Interesting article regarding mental health
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 51
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mach E.
Part 1..your 4 points..totally agree!!! my cockpit visit on my first flight ever to the deck of a 727-200LR as a 10 year old, fueled my passion for aviation. That visit is as clear to me today, as if it happened yesterday...Can still see the captain with his wizz wheel out converting knots to Kmh for me to better understand.
Part 2. Employer input into depression management. Not convinced that the employer has any further role beyond Compassion and Support.
From an employers position, your role is no different to if the employee suffered from Alcaholism. This is a really grey area, and I am watching with interest my fathers case. He is unable to work, and works for a company that is self insured....he's actually unable to complete most normal tasks...incl wiping his A!. As the company is self insured, he is required to front each day for light duties. Those duties include completing any new computer based training modules that come up, and simply being present....A clear case of a company fueling depression....really don't know where to go with it.
Part 3. As someone who HAS gone through it, i'll be short and sweet. You have no fuggin idea, and are only espousing words from the media...shut up!
And yes I AM drawing on personal experience!
Happy easter to you and family.
Jas
Part 1..your 4 points..totally agree!!! my cockpit visit on my first flight ever to the deck of a 727-200LR as a 10 year old, fueled my passion for aviation. That visit is as clear to me today, as if it happened yesterday...Can still see the captain with his wizz wheel out converting knots to Kmh for me to better understand.
Part 2. Employer input into depression management. Not convinced that the employer has any further role beyond Compassion and Support.
From an employers position, your role is no different to if the employee suffered from Alcaholism. This is a really grey area, and I am watching with interest my fathers case. He is unable to work, and works for a company that is self insured....he's actually unable to complete most normal tasks...incl wiping his A!. As the company is self insured, he is required to front each day for light duties. Those duties include completing any new computer based training modules that come up, and simply being present....A clear case of a company fueling depression....really don't know where to go with it.
Part 3. As someone who HAS gone through it, i'll be short and sweet. You have no fuggin idea, and are only espousing words from the media...shut up!
And yes I AM drawing on personal experience!
Happy easter to you and family.
Jas
Jas, how do you know that I "have no fuggin' idea"? In the past my responsibilities included dealing with pilots who displayed various problems - from booze, to dope to belting their wives. In an expatriate situation with people living in a close community all of these behaviours pose difficulties for a Chief Pilot tasked variously with safety, standards, pilot discipline and general aircrew welfare.
While we did our best to be compassionate, and after a first offence did usually offer them time out to resolve their issues, it was not our place as an employer to lay on rehabilitation services (not available in-country) or to provide an opportunity for them to re-offend within our company or community. We did refer one guy with a booze problem to a counselling service in his home country, but he never attended. So, we terminated his employment. And when another did a Jeremy Clarkson, he was on the next flight out - for his own protection in a culture where revenge was commonplace.
Having seen them off, did we then have a responsibility to track them in their future aviation careers? I think not, and indeed to attempt to do so would probably be highly illegal. One of our former pilots went on to commit suicide some time after he left us; another had an accident which totalled the airframe, fortunately with no serious injuries. Could we have somehow contributed to either of these events which occurred several years later? We knew one had a drinking problem and the other had anger issues, that was all. We had no idea the suicidal guy was also into hard drugs. Except for going on an occasional bender, he seemed so 'normal' - lovely wife, great flying skills, handsome, funny - the epitome of a pilot.
Now we are more aware of the 'black dog' and know that it is more common than we realised in the past. But, say a pilot confides to his shrink that he is depressed to the point of being suicidal. Can the shrink - should the shrink - report it to the authorities in order to have the pilot grounded pending treatment? Patient-doctor confidentiality protocols probably say not. In some countries if someone has a serious STD, it is a mandatory report. In the same countries, mental issues are not likely to go beyond the consulting room. Unless it is a pilot disclosing to his aviation examiner, and that is unlikely, given the possible repercussions once the regulator becomes involved. In any case, a mental problem does not of itself always lead to criminal acts. In fact most people with mental illness are still very law abiding - fortunately!
But mentally disturbed or not, if adults commit violent crimes, they ARE responsible! Who else? The only other people sometimes jointly responsible are the judiciary and parole boards who turn serial offenders loose on the rest of us. Don't get me started on how I would like to see some of those do gooders held accountable.....But that is a separate issue to the one being debated here.
How could the CEO of an airline employing thousands of people be expected to know that one pilot was planning a mass murder, if even the guy's shrink did not pick it?
While we did our best to be compassionate, and after a first offence did usually offer them time out to resolve their issues, it was not our place as an employer to lay on rehabilitation services (not available in-country) or to provide an opportunity for them to re-offend within our company or community. We did refer one guy with a booze problem to a counselling service in his home country, but he never attended. So, we terminated his employment. And when another did a Jeremy Clarkson, he was on the next flight out - for his own protection in a culture where revenge was commonplace.
Having seen them off, did we then have a responsibility to track them in their future aviation careers? I think not, and indeed to attempt to do so would probably be highly illegal. One of our former pilots went on to commit suicide some time after he left us; another had an accident which totalled the airframe, fortunately with no serious injuries. Could we have somehow contributed to either of these events which occurred several years later? We knew one had a drinking problem and the other had anger issues, that was all. We had no idea the suicidal guy was also into hard drugs. Except for going on an occasional bender, he seemed so 'normal' - lovely wife, great flying skills, handsome, funny - the epitome of a pilot.
Now we are more aware of the 'black dog' and know that it is more common than we realised in the past. But, say a pilot confides to his shrink that he is depressed to the point of being suicidal. Can the shrink - should the shrink - report it to the authorities in order to have the pilot grounded pending treatment? Patient-doctor confidentiality protocols probably say not. In some countries if someone has a serious STD, it is a mandatory report. In the same countries, mental issues are not likely to go beyond the consulting room. Unless it is a pilot disclosing to his aviation examiner, and that is unlikely, given the possible repercussions once the regulator becomes involved. In any case, a mental problem does not of itself always lead to criminal acts. In fact most people with mental illness are still very law abiding - fortunately!
But mentally disturbed or not, if adults commit violent crimes, they ARE responsible! Who else? The only other people sometimes jointly responsible are the judiciary and parole boards who turn serial offenders loose on the rest of us. Don't get me started on how I would like to see some of those do gooders held accountable.....But that is a separate issue to the one being debated here.
How could the CEO of an airline employing thousands of people be expected to know that one pilot was planning a mass murder, if even the guy's shrink did not pick it?
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 2nd Apr 2015 at 07:25.
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
I recently put my hand up for some help, used the company's counselor, it helped. Then went and got some private assistance as well, took some time off flying. Now i'm better, itching to get recurrent, have been applauded by my DAME; not so much the company as they had an oldskool understanding.
People just go through rough patches in their lives, we are human that makes us amazing at what we do, but it also makes us the biggest threat to safety. A pilot getting help is much much much safer than one avoiding the issues. They need to encourage responsibility...
Do the old BIG PICTURE check of the industry;
1. Shift work
2. Stressful - Checks, performance, environmental
3. Hot
4. Isolated
5. Confined work space
Be a man or a woman, talk to someone about your problems.
I recently put my hand up for some help, used the company's counselor, it helped. Then went and got some private assistance as well, took some time off flying. Now i'm better, itching to get recurrent, have been applauded by my DAME; not so much the company as they had an oldskool understanding.
People just go through rough patches in their lives, we are human that makes us amazing at what we do, but it also makes us the biggest threat to safety. A pilot getting help is much much much safer than one avoiding the issues. They need to encourage responsibility...
Do the old BIG PICTURE check of the industry;
1. Shift work
2. Stressful - Checks, performance, environmental
3. Hot
4. Isolated
5. Confined work space
Be a man or a woman, talk to someone about your problems.
Last edited by BushPahlot; 6th Apr 2015 at 07:14. Reason: sexism
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 51
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mach E,
Firstly I'd like to sincerely apologise for the tone and choice of words I used the other night. Unfortunatley I have had no internet access to do so until now. (bush holiday where NOTHING works).
The comment that got my ire up was specifically..
I'll say it in simple terms to avoid confusion....its basically a chain of events, in different scenarios
A.
Abused, get over it and go through life with no problems.
B.
Abused, report to police, get a conviction, and go on your way 'happy'
C.
Abused, get part way through your life and decide its what's driving your negativity and seek a conviction, go on your way 'happy'
D. Abused, not care and continue the cycle.
B and C are almost as high a risk as D in continuing the cycle, for a very simple reason.
There is ZERO help available from the Government. Sure you might be lucky enough to get a payout which you will spend on whatever, maybe go see a few shrinks, but there are no programs for the Victims to aid in breaking the cycle.
The only way to get onto a government program dealing with these issues, is to be convicted
What many do not realise, is that many abusers, talk to the kids about their friends, and the line 'sure ALL boys are interested' is still fresh in my mind as if it were yesterday...30 years later.
Enjoy.
Jas
Firstly I'd like to sincerely apologise for the tone and choice of words I used the other night. Unfortunatley I have had no internet access to do so until now. (bush holiday where NOTHING works).
The comment that got my ire up was specifically..
The old bull**** that if you are abused as a child, you are partially excused for abusing children
A.
Abused, get over it and go through life with no problems.
B.
Abused, report to police, get a conviction, and go on your way 'happy'
C.
Abused, get part way through your life and decide its what's driving your negativity and seek a conviction, go on your way 'happy'
D. Abused, not care and continue the cycle.
B and C are almost as high a risk as D in continuing the cycle, for a very simple reason.
There is ZERO help available from the Government. Sure you might be lucky enough to get a payout which you will spend on whatever, maybe go see a few shrinks, but there are no programs for the Victims to aid in breaking the cycle.
The only way to get onto a government program dealing with these issues, is to be convicted
What many do not realise, is that many abusers, talk to the kids about their friends, and the line 'sure ALL boys are interested' is still fresh in my mind as if it were yesterday...30 years later.
Enjoy.
Jas
