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Pilatus PC24

Old 25th Oct 2013, 10:44
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Pilatus PC24

Video: Pilatus PC-24 Business Jet Debut at NBAA - Videos Article

Capt Wally approved

RFDS one day?
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 11:07
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Great numbers, but it's all paper and mock ups at the moment!

If they get within cooee of those numbers it will be a great machine. Heard a rumour RFDS Western Ops are the launch customer! Any truth?

Reckon it'll be a long time though before we see one in our hangar...
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 11:14
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No idea HH, just looks like an interesting project and I figure that Pilatus have the ability to do what they say. They have a good record and one would assume are financially stable enough to see it through.

Where's Wally?
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 11:16
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HH, a colleague of mine once close to Pilatus told me it was designed specifically with Aus RFDS in mind.
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 12:21
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RFDS Western District has a problem with patient transfer from Pilbara/Kimberly districts to either Perth or Darwin. In a PC-12 it takes forever which is why they have toyed with the idea of the Piaggio Avanti for such missions. They have been utilising a Hawker for some time now which I understand is supplied and crewed by Rio Tinto but it can't do emergency evacuations being restricted to paved runways. A jet of their own that can operate into unimproved strips may be just be what they have been looking for.
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 13:05
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However fatigue is a big issue for Western Ops so I would have thought the PC24 would have to be considered. Its also Single Pilot.
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 16:20
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The PC24 will see these shores late 2017 early 2018. Expect to see at least 6 by 2019.
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 21:41
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With a MTOW of around 8,000kg's, I doubt the PC-24 will be single pilot operated, especially with the introduction down the track of the new rules CASA will be imposing on aeromedical operations, basically making them the same standard as RPT.

The PC-24 looks like a very nice jet. Perfectly suited to RFDS ops you would think.

However that cruise speed isn't exactly spectacular for a jet (no swept wing I'm guessing is what's holding it back). While it's all good and well for it to be able to take off and land in stuff all distance on dirt strips, RFDS don't nessecarily need a jet to do that. That's why they have things like PC-12's and B200's.

What would be better off, is a high speed jet that will serve sealed strips and can meet your B200's (or B350's down the track) or PC-12's and then transfer them to the major hospitals.

Still, it's a step in the right direction, :-).

morno
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 21:49
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The time lost in the descent, transfer, start up and climb would most of the time make patient delivery longer. I could be wrong.

The new rules is going to make life hard for the flying dr.
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 22:16
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From my time there, Plovett is on the pulse.

Yes Wally, cost is a big issue, but so is currently having the Kimberley crew stuck in Perth for a night as they've run out of hours and needing to send the Headland or Meeka crews to east Kimberley for a pickup.
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 00:03
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having these jets lying about that have limitations
What limitations? It's still only a mockup!! Umm, I guess that's a limitation!

At the moment, no one knows what's it's capable (or not capable) of.
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 01:22
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HH, a colleague of mine once close to Pilatus told me it was designed specifically with Aus RFDS in mind.
Makes sense monopole, on paper it does seem to fit all the criteria.
With a MTOW of around 8,000kg's, I doubt the PC-24 will be single pilot operated, especially with the introduction down the track of the new rules CASA will be imposing on aeromedical operations, basically making them the same standard as RPT.
8000 kg's will put it just under the cut off for larger aeroplanes under the new reg's, perfect for the RFDS. From my reading of the NPRM, it will not have too much effect on the RFDS's day to day operations, as in most areas they already comply.
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 03:57
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8000 kg's will put it just under the cut off for larger aeroplanes under the new reg's, perfect for the RFDS.
The announcement of the PC24 was also timed 1 week after the changes to FAR 23. They know exactly what they're doing.

There is still talk of an Aeromed section (as opposed to RPT MT), it's going to be a long road for the policy makers.

400kts (assuming thats a standard cruise) is not that much slower than other Jets in class but it's more then that, it's the sealevel cabin to 23,000ft (I can only imagine flogging about at 13,000 between the Pilbra and Perth isn't fun in the middle of summer), its the 30min time to 45,000, the short field, the unimproved strip, the door, the modular cabin, over and underwing fuel, common engines, ground power (assuming it can be certified without a pilot on board), one touch cockpit and full automation. They achieved the figures with the PC12, hopefully they can pull it off again with the PC24.
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 07:15
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Here is the good oil from Business and Commercial Aviation

And yes it is single pilot. CASA may have to get into 21st century on that one!

Pilatus Unveils the PC-24

Pilatus Aircraft Ltd. has finally unveiled the PC-24, a clean-sheet light-twin turbofan aircraft that will enter an already crowded market segment when it enters service in 2017. By then, there may be well over 7,500 light jets in service, including plenty of new models from Cessna, Embraer and Bombardier Learjet.
But, Pilatus believes the PC-24 will carve out a new niche it calls the “Versatile Jet segment,” since the all-new model will offer the short, soft-field versatility of the PC-12, a 51-in. by 49-in. rear cabin door, the cabin volume of a midsize aircraft and the cruise speed of a light jet. It will be priced at $8.9 million (2017 US dollars).
Pilatus believes the aircraft will find a home with cargo, medevac, commuter and even government special missions operators, along with its PC-12's historical customer base of high-net-worth individual owner-operators, air charter operators and small companies, among others.
Initial design studies began four to five years ago, says company chairman Oscar Schwenk told a crowd gathered for the mockup's unveiling at the European Business Aviation Convention and Exhibition (EBACE) in May, but “we've kept it very confidential.” Only a few days before the gathering in Geneva, were most sales distributors briefed on product details.
“We learned almost as much about the aircraft as the public at EBACE. I feel better about it now than before the unveiling,” says Pat Epps, head of Atlanta-based Epps Aviation, owner of Pilatus Center South. “It's six years behind the competition, but I think it will create a new niche with its 400+ kt. cruise speed and low maintenance burden. It's big. It will compete well.”
Epps says that while most PC-12 turboprops were sold to U.S. owner/operators, the PC-24 will likely do better outside the U.S., especially for service in Canada's Northwest Territories, China, Asia and Latin America.
Pilatus indeed did extensive market research before launching the new model, seeking inputs from large PC-12 fleet operators, among others.
“They sought advice from us,” says Peter Docking, aviation manager of Adelaide's Royal Flying Doctor Service, an organization that operates more than 30 PC-12s in Australia. “It's making a new niche, a little bit the same as the PC-12. The idea of a light jet with a cargo door is incredibly attractive to us. It's tough to get stretcher patients into and out of a passenger door of most light jets.”

Docking says he's also worked in the mining industry, a market segment that historically has operated STOL turboprops from “rudimentary dirt strips” during the early phases of new mine development. The PC-24 is designed to perform the same mission as smaller turboprops, carrying as many as ten passengers in a high-density seating configuration. “These aircraft fly in and fly out with shift changes. I think Pilatus is really onto something good. PC-24 is a vast improvement over a King Air or a PC-12.”
Conservative, Evolutionary DesignThe newest Pilatus is the firm's first production twin, and a twin turbofan at that. High-strength aluminum alloys will be used for the primary airframe. Similar to the company's PC-21 advanced military trainer, it will have a low-drag airfoil that was developed in-house. The PC-24 will be capable of both high-altitude, high-speed cruise and operating out of short fields. Notably, the aircraft will be fitted with dual-wheel main gear with low-pressure tires and anti-skid brakes.
To achieve the balance of high- and low-speed performance, the wing will have modest sweep, inboard and outboard fowler flaps and large ground spoilers. Estimated stall speed at maximum landing weight is 81 kt. and projected landing distance is 2,525 ft. Standard takeoff field length is 2,690 ft. and 4,430 ft. when departing BCA's 5,000- ft. elevation, ISA+20C airport. That kind of short runway performance will enable it to use 1,300 more airports around the world than the Phenom 300.
“It's not easy to fly to 450 and have the spoilers and flaps needed for short field operations,” says Schwenk.
Extensive wind tunnel tests were conducted in Prague, at the National Aerospace Laboratory of the Netherlands and at RUAG's facility in Switzerland. The final wind tunnel results weren't compiled until early May 2013.
Being able to operate out of short, unpaved landing fields will give the PC-24 access to 21,000 more runways around the world than aircraft limited to using paved runways. A gravel kit will be fitted to the nosewheel to deflect debris away from the engine inlets and the wing flaps will be armored for protection from debris thrown back by the main landing gear.
The 501-cu.-ft. cabin is 5.1 ft. high, 5.6 ft. wide and 23 ft. long from the cockpit to cabin partition to the aft pressure bulkhead. The cabin windows will be the largest in the midsize jet class. Maximum cabin altitude is 8,000 ft. at the aircraft's 45,000- ft. maximum cruising altitude. There is a fully enclosed, forward cabin, externally serviced lavatory and 51.0-90.0 cu. ft. of internal luggage capacity, depending placement of the aft cabin partition.
Interior volume will be bigger than Citation XLS+, but smaller than that of the Hawker 900XP. Unlike most midsize aircraft, though, it will have a flat floor plus both a forward passenger and rear cargo door. Fitting the aircraft with a dropped aisle would have offered more center aisle headroom, but it would have hindered cargo handling.
Six cabin layouts will be offered, accommodating six to eight passengers in executive configuration, ten passengers in commuter seating, pure cargo configuration and half passenger/half cargo combi.



Preliminary Performance Projections
The PC-24 is designed to climb directly to FL450 in 30 min., Schwenk asserts, and it will have a maximum cruise speed of 425 kt. true at FL300. Maximum payload is 2,500 lb. and the aircraft will have a tanks-full payload of 915 lb., enabling it to fly four passengers 1,950 nm at long-range cruise. Schwenk declined to provide estimated cruise performance at FL 450, but it's likely that it will be close to 400-410 kt. true while having fuel flows slightly greater than Citation CJ4 based upon the two aircraft having virtually the same engines, along with similar maximum range. The PC-24 is to have 125-lb. greater fuel capacity than the CJ4.
Williams International will supply the propulsion system, including the two FJ44-4A turbofans, rated at 3,400 lb. thrust for takeoff. APR will boost thrust to 3,600 lb. with a flat rating of ISA+11C. Williams also is engineering a new noise attenuating inlet for the nacelle along with a passive thrust vectoring system that will use Coanda effect to deflect thrust 2-3 deg. upward at takeoff for better aircraft pitch control response. And it is developing a proprietary low idle speed mode that will enable the right engine to serve as a low noise APU.
Pilatus's ACE flight deck, short for Advanced Cockpit Environment, will feature Honeywell's second-generation APEX avionics suite, including four 12-in., landscape configuration displays in a T configuration, a Laseref IRS, an AHRS, EGPWS and TCAS II, plus autothrottles, LPV approach and graphical flight planning. RNP 0.3 navigation, and Honeywell's SmartView synthetic vision will be optional.
Parts for the aircraft are now being fabricated in Stans. Roll-out is slated for mid-2014 and first flight should occur in late 2014. Three aircraft will be used in a 2,500-hr. development program, which is intended to result in FAA and EASA certification in early 2017, followed thereafter by entry into service.
Schwenk says that several potential customers wanted to put down deposits on the aircraft, but he's holding off until roll-out of the first prototype in mid-2014. He says he's leery of over promising and under delivering on performance. By the time roll-out occurs, he'll have hard numbers from his engineers. Then, he'll start making guarantees and taking non-refundable deposits.
“Pilatus always has been a trend setter,” says Schwenk, promising his company's newest aircraft will “be in a class of its own.”
Pilatus launched the versatile PC-12 into what then seemed a dubious market, but has now delivered in excess of 1,100 of the single-engine turboprop model. Now the PC-24 potentially could become one of the most innovative light jets yet to enter its similarly ill-defined market segment. Watch for updates in upcoming issues of BCA.

Pilatus PC-24 Preliminary SpecificationsEquipped PriceEquipped Price$8,900,000 (2017 U.S. dollars)
CharacteristicsWing Loading 53.1
Power Loading2.6
Noise (EPNdB)NA/NA/NA
Seating1+7/11
Dimensions (ft./m) ExternalLength55.2/16.8Height17.3/5.3Span55.8/17.0InternalLength23.0/7.0Height5.1/1.6Width (Maximum)5.6/1.7Width (Floor)3.9/1.2
Weights (lb./kg)
Max Ramp 17,750/8,051
Max Takeoff 17,650/8,006
Max Landing16,250/7,371
Zero Fuel13,450/6,101c
BOW10,950/4,967
Max Payload2,500/1,134
Useful Load6,800/3,084
Executive Payload1,200/544
Max Fuel5,953/2,700
Payload With Max Fuel 847/384
Fuel With Max Payload4,300/1,950
Fuel With Executive Payload5,600/2,540
ThrustEngines2 Williams Intl. FJ44-4A
Normal Takeoff Thrust (lb.)3,400* TBO (hr.)5,000
LimitsMmoNAFL/VmoNA
PSI 8.8
ClimbTime to FL 370
NAFAR Part 25 OEI rate (fpm)NA/NAFAR Part 25 OEI gradient (ft./nm)NA/NA
Ceilings (ft./m) Certificated45,000/13,716
All-Engine Service45,000/13,716
Engine-Out Service26,000/7,925*3,600-lb. thrust APR rating

Last edited by ga_trojan; 26th Oct 2013 at 07:20.
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Old 27th Oct 2013, 02:04
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A small problem to overcome will be taking enough fuel to return to Perth from a strip with no fuel. 1.5 hours out 1.5 back and you start getting into the larger aircraft area. Thats why the hawker is such a good machine. It can go anywhere in the Pilbara or even Broome with return fuel.

I guess the biggest benefit will be if it has a similar MTOW as its MLW then you will be able to do quick hop and pops and carry plenty of gas with you.

Looking at the numbers though 5900 lbs should be plenty of gas for Perth return. As a guess I would say 1800 lbs out and 1800 lbs in. It will be just a question of how much equipment and stuff you can take.
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Old 27th Oct 2013, 05:15
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These are probably the two most important figures:
Max Payload 2,500/1,134
Fuel With Max Payload 4,300/1,950
With RFDS fit outs weighing in at anything up to 500kg and allowing for two crew (and sundry gear), it should be able to uplift around 2300kg of fuel (5070 lbs). If ik978's fuel burn figures are correct it will be a very useful machine.

PS: Not sure why they haven't gone B350's in WA, marginally quicker than a B200 (but makes a significant difference on sectors over 300nm), can carry a full load and enough fuel to outlast your bladder every single time!
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Old 28th Oct 2013, 14:20
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Plenty of hype about the machine being capable of "short strips", but will CASA allow this for the RFDS?

As the rules currently stand, RPT and CHTR in this aircraft require the operator to increase required landing distances by a factor of 1.67 - moving the quoted 800 metre landing distances more into the 1,300 - 1,400 metre range.

How many gravel strips are that long? Very few. The machine would thus be limited to only the major aerodromes, which have sealed surfaces anyway.

So, as an aspect of the new rules coming in December, will CASA require a 1.67 factor applied to the landing distances for RFDS ops?

Yes, I believe, given that their ops are back-of-the-clock with most of the RFDS pilots being younger guys, with the PC24 being their first jet.

With the aircraft limited to major aerodromes, the case for basing them at the remote bases becomes very, very weak.
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Old 28th Oct 2013, 23:56
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How many gravel strips are that long? Very few. The machine would thus be limited to only the major aerodromes, which have sealed surfaces anyway.
Most gravel runways and all mine sites in WA and many in the NT are easily that long. Certainly won't be a show stopper for Western Ops guys.

Plenty of hype about the machine being capable of "short strips", but will CASA allow this for the RFDS?
Well CASA might have to enter into the real world!! It will be a major embarrassment and there will be alot of political pressure applied if CASA start to block a PC24. I cannot see the Nationals letting CASA get away with to much if the RFDS come and show them the new Jet they want for country people, but CASA won't approve the certifictaion criteria despite every other authority in the world approving it.

Yes, I believe, given that their ops are back-of-the-clock with most of the RFDS pilots being younger guys, with the PC24 being their first jet.
Yeah and so what? Guys in the airforce fly their first jet at 100 hours. If you can fly the PC12 well I'm sure you cna adjust to the PC24.
It will be the old crustys in management that I would be worried about.

Last edited by ga_trojan; 28th Oct 2013 at 23:57.
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Old 29th Oct 2013, 03:56
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Dunno Wally, I think there may even already be a couple of orders (at least serious expressions of interest when they open the order book anyway) for these things by RFDS.

Just look at how popular the PC-12 has been for RFDS (your old section excluded, ).

Not a matter of IF, but a matter of WHEN.

morno
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Old 29th Oct 2013, 04:03
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with most of the RFDS pilots being younger guys,
Average age where I work around 47ish, with ages ranging from 27-65!
'FGD' touched on another area that I haven't added in my previous posts as there's so many hurdles in this field, the 20.7.1B for A/C Abv 5.7t. The B350's have their limitations & so will the PC's not insurmountable but sure do add to the boffins decision making process as to what to buy for Aeromed Ops.
Come the new reg's, there will be no above 5700kg, nor 20.7.1B. Small aircraft will become those below 8618kg, which will include B350 and the proposed PC-24. At this stage the waters are very muddy with regard to performance requirements for aircraft sitting between 5700kg & 8618kg.

I anticipate that Aeromedical operators (and the RFDS in particular), will be looking to continue operating as they have for many years. I can't see the regulator imposing restrictions that will reduce, or hinder the present services available. Given the move to risk based safety, I would imagine that aeromedical operators will be able to operate as they do presently, provided they can prove a safety case for operations which fall outside, or that will be restricted by the new regulations.
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