The Empire Strikes Back! on Colour Defective Pilots
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Why are the pilot representative bodies (unions) silent on this issue? Surely there are paid up members looking to further their airline career that are affected by this, and surely that is an issue that should be looked into. Or is it only the employers who gain their attention?
And oh the irony... CASA wants to be a fast follower, not leader. Well how do they explain the ADSB rollout. And only a week or two back Skidmore was telling us Part 61 would be praised and followed by other nations.
Seems to me it is fine to be a leader when it suits, and when not, duck and hide.
At some point, as a group, pilots need to say enough is enough with the rubbish we are being forced to absorb! Not just GA, but all pilots.
And oh the irony... CASA wants to be a fast follower, not leader. Well how do they explain the ADSB rollout. And only a week or two back Skidmore was telling us Part 61 would be praised and followed by other nations.
Seems to me it is fine to be a leader when it suits, and when not, duck and hide.
At some point, as a group, pilots need to say enough is enough with the rubbish we are being forced to absorb! Not just GA, but all pilots.
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To CAD or not to CAD?
So I have an FAA (H)PPL, failed ishihara and passed control tower signal light.
I want to commence CPL here in Australia and failed FALANT.
Do I pay for the pointless CAD test which I have a chance of passing (my deficiency is very mild deutan) or do I wait a while.
I even asked them to issue the licence with restrictions with a view to see what happens or take the test at a later date so I could get the medical and commence flight training but they refused.
I want to commence CPL here in Australia and failed FALANT.
Do I pay for the pointless CAD test which I have a chance of passing (my deficiency is very mild deutan) or do I wait a while.
I even asked them to issue the licence with restrictions with a view to see what happens or take the test at a later date so I could get the medical and commence flight training but they refused.
Great first post!
My advice is to just relax and wait until someone else has fought the fight for you. Could take a few years and burn some people's treasure and blood, so best not to get involved.
My advice is to just relax and wait until someone else has fought the fight for you. Could take a few years and burn some people's treasure and blood, so best not to get involved.
And CASA issues the pieces of paper and knows that most people in the aviation community don't have the necessary mixture of courage, time and money to have a fight.
So pmf1977 needs either to gather up the necessary mixture of courage, time and money to have a fight, or cop whatever CASA cares to do to him until others can do so. It's that simple.
So pmf1977 needs either to gather up the necessary mixture of courage, time and money to have a fight, or cop whatever CASA cares to do to him until others can do so. It's that simple.
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Pmf1977,
If you passed the Australian tower light signal test then you passed the colour vision testing at the time when it was accepted. Many did and are flying commercially. Was it the FAA test light test you passed?
Oow
If you passed the Australian tower light signal test then you passed the colour vision testing at the time when it was accepted. Many did and are flying commercially. Was it the FAA test light test you passed?
Oow
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FAA PPL
I did my PPL in Florida, failed the ishihara and had to do a tower light signal test in the states to get a night flying restriction removed from my licence.
Last edited by pmf1977; 30th Jul 2015 at 22:30.
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The Empire Strikes Back! on Colour Defective Pilots
Apologies if it has already been covered, has anyone had anything to do with the Enchroma glasses?
I realize that you can't be certified from their use, but I'm curious as to whether anyone has worn a pair of the glasses, and whether there is a difference.
I realize that you can't be certified from their use, but I'm curious as to whether anyone has worn a pair of the glasses, and whether there is a difference.
Glasses.
QFBUSBOY, yeah I've tried a paid on. They are strange as they tint the whole world a magenta like colour if my memory serves me correctly. (It most likely will not). The colours of the world do change, and it does have the desired effect, ignoring the colours changing it's almost like you're wearing tinted glasses.
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The Empire Strikes Back! on Colour Defective Pilots
Thanks for the feedback. That's quite interesting. Hopefully it allows guys a chance to see the world abit differently to what they do now.
Hello all,
I am 18 years old and would love to become a Pilot but since around 5 i have been told that it won't happen as i am CVD, it's in my family and i fail all the ishihara plates. I have completed one TIF Flight recently and loved it.
What i want to know if what are the steps to attempt to gain a class one medical? I would like to do it before i start any training and also have the option to apply to cadet programs.
Is my best bet to go to a DAME, fail the ishihara plates then be referred to somewhere like Australian College of Optometry that has the lantern tests etc? If i fail them what are my options/how do i get a Aviation Signal Light Test?
Thanks for all your help - especially those who have supported CVD pilots in the past.
I am 18 years old and would love to become a Pilot but since around 5 i have been told that it won't happen as i am CVD, it's in my family and i fail all the ishihara plates. I have completed one TIF Flight recently and loved it.
What i want to know if what are the steps to attempt to gain a class one medical? I would like to do it before i start any training and also have the option to apply to cadet programs.
Is my best bet to go to a DAME, fail the ishihara plates then be referred to somewhere like Australian College of Optometry that has the lantern tests etc? If i fail them what are my options/how do i get a Aviation Signal Light Test?
Thanks for all your help - especially those who have supported CVD pilots in the past.
Logansi,
In the first instance talk to Dr. Arthur Pape, in Geelong. He is the best person to talk to. You will find him in the phone book.
Please, in your own interests, talk to him before you talk to anybody else.
Tootle pip!!
In the first instance talk to Dr. Arthur Pape, in Geelong. He is the best person to talk to. You will find him in the phone book.
Please, in your own interests, talk to him before you talk to anybody else.
Tootle pip!!
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Question posed at the Mildura forum held on 30 July
From CASA document:
Q. Why did I have to redo a medical report which my GP could have done, saving the expense and time of traveling to a DAME in a regional centre?
A. CASA cannot comment on individual cases. However, there is a misunderstanding within the industry of the purpose of specialist opinions. Most specialists prescribe a treatment because it improves the patient’s outlook and their reports often reflect this, but CASA requires a risk assessment which involves different questions and investigations. Risk assessment is different to clinical care.
DAME opinions are always valued, but few DAMEs have formal qualifications in aviation medicine. CASA doctors have an advantage in that they have the relevant postgraduate and occupational medicine qualifications, and as the regulator, must make the final decision.
The cost of tests is outside CASA’s control. Applicants frequently supply results of inappropriate tests and you are encouraged to liaise with Avmed beforehand to avoid this problem.
In terms of delays, the median response time is 7–9 days where all the information is complete, but 37 days where it is not. The electronic application process will further reduce delays and ensure complete information is provided before an application can be submitted.
Following recent dialogue with the sport aviation organisations, CASA is actively sourcing material to improve their understanding of medical and regulatory issues.
A. CASA cannot comment on individual cases. However, there is a misunderstanding within the industry of the purpose of specialist opinions. Most specialists prescribe a treatment because it improves the patient’s outlook and their reports often reflect this, but CASA requires a risk assessment which involves different questions and investigations. Risk assessment is different to clinical care.
DAME opinions are always valued, but few DAMEs have formal qualifications in aviation medicine. CASA doctors have an advantage in that they have the relevant postgraduate and occupational medicine qualifications, and as the regulator, must make the final decision.
The cost of tests is outside CASA’s control. Applicants frequently supply results of inappropriate tests and you are encouraged to liaise with Avmed beforehand to avoid this problem.
In terms of delays, the median response time is 7–9 days where all the information is complete, but 37 days where it is not. The electronic application process will further reduce delays and ensure complete information is provided before an application can be submitted.
Following recent dialogue with the sport aviation organisations, CASA is actively sourcing material to improve their understanding of medical and regulatory issues.
Summary: CASA's opinion is that CASA knows better.
Reality: It doesn't.
The recent track record of challenges to CASA's medical-related decisions in the AAT shows CASA does not know better. CASA's decision is more often than not varied in favour of the applicant, or CASA backs down before it gets to a hearing.
A blast from the not-so-distant past:
If triadic's post above is an accurate summary of AVMED's current position, it shows that CASA still does't get it.
It appears that AVMED still has an inbuilt bias that can be summarised in the vernacular: FIGJAM.
Reality: It doesn't.
The recent track record of challenges to CASA's medical-related decisions in the AAT shows CASA does not know better. CASA's decision is more often than not varied in favour of the applicant, or CASA backs down before it gets to a hearing.
A blast from the not-so-distant past:
24. Dr Navathe’s witness statement concluded in this way:
90. Having reviewed all three specialist reports, I remain convinced that I have made the safest decision in refusing Mr Bolton a Class 1 and 2 medical certificate at this time. I have formed the view that is supported by all three specialists, that Mr Bolton does not have a severe head injury, and ceteris paribus [all other things being equal] will be able to obtain medical certification after a period of 18 – 24 months has elapsed from the time of the injury.
91. I acknowledge that I have an overriding duty to provide impartial assistance to the Tribunal. No matters of significance have been withheld from the Tribunal
Despite the fact that the statement does contain the declaration of duty required by the Guidelines it could not be plainer that Dr Navathe is an advocate for his own decision. I do not propose to have any regard to his opinions. For the future I would trust that CASA’s Legal Branch would exercise independent judgement in deciding what witnesses ought be relied upon and the content of their statements. They ought, obviously enough, be confined to matters that are relevant and witnesses ought be those who can truly provide an independent opinion.
90. Having reviewed all three specialist reports, I remain convinced that I have made the safest decision in refusing Mr Bolton a Class 1 and 2 medical certificate at this time. I have formed the view that is supported by all three specialists, that Mr Bolton does not have a severe head injury, and ceteris paribus [all other things being equal] will be able to obtain medical certification after a period of 18 – 24 months has elapsed from the time of the injury.
91. I acknowledge that I have an overriding duty to provide impartial assistance to the Tribunal. No matters of significance have been withheld from the Tribunal
Despite the fact that the statement does contain the declaration of duty required by the Guidelines it could not be plainer that Dr Navathe is an advocate for his own decision. I do not propose to have any regard to his opinions. For the future I would trust that CASA’s Legal Branch would exercise independent judgement in deciding what witnesses ought be relied upon and the content of their statements. They ought, obviously enough, be confined to matters that are relevant and witnesses ought be those who can truly provide an independent opinion.
It appears that AVMED still has an inbuilt bias that can be summarised in the vernacular: FIGJAM.
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I struggle with this bit..........
I would have thought that being designated a DAME, meant that you in fact DID have a formal qualification. 
My own GP, is also a DAME. He did the courses because he wanted to fly. The courses turned him to golf instead. Words from his own mouth.
but few DAMEs have formal qualifications in aviation medicine.
My own GP, is also a DAME. He did the courses because he wanted to fly. The courses turned him to golf instead. Words from his own mouth.
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Dr Arthur Pape's ASAM 2015 Presentation
Earlier last month, CVDPA Director Dr Arthur Pape spoke at the Australasian Society of Aerospace Medicine annual conference held in Adelaide. A reproduced copy of his presentation is below:
From the conference website, the abstract of the presentation was:
From the conference website, the abstract of the presentation was:
The Colour Assessment and Diagnosis (CAD) Test: An Ishihara by another name?
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) is responsible for aviation safety, carrying out its responsibility using various methods. These include:
(i) Mandating regular medical tests (minimising risks of, say, cardio-vascular events that could render aircrew incapable of safe piloting); and
(ii) Mandating regular flight-simulator tests (ensuring pilots can cope safely with unexpected events while flying).
CASA also implements the Aviation Colour Perception Standard (ACPS) which since June 2014 has included the CAD Test. In February 2015 the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) granted a colour-vision-defective pilot who had failed the CAD Test all privileges of the Airline Transport Pilot Licence (ATPL), concluding, in essence, that CAD Test performance was irrelevant in determining whether the pilot could fly aircraft safely.
I elaborate on this AAT decision. I do this by showing a video of the CAD Test in action, and using this to highlight crucial aspects of the Test that provide compelling evidence for the proposition that while the CAD may be an excellent test of defective colour vision, it is not a test of potentially defective and unsafe control of aircraft. That is, the CAD Test is not an operational test, a point acknowledged by Professor J. Barbur, a co-developer of the Test, in his AAT evidence.
I conclude by asking why CASA has not considered using a version of an operational test already in its armoury (see Point (ii) above) in its implementation of the ACPS.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) is responsible for aviation safety, carrying out its responsibility using various methods. These include:
(i) Mandating regular medical tests (minimising risks of, say, cardio-vascular events that could render aircrew incapable of safe piloting); and
(ii) Mandating regular flight-simulator tests (ensuring pilots can cope safely with unexpected events while flying).
CASA also implements the Aviation Colour Perception Standard (ACPS) which since June 2014 has included the CAD Test. In February 2015 the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) granted a colour-vision-defective pilot who had failed the CAD Test all privileges of the Airline Transport Pilot Licence (ATPL), concluding, in essence, that CAD Test performance was irrelevant in determining whether the pilot could fly aircraft safely.
I elaborate on this AAT decision. I do this by showing a video of the CAD Test in action, and using this to highlight crucial aspects of the Test that provide compelling evidence for the proposition that while the CAD may be an excellent test of defective colour vision, it is not a test of potentially defective and unsafe control of aircraft. That is, the CAD Test is not an operational test, a point acknowledged by Professor J. Barbur, a co-developer of the Test, in his AAT evidence.
I conclude by asking why CASA has not considered using a version of an operational test already in its armoury (see Point (ii) above) in its implementation of the ACPS.
CASA is an evidence-based and risk-based regulator.
Accordingly, until there is evidence of substantial political risk arising from the rejuvinated prejudice against pilots with CVD, CASA will continue to treat them with indifferent contempt.
Simple really.
Accordingly, until there is evidence of substantial political risk arising from the rejuvinated prejudice against pilots with CVD, CASA will continue to treat them with indifferent contempt.
Simple really.
