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Pilatus PC24

Old 17th Jul 2019, 02:19
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
Folks,
Can someone help me here?
Or is it just the "new is bad" affliction that is so prevalent in sectors of the AU aviation community --- where only criticism is permitted.
Tootle pip!!
A quick look at any of the PC 24 threads running reveals these two posters (or is it one) chirping up, crowing and wishing for the failure of the PC24. Be it rumours of airframe problems or needing to be an astronaut to fly one. They started back not long after it was announced.

I donít doubt for a minute that there will be teething troubles as any first of type will attest. And the RFDS will be cranking over the hours far ahead of most PC24 operators so theyíll hit the problems first.

Fact is is ití appears to be a fine modern aircraft, extremely capable but not without some limitations. Every aircraft ever made has them.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 03:38
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post


A quick look at any of the PC 24 threads running reveals these two posters (or is it one) chirping up, crowing and wishing for the failure of the PC24. Be it rumours of airframe problems or needing to be an astronaut to fly one. They started back not long after it was announced.

I donít doubt for a minute that there will be teething troubles as any first of type will attest. And the RFDS will be cranking over the hours far ahead of most PC24 operators so theyíll hit the problems first.

Fact is is ití appears to be a fine modern aircraft, extremely capable but not without some limitations. Every aircraft ever made has them.
Well said.

The absolute crap spouted by one or two obviously either disgruntled ex-employees or competitors is pretty pathetic, really.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 07:21
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Folks,
I note that the next batch of assembly line positions have almost sold out, the "reservations" of several "Australian xsperts**" or the actual Australian experience had not dented the sales appeal of the aircraft, with, it appears, re-orders from satisfied batch one customers.
Clearly these customers are not heeding said AU PPRuNe xsperts.
Tootle pip!!

** For those not in the know: X is the unknown quantity and spert is a drip under pressure.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 07:36
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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LeadSled, talk on the street, is that a couple of Pilatus PC12 private pilot types are upgrading to the PC24 Jet.


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Old 17th Jul 2019, 08:33
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stationair8 View Post
LeadSled, talk on the street, is that a couple of Pilatus PC12 private pilot types are upgrading to the PC24 Jet.
Stationair8,
That does not surprise me, an upgrade from the PC 12 will be straightforward for any pilot who is reasonably competent.
The PC24 appears to me to be a delightfully simple and straightforward aeroplane, I would just love to get my hands on one as private transport ---- Lotto??
Now let's hear from the Xsperts.
Tootle pip!!
PS: Pilatus have a very long and consistent record of producing practical and long-lived aeroplanes, I have no doubt that the PC24 will be (already is) a worthy addition to the tradition.
Sadly, the only Pilatus time I have is on the piston Porter --- that is going back some, now.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 09:05
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
Stationair8,
That does not surprise me, an upgrade from the PC 12 will be straightforward for any pilot who is reasonably competent.
The PC24 appears to me to be a delightfully simple and straightforward aeroplane, I would just love to get my hands on one as private transport ---- Lotto??
Now let's hear from the Xsperts.
Tootle pip!!.
Not entirely the case - the instructors at Flightsafety have sent more than a few pilots home halfway through the course, and the FAA examiner made it very clear indeed this is not an aircraft for your average private pilot wanting to jump into their first jet. At the end of the day this is a large, fairly high performance jet in single-pilot terms.
It is not a Citation Mustang, or Cirrus jet.

Having said that, it handles beautifully, has no real vices and any pilot who has a decent amount of time in a 12NG (for familiarity with the avionics) and is both a competent instrument pilot as well as a decent hand-flyer should be able to get through.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 10:39
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stationair8 View Post
LeadSled, talk on the street, is that a couple of Pilatus PC12 private pilot types are upgrading to the PC24 Jet.


Someone told me a few years back that Simon Hackett had one on order.

There was also talk of Lindsay Fox buying one at the Avalon Airshow.

All hearsay of course :-)
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 14:38
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rcoight View Post
Having said that, it handles beautifully, has no real vices and any pilot who has a decent amount of time in a 12NG (for familiarity with the avionics) and is both a competent instrument pilot as well as a decent hand-flyer should be able to get through.
Isn't that what I said??
As for some of the other comments attributed to FlightSafety, big it is not, it is very marginally faster than a Mustang around the circuit, just a couple of knots, a little faster at high levels, and last time I noticed, owners of aircraft doing the factory supplied course don't get "sent home". It is certainly no more technically difficult than the Mustang, as in NOT.
There are facilities and systems to handle pilots who are not full time professional pilots with existing jet/turboprop experience, and need more than the minimum time, either in the sim. or in the aircraft.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 00:34
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Don’t worry LeadSled, I am due to win the big Powerball- so will be happy to take you for a jaunt in my new Pilatus 24.

The PC24 will look good in the hangar next to the new Porter.




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Old 18th Jul 2019, 00:35
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
Isn't that what I said??
As for some of the other comments attributed to FlightSafety, big it is not, it is very marginally faster than a Mustang around the circuit, just a couple of knots, a little faster at high levels, and last time I noticed, owners of aircraft doing the factory supplied course don't get "sent home". It is certainly no more technically difficult than the Mustang, as in NOT.
There are facilities and systems to handle pilots who are not full time professional pilots with existing jet/turboprop experience, and need more than the minimum time, either in the sim. or in the aircraft.
Tootle pip!!
I agreed with you that a competent and experienced PC12 pilot should have no problems.

If you read what I said, I said it was “big” etc. in single-pilot terms.
Compared to a Mustang, it is more than twice as heavy, has well over double the thrust, is up to 100 kts faster in the cruise and it most certainly does have systems that a Mustang does not.
When were you at Flightsafety? It would seem an odd thing for an instructor and an FAA check airman to make up to tell us all that a number of pilots have been told they are wasting their time and money after a couple of sims, and that we should not consider this as an entry-level Jet.
Anyway, whatever. I’m not interested in arguing, and only came on here to call out the BS from a couple of the naysayers.
It’s a great aircraft. Cheers.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 02:40
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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I can confirm thatís BS. Does that help?
Thanks, rcoight.

It seems that Western Section have not done a single gravel landing with their PC24s, whilst Central has done just the one. Why the apparent avoidance of gravel?
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 02:55
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FGD135 View Post
Thanks, rcoight.

It seems that Western Section have not done a single gravel landing with their PC24s, whilst Central has done just the one. Why the apparent avoidance of gravel?
No worries. I have no idea re WA section, but there's nothing I'm aware of that suggests we are avoiding gravel strips. Perhaps no gravel strip jobs have come up yet that needed the jet rather than the -12? We're only going to use the jet on jobs that need it, not the normal every day tasks.

Regarding the dirt landing by FMP, that was filmed re May 6/7. I subsequently flew it on May 9,10, and 13.
There was no issues caused by the dirt landing that grounded the aircraft for any period I'm aware of.
Cheers.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 03:39
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks, rcoight. Seems there is always lots of misinformation to contend with.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 05:15
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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I notice the US film has a "mudguard" deflector for dirt landings. Is this a new addition and do the Australian planes have one.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 06:04
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rcoight View Post
If you read what I said, I said it was ďbigĒ etc. in single-pilot terms.
Compared to a Mustang, it is more than twice as heavy, has well over double the thrust, is up to 100 kts faster in the cruise and it most certainly does have systems that a Mustang does not.
When were you at Flightsafety? It would seem an odd thing for an instructor and an FAA check airman to make up to tell us all that a number of pilots have been told they are wasting their time and money after a couple of sims, and that we should not consider this as an entry-level Jet.
Cheers.
rcoight,
When was I last at FlightSafety --- not recently, and I do know of pilots who have been sent back here --- which is more of a condemnation of AU pilot standards than anything else. None were "owners".

But I do have a deal of experience on aircraft of various sizes, all of which I had to demonstrate my ability to fly single handed (even when they were multi-crew aircraft, this was a company "thing" addressing unlikely but possible scenarios) and I do know the Mustang.

Anybody competent on the Mustang (or the PC12,) or any similar turboprop or jet) will, I am quite certain, have no problem on the PC-24. Obviously, my knowledge of the PC24 is theoretical, but it reads as a delightfully simple and straightforward aircraft. I would also suggest that person who is a designated Check Airman by FAA doesn't automatically make him/her an instant expert on what constitutes an entry level jet.

The differences in installed thrust or weight are neither here nor there, it is the book performance that counts, the handling of either will not be an issue. As I said, the speeds around the circuit are very similar. I would suggest that the differences in cruise speed are less significant, operationally, than many might assume ---- you just get from TOC to TOD a bit quicker.

Back to being "sent home" --- that is not how the owner/pilot who has just expended around AUD$13M is treated by Pilatus or any other similar manufacturer, re-read what I posted.

Tootle pip!!
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 06:38
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by harrryw View Post
I notice the US film has a "mudguard" deflector for dirt landings. Is this a new addition and do the Australian planes have one.
FMP has it. Don't know about the WA aircraft.
Last time I flew FGM (the Pilatus demonstrator) it did not have the kit, but for all I know it may have it now.

Last edited by rcoight; 18th Jul 2019 at 07:49. Reason: clarity
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 06:59
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
<stuff>
Righto, mate. Again, no argument. A competent pilot with decent PC12 time or other jet time should be fine.

It is, however, a fact that one owner placed his -24 on the market after failing to pass the course twice and giving up, and at least a couple of other pilots have been told they are wasting their time and money and to come back when they have more experience that would help them through the course.
I'm not suggesting this is unique to the -24 or that the -24 is some sort of space shuttle. I'd bet that happens from time to time on pretty much anything that requires a type rating.
Your comment on the FAA check airman is pretty disrespectful. This gentleman has flown everything from piston airliners to wide-body jets and practically every type of biz-jet imaginable up to and including Gulfstreams in an extraordinary career the likes of which most of us could only dream of. If he tells me that in his opinion the PC-24 should not be considered an entry level jet I'll listen to him. Especially as he's the guy who decides whether or not to sign me off!
Cheers
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 10:48
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Itís a single pilot swept wing Mach .7 or so, multi engined thing with a comprehensive suite of manuals, procedures and checklists/memory items etc that all need to be absorbed, rehearsed and demonstrated to the checkie. Itís no picnic..not everyone is cut out or current enough to pass the course
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