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Who represents GA to government in Australia?

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Who represents GA to government in Australia?

Old 9th Nov 2013, 20:00
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Guilders, AOPA may well have made a submission but clearly AOPA are also good mates with CASA. One look at the AOPA web site will confim this. Sadly you can't both represent GA and also be mates with the regulator unless the regulator deciedes to foster and support aviation. At present CASA has no intention of fostering aviation.

Unfortunately GA need something with a little more balls than AOPA and it is for this reason I am giving up my 25 year membership. For a glossy magazine it is not worth the cost.
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Old 9th Nov 2013, 23:47
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Cool

Cactus Jack, Hear Hear, you are right on the money, it is improbable any reasonable change comes from conjugal pairing.
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Old 9th Nov 2013, 23:59
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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far better outcomes with CASA by working with them
Apologies for taking this out of the text to highlight something lost on many.

This mindset is why CASA are in the position of non accountability today. They work on the theory of "you're with us or agin us" and until the various "representative bodies come to terms with that they will remain outside any sphere of influence. You simply can't work "with" them and pretend to represent the members interests at the same time.

that is an absurd assessment and totally inaccurate
There are no apologies for this highlight. That statement itself is an absurd mis-statement of fact.

If there are two people in a lift and one farts, it's hard to blame it on the other bloke. The mentioned alphabet soup organization was instrumental in supporting the introduction of ASIC, indeed they wanted to issue the cards. They accepted cash to host "CASA roadshows", accepted free or token rates advertising in CASA blurbs, made submissions or didn't make submissions depending on the mood or benefit of individuals and became a "compliant" organization.

I could go on, but mere mention of "that" organization on these pages usually ends with exchanges of abuse and closing of threads. Posters should be cognizant of this "fact" as there is a lot of unsatisfied ex members with long memories still around. Oblique mentions are mildly tolerated from my experience.
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Old 10th Nov 2013, 00:44
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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AOPA decided some time ago that they could encourage far better outcomes with CASA by working with them on important issues and that has been an effective way of doing business for GA for some time now.
I've intermittently been a member of AOPA since 1973. Its trotted out this line as long as I can remember and in that time things for GA have gotten worse and its hard to point to indelible changes achieved by AOPA.

Over that time we have seen other special interest groups come and go who did not take such a kumbaya attitude but did make some inroads.

Dick Smith (pre CASA in the "2 years in the aviation hall of doom" Two Years in the Aviation Hall of Doom) era and Boyd Munro www.airsafety.com.au - Aviation reform without needless change come to mind.

We even needed an Ameican (John Deakin) to blow the whistle on the appalling job that was done on the Whyalla Chieftan accident. Pelican's Perch #57:<br>The Whyalla Report — Junk Science? - AVweb Features Article

AOPA did not make a submission to the Senate Pel-air inquiry (although a past president did)

Lately, have we seen signs of AOPA supporting GA against CASA in issues like the John Quadrio affair?

At the moment the strongest voice for GA seem to be the Regional airline association via Jeff Boyd A Bridge Too Far | Pro Aviation. They don't seem to share the softly softly approach.

Where have we seen this sort of advocacy from AOPA?
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Old 10th Nov 2013, 08:37
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Ah Guilders,
member of the CAsA cyber warfare team are we?
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Old 10th Nov 2013, 09:04
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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TB is it a coincidence or could it be that Guilders was having a beer with this diligent, break the mould, FF twaddler...

Posted not long ago in a galaxy far..far..away: Got questions or need info re aviation in Australia? New web resource centre set up for you

Wonderful thing those flexi-hours!!
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Old 10th Nov 2013, 10:20
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Angel

Maybe his gilding of the lily is his predominant passion, certainly a CASA apologist with a bit of alphabet soup thrown in !!!!!!!!
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Old 10th Nov 2013, 10:28
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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IS NOT AN AGENCY FOR ADVOCACY! That is not their role nor should it be.....
The right to fly responsibly without undue................ Oh bugga.... what exactly is their role these days?
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Old 10th Nov 2013, 11:59
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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From the " our mission " page of the AOPA website:
By far AOPA Australia’s most important job is advocacy.
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Old 10th Nov 2013, 15:59
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Folks,
What dose a Guilder do?? Looks like we have one who guilds the Lilly ??

Guilders, old maaaaaate!!!, you are so far from reality I am wondering if you should be let out without an escort.

Seriously, the only sadly brief time when AOPA was an effective advocate for GA was a brief period, when Dick Smith and Boyd Munro gave the place a good spring clean, and part of the prime policy was:

"Pay your own way, have your own say" in recognition of the axiom:"He who pays the piper calls the tune".

In the period from about 1995 through to the end of Bill Pike's term as President, quite a lot was achieved, and CASA knew that AOPA had the lobbying power, in that period, to get up dis-allowance motions in the Senate, as was demonstrated on a number of occasions. In this period, AOPA lobbying resulted in changes to the Act and Regulations that materially benefited all of aviation.

One was the removal of regulation that mandated fixed ELT, saving GA around $20M in '95 dollars for devices with a worse than 95% failure rate in real world accidents.

Another was a change to the Act, eliminating the provision that a pilot could be prosecuted for being negligent to him or herself -- a nonsense legal proposition --- which, incidentally, CASA is trying to revive.

Parts 21 to 35 would not have ever made it into law without the combined efforts of several thousand AOPA members all collectively lobbying.

In other words, without AOPA there would be no Experimental Amateur Built --- just one of the many things brought in with Part 21 (and SAAA did nothing to help push the legislation through against concerted opposition from elements of CASA)

There would have been no vast expansion of RAOz.


I could go on, but where has there been any significant AOPA "wins" --- real wins for GA -- since it ceased to be an activist organisation, and got into bed with CASA???


Tootle pip!!

Last edited by LeadSled; 10th Nov 2013 at 16:09. Reason: spelling
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Old 11th Nov 2013, 04:17
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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There, all better now?

Well that little fire fight drilled one of the buggers; now where's his mate, Rosencrantz I wonder ?. Searching -Wikipedia -for clues.

The main source of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead is Shakespeare's Hamlet. Comparisons have also been drawn to Samuel Beckett's Waiting for Godot,[3] for the presence of two central characters who almost appear to be two halves of a single character. Many plot features are similar as well: the characters pass time by playing Questions, impersonating other characters, and interrupting each other or remaining silent for long periods of time.
.. ... Sounds about right to me.
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Old 11th Nov 2013, 08:40
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Unfortunately GA need something with a little more balls than AOPA and it is for this reason I am giving up my 25 year membership. For a glossy magazine it is not worth the cost.
Amen to that. I've just dropped out too after 22 years.
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Old 14th Nov 2013, 19:54
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Good question.

Well, a review is announced, due next year. It's time to answer the question posed by HLB #1.

If GA don't get some credible representation, the big end of town will gazump the show, the vested interests will bring on the razzle dazzle, ATSB will do the smoke and mirrors show, CASA will provide the dancing girls, the DOiT the trained seals and elephant show.

GA will contribute what exactly, last years flying cap, a scrap book of past operations or even a montage of closed workshops. I wonder if GA has the horsepower to take it to the inquiry or if the dear old donkey is so knackered and beaten that all it wants is to find a nice quiet paddock with a bit of shade, a bucket of water and some fresh grass to chew while it contemplates what used to be.

So then, who will represent GA at the next gummint sponsored circus?
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Old 14th Nov 2013, 21:39
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Here's the review announcement
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/avi...ement_ASRR.pdf

Start near the bottom of P7 to see who is looking after the interests of both GA and the regional airlines
gupta is online now  
Old 14th Nov 2013, 23:24
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Formal protest Minister!

"Yes Minister there is a mole hole in the middle of the office...hmm yes I can also smell a strong whiff of cuban cigars eminating from the hole.."

FFS this thread has dwelled on the subject of A.N.O.H.O.P.A and how they spend a lot of time underneath the desk of the DAS's office and the general consensus was...W.O.F.T.A.M!! Then we get this..


"I recognise that it is particularly difficult for the diverse general aviation sector to have its voice heard in a review like this and so I have asked Mr Phillip Reiss, President of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association of Australia, to take a particular responsibility as a specialist adviser to ensure that the concerns of general aviation and regional operators are well aired. His experience will provide valuable insight and technical expertise to the panel."


So Fort Fumble have deployed their Mole...well Minister here is a formal protest petition from the IOS and my name is number one on the list..FFS!

Last edited by Sarcs; 16th Nov 2013 at 23:18.
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Old 15th Nov 2013, 01:45
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Second the motion.

I second the Sarcs motion: how can the review possibly have any credibility with a No Hopa on the panel.

Conflict of interest – probable.
Representative of GA – not likely.
Significant membership – they wish.

The complaints are made against CASA; how can a complete Casaphile be remotely considered 'independent'. Game over before the first ball is delivered. Remember, the rest of the panel probably have NFI about No Hopa Australia and are probably used to dealing with the US version, which is a different animal, worthy of some respect. Hunt with the hounds and run with hares - not possible.

I've sent my protest in, perhaps some of our co-mates and brothers facing exile could do the same. Truss is unlikely to change his mind, but it may put the other members on their guard. What can it hurt? No I'm not cranky, furious? well perhaps, a tiny bit - ....

"BOLLOCKS !!!" (there now, that's better. It's been coming for a while).
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Old 15th Nov 2013, 02:06
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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What's the pay scale, or travel, accommodation meals and lurks allowance for a specialist adviser?

Q. Are you still on the payroll of mentioned alphabet soup organization gupta?
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Old 15th Nov 2013, 04:31
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Frank

You know I'm not...
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Old 15th Nov 2013, 06:02
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Sorry mate, I didn't know for sure. Last I heard you were crook but no details other than that regarding whether you went back or not. It's good to see you are out and about anyway.

Last time we crossed paths there was unrest because of the CASA "roadshows" and I haven't forgotten that. A lot has gone under the bridge since, but my feelings of being disenfranchised remain.

I concur with the previous posts.
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Old 15th Nov 2013, 09:05
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
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So can anyone tell us what qualifies this bloke as an "expert" on all things GA? AOPA stands for "Aircraft owners and pilots" which to me means "Private". Guess it just illustrates the ignorance of our pollies of just exactly what GA is.
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