit & Proper Person requirement - you will probably have to get some documents in the States before you leave to cover that.
It will not be a cheap process.
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Get involved
You need to go to the source (NZCAA) to properly answer your questions regarding licence conversion. I have helped many pilots over the years pass the ATPL law conversion and now have my notes online at stonybrook.training - check it out when you decide to study for the ATPL Law exam.
note the spelling has changed for the website
You need to go to the source (NZCAA) to properly answer your questions regarding licence conversion. I have helped many pilots over the years pass the ATPL law conversion and now have my notes online at stonybrook.training - check it out when you decide to study for the ATPL Law exam.
note the spelling has changed for the website
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Studying for the ATPL law exam is simple.
Download the syllabus from the CAA website. AC61-7.
All of the questions come from that syllabus.
Answer all of the parts of the syllabus. All of the syllabus comes from the rules and regs that can be found online on the CAA website, or some can be found in the NZ AIPs.
After you have answered all the syllabus, then you have the answers for the questions from the exam. Memorise them and you are good to go.
As for the flight test.... it is super expensive. You will need a type rating on the type of aircraft that you will use for the flight test. That is not cheap.
You are looking at at least $10k for the type rating.
Flight test will also set you back around $10k.
Unless you are looking at a command position straight away, a different approach may be to convert your CPL instead. It is the same story as an ATPL, but you will only have to do a CPL flight test, CPL law (Studied in the same fashion as ATPL), most likely an IFR check ride as well (Not 100% on this, but I don't think it transfers over with the licence)
Then take the time to write your ATPL exams here in NZ while you are working. Air NZ will then help you sit your ATPL when it is time to take a command upgrade.
Download the syllabus from the CAA website. AC61-7.
All of the questions come from that syllabus.
Answer all of the parts of the syllabus. All of the syllabus comes from the rules and regs that can be found online on the CAA website, or some can be found in the NZ AIPs.
After you have answered all the syllabus, then you have the answers for the questions from the exam. Memorise them and you are good to go.
As for the flight test.... it is super expensive. You will need a type rating on the type of aircraft that you will use for the flight test. That is not cheap.
You are looking at at least $10k for the type rating.
Flight test will also set you back around $10k.
Unless you are looking at a command position straight away, a different approach may be to convert your CPL instead. It is the same story as an ATPL, but you will only have to do a CPL flight test, CPL law (Studied in the same fashion as ATPL), most likely an IFR check ride as well (Not 100% on this, but I don't think it transfers over with the licence)
Then take the time to write your ATPL exams here in NZ while you are working. Air NZ will then help you sit your ATPL when it is time to take a command upgrade.
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ATPL flight test
Simulator availability and costs would be much more reasonable in the U.S, so you could enquire ( NZ CAA ) as to the availability of an examiner qualified on your regional jet type and offer to pay their expenses to go to the U.S. And complete the test there?
Alternatively the CPL route may be better and then wait for an employer to conduct the test when a command promotion becomes available. ( hopefully at their expense ).
Alternatively the CPL route may be better and then wait for an employer to conduct the test when a command promotion becomes available. ( hopefully at their expense ).
Thread Starter
Unless you are looking at a command position straight away, a different approach may be to convert your CPL instead. It is the same story as an ATPL, but you will only have to do a CPL flight test, CPL law (Studied in the same fashion as ATPL), most likely an IFR check ride as well (Not 100% on this, but I don't think it transfers over with the licence)
Hmm, so let's get this straight. It's NOT required to show up for an airline job in New Zealand with the NZ ATPL in hand. Rather, it's only required if you are looking for a Command Position .. (in US lingo: street captain?)
https://careers.airnz.co.nz/explore-...coming-a-pilot
According to this pilot guide an individual with the CPL and ATPL written exams passed qualifies for a position in the Jet Fleet at Air New Zealand. It's only when they apply/can hold Captain that they will be trained for and given the ATPL flight test by the company.
So, in theory I can come down to NZ and do a CPL conversion, sit for the written tests for the NZ ATPL and that will satisfy my certification for requirements to apply for First Officer position in the Jet fleet.
Also, can anyone elaborate on what type of simulator(s) are used to conduct the ATPL validation in New Zealand and would a type rating earned in the United States in that aircraft satisfy my requirements to have said Type rating in New Zealand for the test?
Thanks for all this information guys.
First off, don't use Air New Zealand as the benchmark. Aside from the fact that they're not hiring external applicants at the moment, the chances of a non New Zealand national joining from overseas are slim to none unless coming in as a Sim Instructor. Even expats struggle to join the National Carrier. Not sure what things are like over in the States, but it might be akin to me trying to apply direct to AA/United/Delta... or some other Airline that almost entirely hires locals only? It's not impossible, just highly unlikely.
First question. What are you currently flying on in the U.S.?
Is that type in use in NZ and is there a sim there?
If so, do your atpl flight test in that type.
I wouldn't go the CPL route, you already have an ATP and if you go the CPL route you need to do all the ÁTPL exams in NZ - a lot of extra work and expense for no benefit in my opinion.
Get your logbook assessed by ASL to start with and then go from there.
Is that type in use in NZ and is there a sim there?
If so, do your atpl flight test in that type.
I wouldn't go the CPL route, you already have an ATP and if you go the CPL route you need to do all the ÁTPL exams in NZ - a lot of extra work and expense for no benefit in my opinion.
Get your logbook assessed by ASL to start with and then go from there.
The overseas applicant requirement is real simple.
You must have the right to live and work in New Zealand.
You should have a New Zealand CPL/ ATPL and a multi instrument rating prior to the interview but MUST have one before an offer of position can be made. Aussies can interview without the NZ licence but need to complete the TTMRA before being offered a position.
The reason that there are not a lot of foreign nationals applying for Air NZ is that "pilot" does not feature in the criteria for immigrants, so pilots must find another means to meet the Government immigration points system, be it married to a Kiwi or a partner who has meet the New Zealand immigration required points.
The last few courses before the big slow down had a small percentage of foreign nationals from the UK, Aussie and Italy. All good people with average experience.
You must have the right to live and work in New Zealand.
You should have a New Zealand CPL/ ATPL and a multi instrument rating prior to the interview but MUST have one before an offer of position can be made. Aussies can interview without the NZ licence but need to complete the TTMRA before being offered a position.
The reason that there are not a lot of foreign nationals applying for Air NZ is that "pilot" does not feature in the criteria for immigrants, so pilots must find another means to meet the Government immigration points system, be it married to a Kiwi or a partner who has meet the New Zealand immigration required points.
The last few courses before the big slow down had a small percentage of foreign nationals from the UK, Aussie and Italy. All good people with average experience.
Last edited by c100driver; 18th May 2015 at 05:22. Reason: Clarity
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Get Involved, I would recommend applying for an Australian ATPL.
Although the Aussies are implementing a new Part 61 I believe it is still possible to have your FAA ATPL converted to an CASA ATPL by doing an IR exam, ATPL Law and an ATPL flight test which can be in a light twin.
Following this apply for a NZ ATPL using TTMRA....google this to see what this means....if and when you obtain NZ PR.
Although the Aussies are implementing a new Part 61 I believe it is still possible to have your FAA ATPL converted to an CASA ATPL by doing an IR exam, ATPL Law and an ATPL flight test which can be in a light twin.
Following this apply for a NZ ATPL using TTMRA....google this to see what this means....if and when you obtain NZ PR.
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Sent a Pm get_incolved
I'm in the same boat. Regional FO in the states flying the CRJ with an Faa ATPL married to a kiwi. Trying to see if I can get on there in Akl somewhere. The sim test portion seems the most difficult part to figure out. Any help by any kiwis would be great. Thanks guys!
I'm in the same boat. Regional FO in the states flying the CRJ with an Faa ATPL married to a kiwi. Trying to see if I can get on there in Akl somewhere. The sim test portion seems the most difficult part to figure out. Any help by any kiwis would be great. Thanks guys!
