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The Empire Strikes Back! on Colour Defective Pilots

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The Empire Strikes Back! on Colour Defective Pilots

Old 1st Sep 2014, 21:18
  #461 (permalink)  
 
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The Minister doesn't care enough to lift a finger to change anything. A meeting with the Minister would therefore be pointless.

The AAT and Federal Court are now the only hope on the CVD front.

If you want any substantial change, stop electing Laborials.
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 19:00
  #462 (permalink)  
 
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A happy start to the day.

Some days it's worth getting out bed and opening the mail; I don't do a lot of 'warm and fuzzy' in the normal way of things, but this started my day with definite feel good vibe.

Media Release: 3 September, 2014.

Which starts with:

In a formal Submission to Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development Warren Truss, the Virgin Independent Pilots Association (VIPA) claims the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) has mounted a coordinated and vigorous campaign to discriminate against pilots who have colour vision deficiency (CVD).

Members of the VIPA Executive, along with the President of the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA), will meet with Minister Truss today to highlight how, despite assurances from CASA, changes to CVD practices have been introduced without full industry consultation.
And ends with:

“CVD pilots are just the latest group to be targeted by the PMO and their plight highlights the reason why VIPA and many in the industry are calling for an urgent overhaul of the AvMed section of CASA.”

Mr O’Hara will be joined by the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) President, Nathan Safe, along with Senator David Fawcett, Mr O’Brien and Dr Arthur Pape, an authority in CVD, at today’s meeting with Minister Truss in Parliament House.
The words are mundane enough but the brilliant Fawcett, the doughty O'Hara and the stalwart Safe; in combination with Pape could make a stone idol blink. Truss is acting PM and to get into his office, let alone a 20 minute audience is not a shabby effort. Well done all, Bravo...... Chocolate frogs in the mail; hell I might even send the DPM one.

Toot toot...
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 06:11
  #463 (permalink)  
 
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Brilliant
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 11:41
  #464 (permalink)  
 
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“CVD pilots are just the latest group to be targeted by the PMO and their plight highlights the reason why VIPA and many in the industry are calling for an urgent overhaul of the AvMed section of CASA.”
Mr O’Hara will be joined by the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) President, Nathan Safe, along with Senator David Fawcett, Mr O’Brien and Dr Arthur Pape, an authority in CVD, at today’s meeting with Minister Truss in Parliament House.
That would have been a very strange experience for Truss. Being surrounded by actual aviation technical experts! For once he wasn't being fed mountains of spin, bullshit and long winded tales of 'everything is just peachey' by the likes of CASA hierarchy, Board members, Mr MrDak, Credlin and others. Nope, he would have heard a couple of home truths I imagine.
But the Ministwr won't be happy having to be the one extending the olive branch, that's what his bobble heads are paid to do! Interesting to see. Maybe he is starting to worry that, as Creampuff says, the threat of non laborials scoring some points might be actually becoming a distant concern? After all it's amazing what mayhem a couple of oddballs like PUP has been able to do with just a couple of stalled votes
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 22:07
  #465 (permalink)  
 
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Snap.

Funny you should say that, there were many things to think on within the press release; because it was a 'million dollar' meeting. Just the simple fact that Fawcett was not only there, took the lead and the boys had enough sense to let him set the tone was 'the' major victory. The very able support of the AIPA and VIPA presidents added an almost tangible dynamic to the 'credibility gap', Doc Pape and John O'Brien providing a sane, competent face to the discussion. All of this makes the meeting a very real milestone, not just for CVD, but for the return of sanity to Sleepy Hollow. None of this has any intrinsic value I might add.

Once I got past the meat and potatoes, the thought 'wonder what Truss made of it' crept in. He's been at his job a long time and must be inured to folks 'wanting' or selling something within his power and is probably immune to the slobbering of those creatures from the swamps who try to curry favour. But he seems to have a problem seeing through the CASA smoke and mirrors; if ever there was crew to remove those rose coloured glasses, he just met them. I'd hazard a beer he found the experience of 'truth' and the tang of rock solid, professional competence refreshing; and, another to say that with the evidence piling up and CASA credibility crumbling around him; the decisions he must make are becoming much easier, day by day.

The portents and omens are good; if only he could just crack on, preferably before the end of the century. Truss could save himself a lot of time, trouble, heartache and public money if he just let it happen, as it must. Perhaps a quick check of the - scorecard – will galvanise action; it's not looking too good just now.

Toot toot..
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 07:18
  #466 (permalink)  
 
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Well done VIPA and AIPA

Follow up media from the meeting...

VIPA meets with Acting PM over CVD

The Virgin Independent Pilots Association (VIPA) has raised its ongoing concerns about new regulations for pilots with colour vision deficiency (CVD), in a briefing with the Acting Prime Minister Warren Truss.

Executive Director, Simon O’Hara, said yesterday’s meeting with Mr Truss in Canberra, allowed members of the VIPA Executive to “set the record straight” on changes to CVD testing.

“VIPA thanks the Acting Prime Minister for allowing us the opportunity to outline the long list of issues impacting CVD pilots across Australia, as a result of CASA introducing these unfair policy changes without consulting industry,” Mr O’Hara said today.

“We demonstrated how the colour assessment and diagnostic test (CAD) works and how there is actually no evidence to support CASA’s claims relating to the safety-related implications of the abilities of CVD pilots.

“The fact is, since the early ‘90s, several thousand CVD pilots have reached the highest levels of aviation across Australia with unblemished safety records after CASA previously accepted passes in practical flight and simulator testing.”

The Acting Prime Minister heard first-hand from CVD regional airline pilot, John O’Brien, who lodged an appeal in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT), against a refusal by CASA to permit him to become a Captain. The new policy was “discriminating” against CVD pilots like Mr O’Brien.

Dr Arthur Pape, an authority in CVD, the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) President Nathan Safe and Senator David Fawcett, also attended the briefing with the Acting Prime Minister.

“Unless the Government intervenes, we are extremely concerned these new policy changes will see an increasing number of CVD pilots abandoning the industry altogether,” Mr O’Hara explained.

“VIPA and other industry stakeholders will continue to work together with Mr Truss to address the issues contained in our Submission and we were further encouraged by his agreement that CASA won’t make any further changes to CVD regulations without consulting industry.”
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 09:08
  #467 (permalink)  
 
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... we were further encouraged by his agreement that CAsA won’t make any further changes to CVD regulations without consulting industry.
Oh how I wish I could be reassured by that statement. But consultation comes in many guises

Good on them for getting to Truss, and a great team to confront him. But he's yesterday's man, and has consistently failed to address the issues. And when it all turns to tears, he'll be well gone.
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Old 17th Sep 2014, 13:10
  #468 (permalink)  
 
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This must be the lull before the storm......

John Obriens AAT court hearing is next month
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Old 17th Sep 2014, 22:23
  #469 (permalink)  
 
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Easily led?

I can't believe there has been no delay called for, or that good sense has not prevailed. But, then again, I can't believe the whole thing ever got started. Pooh-Shambollic fighting for his professional credibility on Watson's faux photographs.. (he went to some trouble in Brisbane recently to tell everyone (this time) that the "newspaper" headlines were a phoney and a product of his heated ego) versus John armed with 25 years of solid proof, supported by some very heavyweight folk. We shall watch with interest.


Yeth and I'm only 16.

Toot toot....
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 10:39
  #470 (permalink)  
 
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AAT Hearings next week

Less than a week to go now until the AAT Hearings.

For anyone interested in attending to show support, it'll be held at the AAT's Brisbane registry from Tues 21st - Fri 24th Oct at the Commonwealth Law Courts Building (entry on Tank Street).

More precise details including times and the hearing room number is updated daily on the tribunal's website:

AAT Daily Listings

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Old 20th Oct 2014, 01:47
  #471 (permalink)  
 
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I hope the chairs in the public area are comfy
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 07:39
  #472 (permalink)  
 
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Here's to common sense, empirical evidence and no Bullsh#t getting in the way of the non issue that this is.
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Old 21st Oct 2014, 07:17
  #473 (permalink)  
 
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Update?

Hi Guys,

Anyone there today? Any idea how we as the public stuck far from QLD can get an update?
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Old 21st Oct 2014, 09:56
  #474 (permalink)  
 
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Without saying too much, John did a stellar effort under considerable pressure at times, and CVD pilots throughout the world owe him big time for standing up for what is right, with professionalism and integrity.

The team presented an excellent case and the feeling is positive so far.
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Old 21st Oct 2014, 11:54
  #475 (permalink)  
 
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Chooks and eggs.

Three points of concern:-

i) The change of 'president' to a family court man; this case demands, at very least, someone who knows which end of an aircraft the smoke comes out of. Late changes are, in all ways, a worry.

ii) The late change of lawyers – off the bench, J. Rule to hold Hardly's jacket may yet cause some 'difficulty'.

iii) Harvey will take this matter away from 'the law' as writ to an esoteric, technical distraction fuax-pas. E.g. Hempel was pure operational, but became a 'medical' bun fight. This is pure law – but will translated into operational or, transmogrified into a 'medical' melodrama.

On the plus side – the 'expert', expensive OS (NZ) CASA support 'specialists' have apparently been cancelled, Fawcett has weighed in, and so far to date no 30K 'death dives' have resulted from CVD. Phew!

Thus far, a 50/50 bet. Logically – a lay down Misčre; but at AAT with CASA – an unaffordable Federal court challenge may win the day– but who can afford it?. CASA can, that's who...

Just saying – chickens and eggs – is all...I hope the inestimable Creamy will assuage my misgivings – but; in a life where nothing is certain – It happens...

Gluck boys.

Last edited by Kharon; 21st Oct 2014 at 11:55. Reason: Cluck, cluck etc
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Old 22nd Oct 2014, 08:39
  #476 (permalink)  
 
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The contradictory statements from CASA about this are breath taking. The classic examples are Gibson's "assurances" that there will be no witch hunt for CVD pilots and the direct contradiction with CASA letters removing ATPL medical privileges (subsequently reversed).

They were caught out about CAD, evidence to the AAT and the senate hearings etc etc

The current head of Aviation Medicine is set on undoing the sensible gains that have been made in many areas over the last 20 years.

His predecessors were honest brokers who were frustrated by the CASA machinery and left, but he is happy to hide behind the bureaucracy.

His testimony and comments across various forums and in the AAT will be viewed by most as misleading and unprofessional. He has been shot down legally on several occasions.

The sooner he is replaced - the better.

This latest decision by the AAT will be critical not only for CVD, but for other AVMED areas in terms of the message it will create.
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Old 24th Oct 2014, 07:22
  #477 (permalink)  
 
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Updates?

Hi Guys,

Any update on the final day? Nerve wreckingly quiet?

Thanks
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Old 24th Oct 2014, 10:28
  #478 (permalink)  
 
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cvd case update?

hello was just wondering if anyone has any update on the cvd case? and/or if a result has been reached?
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Old 25th Oct 2014, 04:10
  #479 (permalink)  
xjt
 
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AAT Hearings Report

Dear Friends & Colleagues,

It has been a very busy week!

Thank you to all who were able to attend the AAT in person and support our cause. You would have no doubt found the process both interesting and frustrating, with CASA continue to perpetuate a myth based on unproven assumptions that CVD pilots pose an unacceptable risk to the safety of air navigation.

The hearings lasted for 3 days in total before a tribunal consisting of Justice Robert Benjamin and Dr William Isles.

Fortunately, the lawyers managed to reduce the amount of witnesses who were required to give oral evidence. On our side, the tribunal heard practical evidence from regarding how CVD pilots operate. We were also very fortunate to be supported by Associate Professor Geoff Stuart who provided terrific evidence on the numerous scientific flaws associated with the design of the CAD test. He also gave evidence regarding the flaws in CASA’s risk management process that they are adopting with CVD pilots. A. Prof. Stuart has over 30 years’ experience in vision science including studies of colour vision. He is also a human factors specialist and conducts work for a University Accident Research Centre.

On CASA’s side, the Principal Medical Officer Dr Navathe was cross examined and A. Prof. Geoff Stuart also gave concurrent evidence with CASA’s experts, Prof John Parkes and the inventor of the CAD test, Prof John Barbour. We did manage to achieve a number of oral admissions from CASA’s experts, including the fact that the CAD did not simulate an operational situation.

Despite this, there is still a long way to go and victory is by no means certain. CASA’s massive legal firepower was extremely obvious this week, with them being represented by a very experienced external barrister Ian Harvey QC. They are throwing everything they’ve got at this case and it continues to be a “Might” versus “Right” battle.

We are also facing the fact that what we are trying to achieve has never been done anywhere else in the world. Despite recent events this year, Australia continues to remain the most liberal country in the world with respect to aviation colour vision standards. For this reason alone, the tribunal will naturally be very cautious in making a decision which is so drastically different to the standards that are adopted elsewhere. We are fighting an uphill battle, but we are continuing to give this everything we’ve got. We have the emperical evidence to support our case and it's now up to the tribunal to see the light.

We next have until the 14th November to prepare follow up written submissions. This will require us to carefully study the transcripts and dissect the evidence that was given. A final public hearing day is then scheduled for the 24th November. At that point, the tribunal will then retire to consider all the evidence including the numerous experts who gave written statements, but were not required to give oral evidence in person. It could potentially take weeks or months before the ultimate decision is handed down.

We will continue to keep everyone updated throughout this process.

Thanks again for your ongoing enthusiasm and support.
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Old 1st Nov 2014, 09:52
  #480 (permalink)  
 
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Canada

Please note that our standards are not the most liberal in the world. Canada has a very similar air safety task to ours, and their standards are roughly the same as ours.

Of course, that could change if CASA gets their way. I am deeply ashamed to be a member of the same profession as them.
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