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The Empire Strikes Back! on Colour Defective Pilots

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The Empire Strikes Back! on Colour Defective Pilots

Old 30th Aug 2014, 21:44
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A Sunday growl.

CP # 486 –"Given the profound consequences for the careers of pilots and aspiring pilots, and the disruption caused by the correspondence with AOC holders, CASA would not merely invent or exaggerate the implications of some "recent medical research". That would not only be intellectually dishonest: it would be unlawful."
Half Baked " If they can't it smacks of bullying, harassment and victimization of CVD pilots.
One of the more subtle, even subliminal side effects of this 'smear' campaign the Pooh-Shambollic system is trying to run are the 'residuals'. Two candidates for a position – one CVD; subconscious memory "Oh, wasn't there some issues with CVD pilots raised by CASA a while back, best not stir that pot". FLICK. The culture of fear is deeply ingrained; an office wallah would have no concept of the arguments or issues; simply two facts CVD plus CASA = Trouble.

It's bad enough that there is an overt grab for glory; but once that is caned, the residual notions will unfairly discriminate against a CVD pilot. The construct supporting a 'clean' medical certificate, issued on the spot by the DAME has real merit.

While I'm 'at it'; the entire 'application' form is in need of an overhaul; the signed confession is discriminatory and readily lends it's self to a deteriorating safety standard. An honest, responsible man (or mannette) may confidentially own up to recurrent in-grown toe nails and seek the advice of the medico; but is this any business of the 'administrator'?. No; so why the invasive 'questions' – what a doctor treats a patient for is strictly 'private'. All the administrator needs to know – is the candidate fit to fly (Yes or No) pick one. If Yes, pay the fee, place certificate in wallet and bugger off; if No, take the tablets and go into the desert; come back when you feel better.

To have that 'private' information available to the Hoi Polloi clerical staff and to have someone, not your doctor pawing through your record and deciding whether or not any condition precludes safe operations is risible, an invasion of privacy and a poke in the eye to your own, qualified, accredited DAME who is not trusted it seems to issue your license. The tension generated by the two month wait, after the examination to see if you have been issued a certificate is a constant niggle; (Q) "Can you fly next Monday?" – (A) "Dunno, medical extension expires Sunday, I'll let you know when (if) it arrives in time". The next hour is spent on the telephone pleading for your paperwork to be delivered. This is a bollocks - it's a money making racket, built into an incompetent, bureaucratic, Shambollic empire, by a self serving, self aggrandising megalomaniac.

There, better now.....
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Old 30th Aug 2014, 22:27
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It's done by demonstrating to CASA, within the framework of their regulations, that the risk is acceptable to them.
And there, writ large, is the fundamental error made by the zealots on a medical crusade.

The risk that is acceptable is already built into the regulations and does not require anything to be acceptable or unnaceptable to anyone in CASA. If they actually read the regulations and complied with them, the zealots on a medical crusade would realise that there is actually no role to play for any medical expert in the process of demonstrating compliance with the colour perception standard.

Let's remind ourselves of what the actual rule about demonstrating compliance with the colour perception standard actually says:
(6) A person must demonstrate that he or she meets the criterion in item 1.39 of table 67.150 by:

(a) in daylight, or artificial light of similar luminosity, readily identifying a series of pseudo‑isochromatic plates of the Ishihara 24‑plate type, making no more than 2 errors; or

(b) for somebody who makes more than 2 errors in a test mentioned in paragraph (a), readily identifying aviation coloured lights displayed by means of a Farnsworth colour‑perception lantern, making:

(i) no errors on 1 run of 9 pairs of lights; or

(ii) no more than 2 errors on a sequence of 2 runs of 9 pairs of lights; or

(c) for somebody who does not satisfy paragraph (a) or (b), correctly identifying all relevant coloured lights in a test, determined by CASA, that simulates an operational situation.
A person who passes the Ishihara test in (a) has demonstrated compliance with the standard. It doesn't matter whether that outcome is acceptable to CASA or not. That test can be administered by a trained monkey.

A person who passes the Falent test in (b) has demonstrated compliance with the standard. It doesn't matter whether that outcome is acceptable to CASA or not. That test can be administered by a trained monkey.

A person who passes the simulated operational situation test in (c) has demonstrated compliance with the standard. It doesn't matter whether that outcome is acceptable to CASA or not. That test cannot be administered by a trained monkey. It must be administered by a person with operational expertise.

The test for the purposes of (c) can't be determined by a medical expert. It must be determind by an operational expert. The point of the test is not to find out whether the candidate has a defect in colour perception: We already know that s/he does. The point of the test is to find out whether the candidate is able to perform simulated safety-critical operational tasks that depend on the identification of the meaning of lights that are coloured, as effectively and efficiently as candidates who don't have colour vision deficiency. Medical experts wouldn't have a clue about that. It's been proved: The CAD test doesn't simulate sh*t.

But because zealots on a medical crusade are superior and need to save the world, mere trivialities like the law are but a minor irritation. It's all about them and what's "acceptable" to them. (That's why they need to pry into and know everything about your personal life, Kharon.)

Last edited by Creampuff; 30th Aug 2014 at 23:10.
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Old 31st Aug 2014, 03:24
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creampuff has highlighted the essence of the insanity that CAsA has become.

you cannot predict the future.

you can have a good guess at it but the inherent randomness of life is always a confounding factor.

What the semantic weakness in the act has done is cause the "we know safety" nutters in CAsA to try to force the future.

"safety" and "luck" are exactly analogous. neither is an actual entity in itself. they are descriptions applied to the successful outcome of some activity.

if the act was changed so that the Western Australian Lotteries commission was charged with assuring that every person who bought a lotto ticket won the lotto you would immediately see the stupidity.
Mix a bit of the fear of death in and CAsA is charged with an impossible undertaking. Nobody seems to see the idiocy built into the Act. You cannot predict the future.

The people with colour vision differences are not deficient.
Look at them. 25 years of safe aviation and they are all healthy individuals.

CAsA on the other hand are demonstrably insane.
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Old 1st Sep 2014, 21:24
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I'm a stranger in Paradox. La dah de de dum.

WF.."Now if only more people would think like you in Europe, the cad test would be just confined to a museum..."
This is perhaps one of the worst, among the many travesties the current PMO has committed against the aviation community. When the Denison 'test' case findings were handed down the Avmed crew at the time were determined to expand the research and promote the findings. After 25 years the world could have adopted the Australian standard, at least for civil pilots, the relaxed ruling supported by facts and research.

Creamy – lets suppose a meeting with the minuscule could be arranged to discuss the subject; (i) What do we 'want' from the meeting? < and (ii) what could we realistically expect the minuscule do? (if indeed he could be persuaded to 'do' anything).

The notion you suggest of simply abiding by the rules seems to be a 'sound' solution and goes to the heart of real 'reform' in both spirit and intent. Is that enough? what's to stop the old Pooh-Shambollic regime from finding a back door and setting off on the same regressive journey again. A simple solution would be to fire the buggers as part of the reform package and start again, gods know Avmed needs an overhaul. The department taken back to 'tors' and performing original design function would save a shed load, keeping Avmed out of the AAT would save another; especially if DAME were trusted to sign off the certificate.

It's a strange little excursion this CVD thing, I still can't quite define the "Why" of it. But then again; I'm easily puzzled.

Exeunt: stage right, scratching head and mumbling.
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Old 1st Sep 2014, 22:18
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The Minister doesn't care enough to lift a finger to change anything. A meeting with the Minister would therefore be pointless.

The AAT and Federal Court are now the only hope on the CVD front.

If you want any substantial change, stop electing Laborials.
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 20:00
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A happy start to the day.

Some days it's worth getting out bed and opening the mail; I don't do a lot of 'warm and fuzzy' in the normal way of things, but this started my day with definite feel good vibe.

Media Release: 3 September, 2014.

Which starts with:

In a formal Submission to Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development Warren Truss, the Virgin Independent Pilots Association (VIPA) claims the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) has mounted a coordinated and vigorous campaign to discriminate against pilots who have colour vision deficiency (CVD).

Members of the VIPA Executive, along with the President of the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA), will meet with Minister Truss today to highlight how, despite assurances from CASA, changes to CVD practices have been introduced without full industry consultation.
And ends with:

“CVD pilots are just the latest group to be targeted by the PMO and their plight highlights the reason why VIPA and many in the industry are calling for an urgent overhaul of the AvMed section of CASA.”

Mr O’Hara will be joined by the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) President, Nathan Safe, along with Senator David Fawcett, Mr O’Brien and Dr Arthur Pape, an authority in CVD, at today’s meeting with Minister Truss in Parliament House.
The words are mundane enough but the brilliant Fawcett, the doughty O'Hara and the stalwart Safe; in combination with Pape could make a stone idol blink. Truss is acting PM and to get into his office, let alone a 20 minute audience is not a shabby effort. Well done all, Bravo...... Chocolate frogs in the mail; hell I might even send the DPM one.

Toot toot...
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 07:11
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Brilliant
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 12:41
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“CVD pilots are just the latest group to be targeted by the PMO and their plight highlights the reason why VIPA and many in the industry are calling for an urgent overhaul of the AvMed section of CASA.”
Mr O’Hara will be joined by the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) President, Nathan Safe, along with Senator David Fawcett, Mr O’Brien and Dr Arthur Pape, an authority in CVD, at today’s meeting with Minister Truss in Parliament House.
That would have been a very strange experience for Truss. Being surrounded by actual aviation technical experts! For once he wasn't being fed mountains of spin, bullshit and long winded tales of 'everything is just peachey' by the likes of CASA hierarchy, Board members, Mr MrDak, Credlin and others. Nope, he would have heard a couple of home truths I imagine.
But the Ministwr won't be happy having to be the one extending the olive branch, that's what his bobble heads are paid to do! Interesting to see. Maybe he is starting to worry that, as Creampuff says, the threat of non laborials scoring some points might be actually becoming a distant concern? After all it's amazing what mayhem a couple of oddballs like PUP has been able to do with just a couple of stalled votes
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 23:07
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Snap.

Funny you should say that, there were many things to think on within the press release; because it was a 'million dollar' meeting. Just the simple fact that Fawcett was not only there, took the lead and the boys had enough sense to let him set the tone was 'the' major victory. The very able support of the AIPA and VIPA presidents added an almost tangible dynamic to the 'credibility gap', Doc Pape and John O'Brien providing a sane, competent face to the discussion. All of this makes the meeting a very real milestone, not just for CVD, but for the return of sanity to Sleepy Hollow. None of this has any intrinsic value I might add.

Once I got past the meat and potatoes, the thought 'wonder what Truss made of it' crept in. He's been at his job a long time and must be inured to folks 'wanting' or selling something within his power and is probably immune to the slobbering of those creatures from the swamps who try to curry favour. But he seems to have a problem seeing through the CASA smoke and mirrors; if ever there was crew to remove those rose coloured glasses, he just met them. I'd hazard a beer he found the experience of 'truth' and the tang of rock solid, professional competence refreshing; and, another to say that with the evidence piling up and CASA credibility crumbling around him; the decisions he must make are becoming much easier, day by day.

The portents and omens are good; if only he could just crack on, preferably before the end of the century. Truss could save himself a lot of time, trouble, heartache and public money if he just let it happen, as it must. Perhaps a quick check of the - scorecard – will galvanise action; it's not looking too good just now.

Toot toot..
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 08:18
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Well done VIPA and AIPA

Follow up media from the meeting...

VIPA meets with Acting PM over CVD

The Virgin Independent Pilots Association (VIPA) has raised its ongoing concerns about new regulations for pilots with colour vision deficiency (CVD), in a briefing with the Acting Prime Minister Warren Truss.

Executive Director, Simon O’Hara, said yesterday’s meeting with Mr Truss in Canberra, allowed members of the VIPA Executive to “set the record straight” on changes to CVD testing.

“VIPA thanks the Acting Prime Minister for allowing us the opportunity to outline the long list of issues impacting CVD pilots across Australia, as a result of CASA introducing these unfair policy changes without consulting industry,” Mr O’Hara said today.

“We demonstrated how the colour assessment and diagnostic test (CAD) works and how there is actually no evidence to support CASA’s claims relating to the safety-related implications of the abilities of CVD pilots.

“The fact is, since the early ‘90s, several thousand CVD pilots have reached the highest levels of aviation across Australia with unblemished safety records after CASA previously accepted passes in practical flight and simulator testing.”

The Acting Prime Minister heard first-hand from CVD regional airline pilot, John O’Brien, who lodged an appeal in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT), against a refusal by CASA to permit him to become a Captain. The new policy was “discriminating” against CVD pilots like Mr O’Brien.

Dr Arthur Pape, an authority in CVD, the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) President Nathan Safe and Senator David Fawcett, also attended the briefing with the Acting Prime Minister.

“Unless the Government intervenes, we are extremely concerned these new policy changes will see an increasing number of CVD pilots abandoning the industry altogether,” Mr O’Hara explained.

“VIPA and other industry stakeholders will continue to work together with Mr Truss to address the issues contained in our Submission and we were further encouraged by his agreement that CASA won’t make any further changes to CVD regulations without consulting industry.”
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 10:08
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... we were further encouraged by his agreement that CAsA won’t make any further changes to CVD regulations without consulting industry.
Oh how I wish I could be reassured by that statement. But consultation comes in many guises

Good on them for getting to Truss, and a great team to confront him. But he's yesterday's man, and has consistently failed to address the issues. And when it all turns to tears, he'll be well gone.
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Old 17th Sep 2014, 14:10
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This must be the lull before the storm......

John Obriens AAT court hearing is next month
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Old 17th Sep 2014, 23:23
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Easily led?

I can't believe there has been no delay called for, or that good sense has not prevailed. But, then again, I can't believe the whole thing ever got started. Pooh-Shambollic fighting for his professional credibility on Watson's faux photographs.. (he went to some trouble in Brisbane recently to tell everyone (this time) that the "newspaper" headlines were a phoney and a product of his heated ego) versus John armed with 25 years of solid proof, supported by some very heavyweight folk. We shall watch with interest.


Yeth and I'm only 16.

Toot toot....
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 11:39
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AAT Hearings next week

Less than a week to go now until the AAT Hearings.

For anyone interested in attending to show support, it'll be held at the AAT's Brisbane registry from Tues 21st - Fri 24th Oct at the Commonwealth Law Courts Building (entry on Tank Street).

More precise details including times and the hearing room number is updated daily on the tribunal's website:

AAT Daily Listings

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Old 20th Oct 2014, 02:47
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I hope the chairs in the public area are comfy
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 08:39
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Here's to common sense, empirical evidence and no Bullsh#t getting in the way of the non issue that this is.
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Old 21st Oct 2014, 08:17
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Update?

Hi Guys,

Anyone there today? Any idea how we as the public stuck far from QLD can get an update?
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Old 21st Oct 2014, 10:56
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Without saying too much, John did a stellar effort under considerable pressure at times, and CVD pilots throughout the world owe him big time for standing up for what is right, with professionalism and integrity.

The team presented an excellent case and the feeling is positive so far.
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Old 21st Oct 2014, 12:54
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Chooks and eggs.

Three points of concern:-

i) The change of 'president' to a family court man; this case demands, at very least, someone who knows which end of an aircraft the smoke comes out of. Late changes are, in all ways, a worry.

ii) The late change of lawyers – off the bench, J. Rule to hold Hardly's jacket may yet cause some 'difficulty'.

iii) Harvey will take this matter away from 'the law' as writ to an esoteric, technical distraction fuax-pas. E.g. Hempel was pure operational, but became a 'medical' bun fight. This is pure law – but will translated into operational or, transmogrified into a 'medical' melodrama.

On the plus side – the 'expert', expensive OS (NZ) CASA support 'specialists' have apparently been cancelled, Fawcett has weighed in, and so far to date no 30K 'death dives' have resulted from CVD. Phew!

Thus far, a 50/50 bet. Logically – a lay down Misčre; but at AAT with CASA – an unaffordable Federal court challenge may win the day– but who can afford it?. CASA can, that's who...

Just saying – chickens and eggs – is all...I hope the inestimable Creamy will assuage my misgivings – but; in a life where nothing is certain – It happens...

Gluck boys.

Last edited by Kharon; 21st Oct 2014 at 12:55. Reason: Cluck, cluck etc
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Old 22nd Oct 2014, 09:39
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The contradictory statements from CASA about this are breath taking. The classic examples are Gibson's "assurances" that there will be no witch hunt for CVD pilots and the direct contradiction with CASA letters removing ATPL medical privileges (subsequently reversed).

They were caught out about CAD, evidence to the AAT and the senate hearings etc etc

The current head of Aviation Medicine is set on undoing the sensible gains that have been made in many areas over the last 20 years.

His predecessors were honest brokers who were frustrated by the CASA machinery and left, but he is happy to hide behind the bureaucracy.

His testimony and comments across various forums and in the AAT will be viewed by most as misleading and unprofessional. He has been shot down legally on several occasions.

The sooner he is replaced - the better.

This latest decision by the AAT will be critical not only for CVD, but for other AVMED areas in terms of the message it will create.
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